[Boss Rockius]

Saviour :
You have overestimated MNK, good NIN, THF, BLM, and RDM can kill lvl 75 MNK likes nothing

I'm sorry but I greatly disagree with this.

First off, BLM is exempt. A melee 1v1 with a BLM is just a painful thing to see. If the first Bind or Gravity is resisted, the BLM is dead. If it sticks, the melee is dead. The fight either ends with the BLM running around getting hit, or the melee in one spot getting nuked. If the melee has TP before hand, the fight is over before it begins. If items are disallowed, the melee is at a disadvantage. It just ain't cool.

Now onto NIN, THF and RDM. A NIN, maybe I can see that working. With some debuff luck and the right gear, they can probally produce enough damage to get the MNK down before they drop themselves.

For THF, I don't see it happening unless the MNK didn't poison himself pre-fight. ONE Asuran Fists will get the job done. If they survive the hits to 100% I mean. The only spike damage a THF has is WS and SA/TA. TA is null in a 1v1 situation, and SA need to have the person slept to get it done. Or Hide. But just like Provoke, Chi Blast takes that down before it becomes a threat. Dancing Edge does like 300-400 max, no SA. Regardless if that's powerful enough to kill a MNK or not, remember you have to get that TP before the MNK does. And a MNK has crazy speed.

Now RDM is completely overrated. They don't have the stopping power to get the job done. In addition to the fact they have to have their buffs up just so they don't die during the fight. BTW, speaking about RDM/NIN here. If we're talking about a mage style RDM, they're coupled with the BLM comment above. I've 1v1 with RDMs aswell. The only RDM type that has the power to get the job done is Kraken Club RDMs. Those en- spells do some nice damage when all the numbers are added up. But please, I DARE you to use a Kraken Club on a MNK. It's basically suicide.

There's a reason why I rated a MNK as high as they are. Look at the gear a MNK can wear. Then there's the Black Belt. It has -% physical damage in addition to STR and Haste. VIT, Counter, Kick Attacks in addition to the speed, etc. And if we're talking about a decked out (Job) vs. a MNK, let's deck the MNK out too. By then they have no chance. And realize a MNK has broken HP in addition to these skills.

[Kazikai]

NIN and THF wont be able to evade from RNG/NIN's attacks no matter how they stack their evasions.

Perfect Dodge!!

[Elites]

blah yeah ok, i dont even feel like reading your entire posts anymore because now your sounding more ridiculous than before. One round of KC + Francisca as fast as sam's meditate? r o f l m a o. Jesus christ, your giving the accuracy bonus like it'll hit anything rofl. A thief or nin will fuck up a ranger any day, rng can't easily rip through thf's shadows you retard. I've seen a thief at 87 hp left blink tanking kill a 75% hp ninja, thats how sick their evasion is. I don't care what you wear, they can blink tank your hellfire all day. Infact go make a video and show us of you vs a thf or nin and we want to see you rip their shadows with your "Pimp" accuracy buddy. /Drg gives accuracy bonus as well so your wrong on rng/nin being the "Best" combo. Mnk/Drg > you.

[Boss Rockius]

[quote]Saviour :
I cant agree, you are bring up the issue of chicken and egg.

If you didnt noticed, I did said good players, I didnt say all players.[/quote]
Ok, well in that case I'm gonna use a decked out MNK.

Let me ask you, what is best BLM setup in no cap Ballista? I would suggest BLM/RDm with BLM JSE, Earth Staff, Chevloet Cape, Jelly Ring, Bat Earring x 2, Fish Mithkabob, and Blind Potions. Meele one shot BLM with this setup? Good luck. Galka MNK, maybe, with that incredible amount of HP. Dont under estiamate 30% Physical Reduction and Phalanx combined, althought BLM may not have high enhancing magic skill like RDM did. One shot such BLM is not going to be easy even you have TP to begin with. It is about character controlling for BLM with careful timing of Stun, Sleepga, Bind, and Gravity. Do you know how fast can BLM/RDM cast with Rostrum Pumps? Not to mention that fast cast earring from limbus. [/quote]
Ok, if items are allowed, a mere Poison potion beforehand will remedy the BLM's biggest threat. And a cath for whatever a BLM casts. Also, also mage loading up on physical DMG-% is like a NIN with evasion gear. Regardless, they're gonna get hit hard. With capped Criticals and Destroyers, the BLM is gonna get fucked up. I don't care how much -% you got. Stack on enough and it may start to help, but that's taking away from your power. And not to mention a MNK's speed. And remember, this is -% on an already low base defense.

