[ryolen]

Sup guys, I liked the thread Darkhell started for DRKs , so i decided to do one of my own, but for Summoners, Thief, Red Mage, and White Mage.

If you need any advice, or have any questions, just post them here.

I have experience as SMN for all caps, and for THF RDM and WHM only up until 60 cap, even tho i'm well aware of how they work in uncaped lol.:dozingoff

[RockNg]

I have seen some thf use sword dagger combo dagger off hand is this worth doing at 30 and 40 cap?

[xDarkassassinx]

sword only on THF until Dancing Edge(60 cap) SA fast blade with archers knife offhand ftw.

[RockNg]

Eh i dunno i like using single dagger even though i dont do the damage its fun to interupt cast time.

[ryolen]

As THF i always go to 30 and 40 cap with sword/dagger combo because daggers have very weak WSs until 50(Cyclone) and 60(Dancing Edge).

To answer your question.. Yes. It is worth it to main a sword and use a dagger in offhand because you still have your speed to remove utsusemi, but you get to use SA+ Fast Blade which is very nice for those caps.

Also note that most of our DMG will be comming from your Bloody Bolts(at least for me) and its also a great way to build TP and then use SA and Tonko: Itchi and go in for the kill with Fast Blade on someone u know has no shadows.

[RockNg]

Ah ok ill have to try it out sometime thanks Dark and ryolen.

[xDarkassassinx]

ryolen :
As THF i always go to 30 and 40 cap with sword/dagger combo because daggers have very weak WSs until 50(Cyclone) and 60(Dancing Edge).

To answer your question.. Yes. It is worth it to main a sword and use a dagger in offhand because you still have your speed to remove utsusemi, but you get to use SA+ Fast Blade which is very nice for those caps.

Also note that most of our DMG will be comming from your Bloody Bolts(at least for me) and its also a great way to build TP and then use SA and Tonko: Itchi and go in for the kill with Fast Blade on someone u know has no shadows.

you forget? SA goes through Shadowws

[Kauna]

How do you play a smn effectively in 40 cap?

[Traktor]

I'm sorry I'm not really a thief myself, but just wondering if this is the case....

Tonko works the same as hide? pre-assassin? I thought SA only worked from all angles with hide, and only with assassin trait.

Oh, and a summoner question... which avatar do you use most of the time? (So I can watch out for it hehe)

[xDarkassassinx]

SA works from all angles with hide ONLY. Assassin just makes TA crit w/o SA stacked.

[Eaglestrike]

Thf should sub war or mnk in capped fights and go with one dagger to interrupt cast time. The subs off a lot more unless you're 1 v 1ing someone (even still both subs offer good bonus')

[Jammin]

Sneak attack itself hits through Utsusemi, yes. Sneak attack + ws does not. I won't say /nin onry for thief in ballista.. but it really is better almost all the time. Tonko alone is a huge advantage (this is talking about Nation matches of course.) Shadows also stop bind/stun/gravity and all those other nightmare spells that end up killing you.

Many people argue that shadows are useless due to all the diaga spam in 60 and lower caps (when you don't have :Ni) but this is very untrue. Yes, they get wiped a lot, but they also save you from tons of single-target spells and force them to wipe your blinks before they can cast anything damaging to your gameplan. Swords are great for thf in 30/40 cap.. but I have merit'd dagger so I use dagger in 40/50 caps (my thf is level 52) for cyclone.. sneak attack itself is more than enough for when I need spike damage.. I'd rather maul an entire team from a distance (Cyclone is a ranged aoe weaponskill that deals damage even through shadows.)

I've seen /drg and /war both used in capped fights (usually in 50 cap for warrior sub, 30/40 for drg sub) but I was never really impressed.. you sacrifice a lot of your utility for double attack and berserk with one, and a lot of your utility for cute jump tricks with the other. Long-term, over the course of any given ballista match.. you want your shadows if there are any mages or dark knights running around to ruin your day. Giving up your invisibility also takes a good deal of the fun out of thief, in my opinion. Nothing is more fun than circling around into their backlines while invis'd and planting a dagger into the back of an unsuspecting soft target.

[Kauna]

It's all situational. /nin is good for thf and rng in the lower caps, but in the 30s and 40s I don't think it's very good for any other job. It really depends on the jobs of opposing team's members though. But pre 50, all /nin offers is tonko (which is easy to see through in smaller matches) and utsusemi (easy to deal with). The dual wield bonus is so minimal, you're better off with one weapon.

[Eaglestrike]

Any good ballista match will have a LOT of -ga spam. In uncapped matches I have issues keeping shadows up because they just keep spamming over and over and over.

And invis does shit for me most of the time. I went to SA+Flee+Hide and went to WS someone. I used all those abilities before I was near the current battle and before I could select a target someone had attacked and un-hid me. That isn't uncommon at all, people search for those that are invis often.

I haven't unlocked drg, so I haven't played with it. But SA+Jump to finish people off sounds pretty fun, you also get an attack bonus earlier.

I have played a defensive-based thief in 60 cap matches quite successfully. Full AF, spartan hoplon, defense food, defender = invincible from melee. If/when they get through your evasion they hit for little if anything at all. I've been hit by all the big ws's for less than 100 damage using that setup (raging, guillotine, rampage, penta, etc.)

I don't know what utility there is in 3 shadows that get wiped easily, if there are any decent mages out there they spam -ga's so after your first recast you have nothing for another 30s.

