[Coejus]

Valin :
Coejus sucks at ballista :/

A proven fact T.T

[Zeh]

You don't nessaceraly have to be awesome at ballista to be a ballista pro, first thing you need is the urge to play it, and not just the no cap to boast about your gear.

Ellipsis knows what he's talking about. He is absolutely right. In my eyes, uncap is ridiculous because any extremely rich person can become 'godly'. Almost all uncap players are a joke anyway. I play all caps but I'd say Lv60 cap is the most balanced.

Anyone and everyone can be taken down in ballista by the suckiest players in mass numbers.

But this is also true. Also, a good player knows when the run away.. Even if people call you 'coward' and 'chicken', run away if you know you are going to die.

Umm, he was the leader of the Odin's Ballista Royale team, he's no n00b, jerk.

Just because he has a Stars Cap doesn't mean he is not a 'n00b'. As Ellipsis said, "first thing you need is the urge to play it". If you have a Stars Cap and you don't play Ballista on a regular basis, you don't deserve to wear it at all. I have a Stars Cap myself. Many people in my server complain that my team and I don't deserve the Stars Caps. They say we don't deserve it because they said we were being 'cheap'. They said we did not fight with 'honor' because we ran away. Honestly, only an idiot would charge into the opposing team, 'fight with honor', and giving them Gate Breach. There's no honor in Ballista. If you go afk during the Ballista, then that's too bad. You can't stop people from killing you. Ballista is a team game. No matter how you see it, Ballista is 'kill, run away, and score'.

I think I deserve to wear my Stars Cap, don't you?

Edit: Picture is too small to see, but I was trying to show you...
Gold chevron: 27 times
Mythril chevron: 11 times
Silver chevron: 17 times
Bronze chevron: 46 times
Job-specific chevron: 87 times

[Kecht]

/WHM or /RDM is godly in ballista. It's not really the job combo you wanna be to kill people, but it is a great support combo. A lot of people forget enfeebles. I've landed Silence, Slow, Paralyze, Gravity, and other crap on people in ballista, its great for crippling others. PLD is like the "come get me job" lol, sure use us for ur TP Gain, but with a staff(Spirit Taker) we're using you too. Diaga spam, Spirit Taker, and when low on HP, Divine Seal+CureIV. I've yet to try /NIN sub (Lv21 ><) so i wont really comment on that combo, but i know for sure a skilled /WHM or /RDM can piss off a lot of people, letting ur other team members do whats important, and thats scoring. Thats my two cents ~

[Valin]

I do enjoy ballista very much ^^, I would not have attempted to make a ballista team if i didn't.

You don't need to get so defensive, if you read my posts again, none of them have the slightest hint of hostility in them.

Also, I never onced claimed to be a "pro", so I have no idea where that came from. I'm decent at best. Our ballista team won because of the combined efforts of everyone who played.

my "Anyone and everyone can be taken down in ballista by the suckiest players in mass numbers." was an attempt at some ballista humor. But everyone always assumes that every post made is a flame. Well whatever. Flame away lol, I have some ballistas to attend to ^^

PS: So many irritable people. o.o

[Galadriel]

Tainted :
You have yet to give any proof to help your argument that pld/nin is good. It is not the best combo for dealing damage, and not the best combo for taking damage and supporting team mates. My whole argument about pld/nin has been based off of things you have said and common knowledge as to what gear is needed to be a decent DD and job abilities and traits. My conclusion still stands that pld/nin sucks. If you want to DD, go play drk or war. You're only being a gimp.

Haha if pld/nin sucks so bad i must just be an awesome player.

[Viddion]

PLD/WHM for 60
PLD/RDM for uncapped

[Geothermal]

Tainted :
I don't see how I'm getting defensive. I guess me pointing out that you're a retard who doesn't have a clue on how to gear yourself and play ballista in general means I'm getting defensive.

pld as shitty acc? You have an A+ rating with sword skill, and it is most likely capped. How does that equal shitty acc? You would still land almost every hit on the average player. Also, you claim to have enough str and everything. You can have the a million str, but if you don't have enough atk to fill that str you're not going to see its benefits. So since you have A+ rating in skill, and can be assumed you use life belt and haub for a total of +20 acc, why do you use sushi on EM mobs? You completely failed to understand the most simple concept to DD, which would be another reason why you should just stick to what you're good at. Taking damage.