And hey, if we're getting outlandish to the point of Limbus items, Brutal Earring, those resist bind and Gravity nonsense, etc. You just shot the hypothetical BLM in the foot. Let's leave mages out of this. Melee on melee is where the debates are at. There's too much circumstance for those.

[quote]For the case of NIN, NIN/WAR may have to bid on their luck about their debuffing but not really it is one side MNK > NIN. MNK will eating NIN/WAR only because of counterstance, since NIN dont have high damage as other DDs and counterstance will just do the trick. Yet, who said NIN/WAR has to stand there meeleing MNK like an idiot and not allow to kiting MNK around and damaging MNK with elemental ninjatsus? It is still 1 v 1.

For NIN/RNG and NIN/THF, they probably can just fighting MNK face to face. NIN/THF with help from evasion bonus trait and ninjatsu debuffing and spaming elemental ninjatsus, the odd is usually against MNK. Do you know what kills MNK? Paralyze and Slow. Chakara unable to get rid of slow. Chakara may be able to get rid of paralyze but chance is 50/50 that chakara will be cancel because of paralyze. Chakara has 5 min recasting, but Hojo, Kurayami and Jabaku do not. Who said it is one side MNK > NIN at ballista?[/quote]
No. Everytime I fight a NIN, I always get debuffed. Yet most of the time I still win, wanna know why? Because they NIN doesn't produce enough damage to get the job done before I do. I'm a Warrior with a merited axe. That is not my A+ weapon. MNKs that merit H2H are meritting their A+ weapon in addition to flat out being faster than I could hope to be. I'll use a MNK/WAR for this situation. Because if it was a MNK/SAM this would be overkill.

NIN/RNG. I guess he's throwing Shurikens right? I guess we're gonna be unrealistic and say he's barraging those ludacriously expensive high DMG ones too, right? Let's try to be slightly realistic here. A NIN could throw a ton of god winds, but it's so reckless it's just not gonna happen in a Ballista. Atleast not often enough to legitimize them beating a MNK all the time. And anything less than the HQ stuff ain't enough. But let's let this one go and agree to disagree.

[quote]NIN/RNG, I personally have won 1 v 1 match vs Galka MNK at lvl 60 and Taru MNK at no cap as NIN/RNG before. One shot both MNKs 45 secs after fight starts. Why? Counterstance. Barrage did over 700 damages on them because their defense drop to almost 0 and slug shot just finish the fight so quick. If they choose not to counterstance, it gives NIN/RNG even better chance without worrying their attacks got counters.[/quote]
If that's all your barrage did with counterstance to a Taru MNK, I take back what I said earlier. MNK wins this combo too.

NIN/THF no. Didn't you listen to the last poster? Evasion is overrated in Ballista. You may evade the subpar players, but to those with merits, you've just screwed yourself. And trust me, I've felt the difference. A Ninja that doesn't have /WAR(or /DRK I suppose) hits noticeably less. I'm a Warrior, one of the 3 tank classes. Sadly a decked out MNK takes the same damage I do in Ballista. Maybe less thanks to Guard. Infact, no. Let's be unrealistic again. This MNK has capped guard. gg NIN, you lost. Even with Slow, Paralyze and etc, a MNK will get through those shadows and a MNK will hit that NIN. Provoke will stop casting. /SAM will just mess him up with Asuran Fists soon as shadow is done. /NIN can go fuck itself. /NIN is for pussies.


[quote]For RDM, the most aggreesive RDM at all cap is RDM/BLM, nevers RDM/NIN. RDM/NIN makes themselves vulnerable to other mages by keep engaging, and there is a deadly casting delay once RDM is in engagement.