Also, pre-my defensive setup phase, I once went 2 v1 against two thf/nin's in 60 cap as my thf/war. I took one down and was on my way to finishing the other off when the first came back around (fighting near their respawn -.-) and killed me. Defender owns a number of jobs whenever you're in trouble. Even if you do get bound, defender can save your butt anyway. You'll still have the evasion, and with /war you can have a pretty decent defense rating too. And bloody bolts still drain for as much as they used to

[ryolen]

Kauna :
How do you play a smn effectively in 40 cap?

Hmm, k. SMN really arent too good for low ballista caps, but i'll just answer from my own experience.

40cap i believe we have Shivas sleepga, which is awsome to have, use it when the enemy team is distracted if your team has no AoE sleepers. You calso use the popluar choice, which is Ramuh's Thunderspark. It is AoE Damage+Paralyze, really nice bloodpact.

I only go to lower caps as SMN when i want limit points lol. So i tent to have a bit of fun by using a high DMG staff with accuracy and STR gear, just for fun tho lol. And chase ppl that are dying with ur staff and fenrir.You can also sub NIN to be able to go into battle and land a nice Thunderspark w/o dying right away. But i stil prefer whm sub until uncapped, then its rdm sub.

keep these things in mind,always...

Diabolos is almost impossible to sleep, it CAN be done, but very rarely. His Absolute Terror BP is freakin nuts, not sure if its 40 cap, but in gerneral, it drains up to 4 stats from everyone near him. Nightmare is not as good as Shiva's Sleepga imo because the range and accuarcy suck ass. Camisado adds gravity effect.

Fenrir has highest DoT DMG for all avatars, meaning he hits the hardest per hit. he also has dispelga for those annoying RDMs/WHMs(i play both so i should know lol)

Leviathans tailwhip adds gravity effect. He also has slowga, not too usuful but still fun to use lol.

Shiva has Sleepga which is very nice to use on an unsuspected enemy. In 50 cap, Double Slap has done 400+ on certain jobs, really nice BP as well.

Garuda is worthless until uncapped when u start busting out 800+ Predator Claws and 1-shotting tarus and mages =O

Ramuh has 2 nice things, Thunderspark(AoE DMG+Paralyze), and Shock Strike, minimal DMG + Stun, nice to stop ppl drom getting away =O

Carby is nice in 60 cap actually lol. i make him chase a player thats almost dead, then i invis myself and follow carby, when i catch up, i land a Meteorite andet GB =)

Titan is also blah, i find myself not usuing him ver much because Earthen Ward is nice, but half the time, your team is never around for it, so it becomes a waste of MP, i prefer to sleepga or thunderspark.

Ifirt is another usless one, i never EVER use him in ballista. UNLESS theres someone wearing bombqueen ring....

Notice i tried to stay away from uncaped advice or party buffs/heals since thos are pretty much self explanitory.. if u have any more questions just ask.

[Jammin]

Well, I won't start a debate, ballista is all about having fun, and if /nin isn't getting the job done for you, by all means sub something that's working. On the invis thing eagle.. you say it does nothing for you, and I agree in smaller matches it's almost worthless (depending on quality of opponent.) However, in big matches (the ones you were talking about) I find it very very powerful.. the trick is to avoid people using /targetopp (which targets the nearest opponent regardless of invis status.) I suspect this is how people were finding you so fast and stopping your hidden attacks. The solution to this one is easy.. time your invis'd attacks with melee's rushing in and out for tp.. so that /targetopp targets them and not you... until it's too late. You can also circle in from a side or even behind and do run-throughs on your opponent. In big (10 on 10 or more) matches I rarely get seen until it's too late.. and even when I'm having a match where it's not working as well as I want I stick with it.. because they always let their gaurd down eventually.

[ryolen]

I agree with Jammin, we ballista together quite a bit.

Ballista is abour fun, do w/e you wana do and dont let nobody tell you how to play.

[HolyDragoonSeraphus]

Why is it that a non SA dancing edge hits me for 350 damage..? T_T

A THF hits me for 19-28 damage in ballista...so technically Dancing Edge should hit me for like 150ish no? I mean if a 5 hit dagger ws does 350 then why doesnt penta thrust or raging fists do like 800+. My pentas range from 300-450 with thf sub and meat kabobs and nice ass attack/str gear.

[ryolen]

HolyDragoonSeraphus :
Why is it that a non SA dancing edge hits me for 350 damage..? T_T

A THF hits me for 19-28 damage in ballista...so technically Dancing Edge should hit me for like 150ish no? I mean if a 5 hit dagger ws does 350 then why doesnt penta thrust or raging fists do like 800+. My pentas range from 300-450 with thf sub and meat kabobs and nice ass attack/str gear.

I wish I knew the answer to that lol. But now, thanks to this version update, all multiple-hit weaponskills and Double attack+Triple attack are gonna be nerfed.

Personally, i'm very glad thats happening lol. They nerfed mages so much so we can't 1-shot you ppl, so why should you be able to 1-shot us?

I have to admit, i'm not gona play THF in ballista anymore.

O well:|

[Jammin]

The reason it hit so hard.. is because of sneak attack. It gives thf's a huge modifier for that first hit.. turns a low base damage weapon into an extremely high one. That's why you can take a 20 dmg (or whatever) corsair's knife and pop someone for 250 dmg with it in 50 cap.. sneak attack's modifier is vicious. I don't know the actual modifiers on plain old dancing edge itself without looking it up, but I'm sure that plays into it as well.

As for multi-hits being nerfed now.. I hope this doesn't take a lot of the balance out of ballista.. I can see it being good, but I can also see it really screwing with ballista till people adjust to it.