Firaga? Who casts firaga? If a blm wants to do a quick -ga and deal damage, they cast stonega. If they want to just do damage, they cast blizzaga II. Why would they cast firaga, there's no advantage to doing so. But thanks for using one of those situational moments to try and say something is not worth wearing. Oh, and I guess you're trying to sound smart or whatever. ;; But hey, news flash, any HP after it is taken away doesn't matter. It's no longer there. The point of wearing something like BQ ring is so you have more max HP so when you are fully healed, you can take more damage. Times that you are fully healed include the start of a match, raising from death, or using potions while you quarry because you already have some in invetory. That's quite often to have max HP. And yeah, 75 HP in a single slot is a lot. Especially a slot where you'd either put something worthless or something that has a negative effect like -def.

Oh, and good job trying trying to relate gear and such selection in ballista to EXP. Because I mean, there's a lot of whm who sub war in exp and stack defense gear. Or rdm who sub war, sam, nin, and rng. Oh yeah, I forgot all mages use earth staff 100% of the time. Oh and don't get me started on all the 60drk/nin using axe or sword. Yeah, ballista gear and sub selection is really just like exp. Lol

Yes, I think a drk using vorpal blade completely owns a drk using rampage if they set themselves do so. Honestly, how many 100% main job drk merit sword and axe before scythe? The times you use either for something productive to a group is very minimal. Under normal circumstance, a drk can't fucking have vorpal blade in a 60 cap event. So since sword will most likely have 4-6 skill levels on axe at this point, why wouldn't it be better? Just give up, rampage is not a better WS for drk. WAR though is different, because their axe skill is naturally higher than their sword skill. But since axe and sword are the same for drk, whichever way they go will be better aslong as they get sword 200 skill for the WS. There's no need for a majority for something to be right. If I asked a bunch of toddlers what 2+2 was and the majority of them said 7 does that make the statement true? Sorry kid, it doesn't. Just because the majority says something doesn't mean it's the truth. So because the majority of people don't bother to merit sword if they can, that must mean rampage must be better.

I guess you would think our way of playing ballista is boring. Granted we only play like that during JP prime time since our matches reach 16-20 people per team at that time. With a large group like that, it is more valuable to communicate and actually plan attacks rather then just running in and hitting each other and hope you don't die. There are periods where we do just fight such as an attempt to claim a rook. But time is needed to either retreat and plan a new attack, or score before they execute their attack and you have to defend the rook. I hope you're catching on to the rook being the most important point in Ballista, and everything you do should be based around the location of the rook. During these times you don't need to always quarry. You may have already scored and have the items you want/need. So instead of standing there doing nothing, you go provoke attack while total battle has not been initiated. So running in to get TP and running out is common through out the whole match, not just the begininng. The actual importance of these phases has died down since the introduction of two rooks, but it still comes into play. Especially on the matches where only one rook pops.

I sometimes wish we had a larger and smarter NA ballista community on our server so it'd be easier to communicate. It'd be interesting if we were able to execute different military tactics used in real wars. Just think how it would feel to coordinate and execute blitzkrieg or pincer movements in Ballista. So you can say that our matches are like what ballista is supposed to be, a war exercise. Though we not be able to put together complex strategies due to the language barrier, we can form simple plans of attack and give signal when and who to attack. When our matches aren't decided by which team can just over power the other through brute force, they are decided by which team can organize their plan of action better. If you're busy trying to fight all the time, it only makes the needed communication harder to do.

Yeah, I think our style of ballista owns yours.

You have yet to give any proof to help your argument that pld/nin is good. It is not the best combo for dealing damage, and not the best combo for taking damage and supporting team mates. My whole argument about pld/nin has been based off of things you have said and common knowledge as to what gear is needed to be a decent DD and job abilities and traits. My conclusion still stands that pld/nin sucks. If you want to DD, go play drk or war. You're only being a gimp.

Trying to say pld/nin is good because you can score lots of petra is stupid. You can do that as any job. If you want to judge your ability as a DD, go a whole match with our scoring or curing someone. Compare yourself to a war or drk on atleast equal terms of skill as yourself. You'll see where you fall short then. You claim my 800 jin means nothing if I don't score or am eating dirt. It does mean a lot since I have to get you gate breach. Lol, I have an even better idea. Next ballista make two parties, one with 3 pld/nin and one with 3 war or drk. Don't have any other DD jobs in those parties. Let's see which party gets gate breach more. You do nothing but leech off of real DD and score petra.

You really don't understand anything about Paladin. Besides of course what you've seen, which seems to be frequent /Whm, /Rdm, and /War. And maybe some very poor /Nins. I know you're wrong, and Galadriel has a great pic of how you're wrong, but hey, this is free post count, why not continue this blazing facade of a debate.