MNK vs good RDM/BLM it is just matter of time MNK got slow nuked to death by RDM. Let forget about AF2 RDm. Both MNK/WAR and MNK/NIN did 0 damages to RDM with Earth Staff, Enhancing torque, Augmenting earring, Jelly Ring, Chevolet Cape, and Fish Mithkabot. That including both Asuran Fist and Hundred Fist. MNK/WAR may doing little better because they /war on Asuran Fist that able to deal max 100-200 damages, but they would still hiting 0 for 100 fist. As long as you cant one shot RDM, RDM usually able to recover.[/quote]
No. Just no. Within I'd say 3-5 attack rounds, any and all buffs the RDM has will be broken. Asuran Fists will rule the guy, and with Destroyers and critical hit merits, the RDM will get schooled badly. I've seen firsthand how often critical merits and Destroyers go off. Put it this way: It's rarer for them not to go off. And a RDM's most deadly buff is those paralyzing spike stuff. That paralyze lingers. But the Stoneskin and Phalanx, that is a joke. If the RDM stands there long enough a melee to hit, within a few attack rounds, they will be broken. I speak of this first hand.

[quote]I typed too much, dont want spend more time on THF since it is all about character controlling and how you make up your gear set up. If you are interest, you can PM me.[/quote]
Not that interested. Only reason I'm replying is because it's my topic. Also chances are the MNK has this one too. But please, I'd love to see what debate you have for a THF winning this.






Now I understand what your trying to do, but when the players are of equal skill and resources, the MNK always has the advantage.

Guard completely buttfucks physical attacks. I don't like to speak with ego but I am not a subpar WAR. Yet a MNK that doesn't even have capped Guard blocked for 0 once. Effing zero. This is an axe we're talking about. 50 DMG at max potential. That is noteworthy.

Counter. Nothing special needs to be done, they just gotta be looking at you. Not an ability, just a job trait. A job trait that can be meritted. So in addition to them hitting you, they can also hit you on your own turn. It also eats shadows.

Dodge and Focus. Enhancing abilities with no reprecussions.

Max HP Boost. This is just wrong. A MNK can break 2k HP without any food. In Ballista ALL damage is lowered. I didn't have time to test so I didn't post it in my guide, but I believe my Spirit's Within was gimped. So you wont hit a MNK nearly as hard as you should. So in addition to him messing you up, he's messing you up for the same, if not more. And he has more HP than you.

Hundred Fists. Since you brought it up, you are not beating a MNK that did Hundred Fists. Want me to name some jobs that can?

WAR: If Mighty Strikes and has TP beforehand. And even then, it's luck.

WHM: lol

BLM: If you get Stun off or some form of sleep sticks. If you Gravity or Manafont your dead already.

RDM: I'd say Chainspell is more deadly than 100F.

THF: For obvious reasons.

PLD: " "

DRK: I'd love to see Souleater and Bloodweapon w/ Kraken vs. 100F. Never seen it before, wont comment.

BST: See WHM.

BRD: Under the assumption the MNK used Poison Pot beforehand, no, this guy is smoked.

RNG: No.

SAM: Tachi: Hobaku for Stun > Gekko > Hope you get the kill before Asuran Fists or you're flat out overwhelmed.

NIN: If you Mijin, you lost the fight.

DRG: Don't have much experience with Spirit Surge.

SMN: No.

100F is easily one of the best 2hrs in the game. Easily. To suggest a RDM can fight through it without Chainspell or Support is insane.

And please can someone other than the basic posters jump in this debate? Someone has to have some insight on this. Or fight hand experience.

[Kauna]

DRK: I'd love to see Souleater and Bloodweapon w/ Kraken vs. 100F. Never seen it before, wont comment.

I've participated in and won this fight, although I did use Hundred Fists a split second before the drk used souleater/blood weapon. And if the drk had mp to stun me, he probably would have won. I dunno, it would be close.

Spirit Surge is powerful, but I don't think it could withstand Hundred Fists, unless the wyvern had enough tp for you to SC with. Even then, it's much like what you wrote for sam: If you don't kill the monk with it quickly, you're probaby dead. Then again, I've never fought a dragoon who used it; I'm speaking from my own experience with Spirit Surge.

[Stegan]

No. Just no. Within I'd say 3-5 attack rounds, any and all buffs the RDM has will be broken. Asuran Fists will rule the guy, and with Destroyers and critical hit merits, the RDM will get schooled badly. I've seen firsthand how often critical merits and Destroyers go off. Put it this way: It's rarer for them not to go off. And a RDM's most deadly buff is those paralyzing spike stuff. That paralyze lingers. But the Stoneskin and Phalanx, that is a joke. If the RDM stands there long enough a melee to hit, within a few attack rounds, they will be broken. I speak of this first hand.

stoneskin takes damage exactly like the RDM beneath it would. meaning it takes damage based on DEF/VIT. most RDM you're fighting are probably not geared for max DEF/VIT, or not subbing WAR.

also, the only buffs you can actually 'break' are stoneskin or utsusemi. unless you have some means of Dispel? Phalanx, Protect, Spikes, Haste, Refresh are all on timers. you can not break them with damage.

[Ketaru]

Boss Rockius, saying MNK would murderize another job 1 on 1 is all well and good. But I just looked at your first post regarding the guide and only presenting information about how they are good 1 on 1 defeats the purpose of Nationals Ballista (which is what your guide seems to be geared towards).

MNKs pour their all into being able to taking negligent players. Stoneskin/Phalanx only lasts about 5 rounds, I grant you that. It is highly overrated. I don't use VIT/DEF gear and I don't sub /WAR, so I'm very cognitive on how shortlived it really is. So much so that, when I'm within the safety of my team, I manually remove it even if it is still up and recast a fresh one. But 5 rounds is enough time for a RDM to make it behind his team beyond the reach of a MNK that doesn't want to be swarmed. And there is almost nothing MNK has at their disposal to stop me. (while I'm at it, they didn't get any TP from me either because Stoneskin stopped just those few rounds. Apply as appropriate for jobs that rely more on shadows).

I won't speak for the RDM/WARs. They may very well be a formidable survival unit. But for the rest of the RDMs out there that are simply support, I'm sure they all know that Stoneskin/Phalanx doesn't give them the ability to simply stand still and take abuse.

And MNKs do great in 1 on 1. It's a good thing too, because none of their innate abilities can target their teammates. They can't cure their teammates. They can't boost their attack/defense. They can't naturally Provoke an enemy off a fellow teammate. All their innate abilities are for them and them alone.

And MNKs have the survivability. But unless the MNK has gotten themself into a compromising position that he will not be able to get out of, nobody is seriously going to make a dedicated effort to kill the MNK exclusively anyway. And if they do get hit, you implied it yourself, it was probably just to build TP off of.

So while MNKs are great at solo play, I think your description of the "Cons" of MNK need a little adjustment. I'm not going to argue with what you guys think a MNK can beat mano o mano. But that isn't what nationals ballista is about. So I would strongly consider changing your description of MNK a bit. Their Pro is, just as you said " Speed, power, strong closer, a ton of HP, a host of survival techniques and the ability to sub almost anything." But there is a Con in that they very hardly have the versatility that many, many, many other jobs have. MNKs are extremely powerful, but they are hardly the godly job that people make them out to be.

[Ketaru]

I know what you are saying (though I do not sub BLM so Sleepga is more or less moot). And I was speaking for RDM in general, not just those that go for damage reduction. I was just admitting that it is true Stoneskin/Phalanx, on a standard setup is overrated, but sufficient to get the job done.

With my playing style, I don't think I could ever kill a MNK. So I don't bother trying to go straight up against them unless they directly want to fight me solo in Diorama (but in there, things are far more in my control than in Nationals). So if I can't kill a MNK, I can make them less dangerous at least (via those spells you are mentioning). Because, really, a MNK that isn't subbing NIN is wearing a Kirin's Osode with bright yellow letters painted on the back "Bind me, I don't mind." Of course, when I take a MNK on 1 on 1 (like in Diorama), I do not hesitate to stack every debuff I can on them.

The point I was trying to get at in the post is that MNKs really are not as infallible as people (and the initial Guide of this post) make them out to be.

[Boss Rockius]

Ketaru :
Boss Rockius, saying MNK would murderize another job 1 on 1 is all well and good. But I just looked at your first post regarding the guide and only presenting information about how they are good 1 on 1 defeats the purpose of Nationals Ballista (which is what your guide seems to be geared towards).

You have a point. However when I was going through the individual jobs, I was listing their pros and cons on the battlefield as a stand alone. For that is the most accurate way to tell their power. Of course 1v1 defeats the purpose of a National, but ya gotta know how powerful the job is period, ya know?