I told you why Paladin has shitty Accuracy. You chose to not see it apparently. Our Dexterity rating is obscenely lacking. Not to mention our natural Accuracy is low. So yes, I could use Attack boosting food and I would hit average players. Hell, I could go in AF and basically hit average players. The problem is, in Diabolos, 60 cap rarely has average players. There's the occasional two or three, but I like having having even the most evasive people as a target. I've done the Meat Mithakabob, and even the Coeurl Sub. The boosted damage was nice, but while hitting for 10 damage extra was nice, missing more often was not. Diabolos has far too many Utsusemi users to miss an attack. And with usually at least 3 parties per side, Diaga is at times difficult to hit the desired target.

Who casts Firaga? Red Mages do frequently. So no, having a BQ Ring would be stupid. With Fast Cast, Firaga is not only far more damaging then Stonega, the casting time is still quite hard to outrun. But of course, you knew this right? And just how often is a Paladin healed to full HP. With over 1k HP, unless you're getting frequent Cure IVs and Vs, you won't. Potions could be applicable, but the only truly worthwhile one is Max-Potion. And now you're medicated. And pissing away your MP on curing yourself is a ridiculous idea. Having 100 MP at all times is quite wise. Because Holy costs 100 MP, its casting time is .5 seconds, and it's an instant 100-150 damage. Easy Gate Breach for the fool trying to run away with low HP. It's an inefficient and detrimental way to play using HP plus gear, unless it gives other positive effects. You can debate that Sniper's are stupid to wear, but guess what, no one uses those. Not for long at least. Venerer and Woodsman take care of business.

You really lack comprehension in any way, shape, or form if you couldn't understand the HP/Exp comparison. I'll make it more simple for you though. In terms of being hit, Ballista is very similar to Exp. You can get +160 HP, but that number diminishes quickly when you're being hit at a frequent rate. A good Dark dual wielding Axes hits for 50 damage each. Unless you're being Cured the minute you start to dip in HP, it's fucking stupid to use it. HP+ gear is only better in HNM situations, where you literally have two or three mages focused on keeping you at full health. You can't apply this situation to any other job, because for the most part, equipment in terms of the other jobs remains relatively static. With the exception of a Ninja tank. That's as simple as I can make it, if you are still hopelessly lost, which is probably the case, I can only offer you a very good psychiatric ward.

Again, no matter what you say for Vorpal Blade, Rampage will be better. And I'll make this seem more at home to you, I'll establish a situation, since you love them:

If a Dark merits Axe the same number of times as Sword, what will be better? Rampage. Because, IT'S NATURALLY BETTER. That's what I've been saying the entire time, but you choose to refuse to admit your error. The only way to make Vorpal better, is to give it an advantage. Wow, sort of fucking obvious that it will be better, don't you think? But let's think for arguements sake for a second. If you meritted Sword just enough to learn Vorpal in 60, would it be better? At level 60, I believe Dark has both Sword and Axe at 194. It is a B rating, after all. So, given your advocation of Vorpal, getting only enough merits to obtain the skill is only +6 Skill. Do you really believe that 12 Attack will make 5 hits more deadly than 5.5? Not to mention the 5.5 has the added chance of a critical hit, but let's just ignore that. 12 Attack will not suddenly part the seas, and Jesus will not emerge from the Heavens to smite your opponents with the awesome divine punishment that is Vorpal Blade. If that were the case, then all the Attack gear I have horded onto myself would make me quite formidable. But, you stated Pld/Nin is gimped. So which is it, you're in a contradiction. Would an extra 6 Skill, which translates to 12 Attack, outweigh the importance of an extra hit, making my setup quite powerful, or are you wrong? Well, either way you are, but still, I'm nice enough to grant a choice in the matter. But hey, another saving grace for you, I'm not positive on the skill level. Maybe They have a Skill of 193 or something at 60. But either way, unless it was +20 Attack boost or higher, you won't achieve more than tieing Rampage, and doing double the work. For your theory to have any correctness, you'd need the added attack to be incredibly significant.