MNKs pour their all into being able to taking negligent players. Stoneskin/Phalanx only lasts about 5 rounds, I grant you that. It is highly overrated. I don't use VIT/DEF gear and I don't sub /WAR, so I'm very cognitive on how shortlived it really is. So much so that, when I'm within the safety of my team, I manually remove it even if it is still up and recast a fresh one. But 5 rounds is enough time for a RDM to make it behind his team beyond the reach of a MNK that doesn't want to be swarmed. And there is almost nothing MNK has at their disposal to stop me. (while I'm at it, they didn't get any TP from me either because Stoneskin stopped just those few rounds. Apply as appropriate for jobs that rely more on shadows).

I won't speak for the RDM/WARs. They may very well be a formidable survival unit. But for the rest of the RDMs out there that are simply support, I'm sure they all know that Stoneskin/Phalanx doesn't give them the ability to simply stand still and take abuse.

And MNKs do great in 1 on 1. It's a good thing too, because none of their innate abilities can target their teammates. They can't cure their teammates. They can't boost their attack/defense. They can't naturally Provoke an enemy off a fellow teammate. All their innate abilities are for them and them alone.

And MNKs have the survivability. But unless the MNK has gotten themself into a compromising position that he will not be able to get out of, nobody is seriously going to make a dedicated effort to kill the MNK exclusively anyway. And if they do get hit, you implied it yourself, it was probably just to build TP off of.

So while MNKs are great at solo play, I think your description of the "Cons" of MNK need a little adjustment. I'm not going to argue with what you guys think a MNK can beat mano o mano. But that isn't what nationals ballista is about. So I would strongly consider changing your description of MNK a bit. Their Pro is, just as you said " Speed, power, strong closer, a ton of HP, a host of survival techniques and the ability to sub almost anything." But there is a Con in that they very hardly have the versatility that many, many, many other jobs have. MNKs are extremely powerful, but they are hardly the godly job that people make them out to be.

I agree with you. Your absolutely right. Strategy can overcome raw power. But what this dude is trying to say is that in a 1v1 situation these jobs will be a MNK, easily. That is the only reason why I was listing all the reasons why MNK smashes people up. Speaking of which..

Yes, defintiely yes. Ballista RDM will meriting enhancing magic, not debuffing magic, bucause debuffing is overrated and proven useless for most of time because of those Ballista Items. On my server, I made a lot enemies because of my playing strategy, all they doing was trying to find chance to kill me. I had a MNK/WAR 100 fist me and MNK/NIN ausran fist my RDM at same time, both did 0 damages. I have 1 on 1 serveral MNK/NIN and they all did 0 damages. Yes indeed, Stoneskin/Phalanx will not last forever, I repated, will not, it will be wore out; however, please do remember, I will not just stand there and let you hit me for fun. I will fight back and try to kill you too. Unless you able to one shot RDM, it is very likely for RDM to recover from bad situation. Especially, if I have chainspell ready, there is no really possible for you to kill me. Stoneskin/Phalanx has no recast once chainspell activated

I call BS.

I wrote out a nice little reply to all your posts, but deleted them when I read this.

Seriously, are you making this shit up?

[Allusernamestaken]

Quote
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Yes, defintiely yes. Ballista RDM will meriting enhancing magic, not debuffing magic, bucause debuffing is overrated and proven useless for most of time because of those Ballista Items. On my server, I made a lot enemies because of my playing strategy, all they doing was trying to find chance to kill me. I had a MNK/WAR 100 fist me and MNK/NIN ausran fist my RDM at same time, both did 0 damages. I have 1 on 1 serveral MNK/NIN and they all did 0 damages. Yes indeed, Stoneskin/Phalanx will not last forever, I repated, will not, it will be wore out; however, please do remember, I will not just stand there and let you hit me for fun. I will fight back and try to kill you too. Unless you able to one shot RDM, it is very likely for RDM to recover from bad situation. Especially, if I have chainspell ready, there is no really possible for you to kill me. Stoneskin/Phalanx has no recast once chainspell activated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I call BS.

I wrote out a nice little reply to all your posts, but deleted them when I read this.

Seriously, are you making this shit up?

No, ive seen rdms get ganged by 2-3 melee in ballista and those rdm which are geared with -phy% Def/Vit survive. They take a couple of rounds of attacks and just sprint away. if one of htem chooses to follow it would just depend on circumstances i.e if the melee has poison potion up[would be stupid to chase a rdm/blm without a poison potion and a lethe water at the ready].

On the topic of mnk vs rng. i wont comment much on this since it has been beaten to death but imo it would all boil down to the players behind the characters. Different people have different styles of playing ballista some are effective against some stratagies others will just downright fail.

[Elites]

Rofl, dude shut the fuck up and show SCREENS. You haven't proven SHIT, i call bullshit on all your dumb ass lies. What kind of monk Asuran's a RDM without taking off his skin and blink first. Stop giving so much credit to Kraken club, NO IT DOESENT GAIN TP FASTER THAN SAM'S MEDITATE. Are you fucked up in the head? Meditate is instant TP back REGARDLESS. What says Kraken doesent hit for 8 TIMES in a row, it could twice only or 3 or 4 times.

You remind me of those dumb fucks in ballista who gets those cheap ass kills off people running with 20% HP and claiming their the shit lmao. And don't even try to attack my job equips ok? I was done with RNG gear long before you have buddy and I obviously don't brag about that shit. Learn some fucking grammar, I have to read your bullshit twice before comprehending it. You obviously don't know how fast and strong a monk is with destroyers and black belt. Videos/Screens of your overrated rng vs a monk or else shut the fuck up.

[Elites]

Oh god, you really have no right talking about people's IQ with that sort of grammar. "Suck liks you" Huh? What?

Your assumptions are wrong as your every other post on this topic, I play rng for Tulia/Kirin every week(IMO the place this job really shines at). You dont need to express your jealousy over a overpowered melee job, we all heard it enough already. Either you hustle with it or be hustled.

[Ketaru]

The osode MNK/WAR with Berserk and Warcry can did max 100-200 damages on RDM, the stoneskin will be off but Phalanx will still be active. It is pretty easy for RDM to recast stoneskin without too much trouble as Aquaveil, Phalanxm and Icespike still in active.

True enough, didn't think that was really worth mentioning though. Figured if you playing team ballista, it isn't all that important to recast on the spot as it just to get away from whoever is attacking you. Of course, in solo play, RDM should do everything they can to keep Stoneskin up. And yes, with Aquaveil and Phalanx, it really does make a different regarding whether or not RDM will be interupted during casting.

I agree with you. Your absolutely right. Strategy can overcome raw power. But what this dude is trying to say is that in a 1v1 situation these jobs will be a MNK, easily. That is the only reason why I was listing all the reasons why MNK smashes people up. Speaking of which.

Largely, I was replying more to your original Guide. For the purpose of Nationals, I thought it would be more important to point out their lack of versatility as a "Con"

[Elites]

Okay dumbass, point out where i said perfect dodge can dodge range attacks. Stop confusing posters you retard. Don't try to use stupid pictures and comments when your fucking english is hurrendously funny to begin with.

Roflmao, "Good RDM/RDM can kill a MNK." Huh i didn't know you can use the same job as a sub too !
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Good DRK/SAM can kill a MNK. = Wrong
Good RDM/RDM can kill a MNK. = SAME JOB SUB ?? HAXXxx RDM/WAR however is the smarter choice.
Good RNG/NIN can kill a MNK. =Wrong
Good WHM/NIN can kill a MNK. = Wrong
Good BLM/RDM can kill a MNK. = Wrong
Good DRG/SAM can kill a MNK. = OK SURE LAwLZ
Good SAM/THF can kill a MNK. = ZOMG /THF IN BALLISTA OK WW
GooD NIN/WAR, NIN/THF, and NIN/RNG can kill a MNK. = Wrong
Good WAR/NIN can kill a MNK. = Wrong
Good PLD/DRK or PLD/NIN can kill a MNK. = pld/drk omg no , dont even talk you dumb ass.

You know why?

It is all because of the players that is controlling above jobs and their knowledge towoards MNK and their own job can allows them to play MNK like a puppet.

--- Bullshit , screens and proof please. Your ruining this topic so you might as well stop wasting my time already with your last resort assumptions.

And again with you and your Kraken club shit, yes a DRK with KC will own with 2H. This is debateable, dont talk out of your ass. You overestimate KC too much. When the fuck did i say MNK will own any job 1 vs 1? The only job that have the chance are RDM's.

Don't bring the player skill bullshit into this, your saying a good DRG/SAM can kill a MNK 1 on 1. Ok sherlock are you on fucking drugs ? Tell me how that is possible.