Rampage does 550(Gimptastic, but if I did the realistic number, I'm positive you'd get lost). That means each hit was 100 damage the first hit at a 50% shaft. Vorpal hits for 500. 100 damage a hit. You'd need to achieve 50 damage extra with the merits just to tie Rampage. You say it's far better, so somehow it'd have to accomplish 100 damage extra. Granted the variables make this negligable, the formula is correct. A Dark Knight will always achieve more consistantely better Rampages than Vorpals. Unless of course you have a ridiculous amount of Sword merits. But that's just playing all the cards on your side. And your toddler example is null. Toddler's do not have the mental capacity to even form their own judgement, just what they are told. Things like this become painfully obvious as to which is better. Don't you think that after 2+ years of this game, the Enlightened Dark Knight would have arises, and proclaimed, "Vorpal Blade is indeed more powerful than Rampage! Let us use that!" But hey, look at that, Rampages galore. Statistics and modifiers do not lie, nor are swayed by bias like you an I. Rampage is, for all intents and purposes, a better Weapon Skill. I've shown facts to support Rampage, you've only given your word. Let's try to avoid fallacies k?

Your style of Ballista is a shoddy attempt at a war game. The main reason is, the truly tactical strategies look nice, and are nice to accomplish, but nine out of ten times a strategy consisting of, "Converge on a few enemies, eliminate said enemies, collateral damage is unavoidable" works better. Now if Ballista was a form of Deathmatch, then yes, tactics would have a very important role in Ballista. But with enemies being respawned within all of a minute, and the need to attain Gate Breach so great, the complex ideas and manuevers are not only at times difficult to accomplish, if it fails, there will be intense loss. You can play that way all you want, but you'll gain mediocrity unless your opposition is stupid to a catatonic point.

Since when does being the best mean you aren't gimp? Again, last time I checked, Ninja's was far from any of those things. So, by your logic, you are gimp too. "If you want DD, go play Drk or War." Ironic from a Ninja. What Pld/Nin brings to the table is what everyone but the Wars and Drks bring. Wearing down the enemy. Not to mention 500 damage from a WS is quite enough to produce a Gate Breach. With most jobs have less than 1k HP in 60 cap, 50% HP reduction is substantial. Not to mention the use of Holy for the runners at 3% HP. Your mentality is "u do gud dmg, u r gud." All the damage in the world isn't going to do anything if you're obsessed with the kill. In a game completely based on scoring to win, what matters is grabbing the kill. Usually when a person is bound/Gravitied/whatever, there's a goddamn horde attacking the poor bastard. All that matters is who gets the last hit. Hitting for 100-120 a round, with Holy, and a WS that will kill most at 3/4 HP, I can obtain my team the Gate Breach at a very frequent rate. You may claim it is "Stealing", but it's simply playing the job to it's potential. That's why I tend to get invited to the high damaging parties now. They have the Rampages and Guillotines to wittle the enemy down low, and I close the kill before the other pt can. And when it's all said and done, all that matters is the score. The fact that I can score over 200 points of Pld/Nin at a high rate means that I play it smart, which is turn makes me a vital member in my team. High end damage is merely a means to the end. Scoring is what wins. And with Ninja, I can create my own Gate Breach if need be. You can't do that with a mage sub, or with /War.


By the way, 3 Pld/Nin vs. 3 War/Nin, the Paladins would win. Curative spells and Flash far outweigh the power of Warrior. As for the Darks, depends on the subjob. /Nin would kill Paladins, because of Stun, Bind, Aspir, and Drain. /War, it would be close. But sorry, unless those Warriors are incredibly awesome, they will not win. And please, show a pic of your frequent Jins. I know a Ninja who goes in Haubergeon, dual Victory Rings, and a Enk Bracelet, just to name a few items, and his Jins never exceed 500. 600 if he criticals, but crit hit WSes are a moot point. And yes, I'm assuming he buys gil, but the fact is irrevocably true that he has never achieved the 800 damage mark. So please, show pics(Since you said you do it at least 3 times a match, so it should be easy to get pics of at least 3 different 800s).

[Arudor]

For the sake of the arguement, 3 Pld/Whm or Pld/Rdm would easily beat 3Drk/Nins. From the start you can just silence them and diaga away thier shadows. Then you have stoneskin and blink at the beginning to keep you alive and if /whm you can Divine seal + cure 4 to recover 600+HP and aquaviel to ensure your spells arent interrupted. You can also have fun with other debuffs as well if you want to. You could still wear DD gear too. In reality what benefit does /nin really give you? An extra sword and some shadows. That extra sword is nice but Id rather be able to take away an enemies shadows and still have buffs of my own while dealing decent damage. I am frequently able to win 1v1 matches against most jobs (not rdm .. they are just crazy, and some good mnks). Peace v^^

[Ellipsis]

Galadriel :

Tainted :
You have yet to give any proof to help your argument that pld/nin is good. It is not the best combo for dealing damage, and not the best combo for taking damage and supporting team mates. My whole argument about pld/nin has been based off of things you have said and common knowledge as to what gear is needed to be a decent DD and job abilities and traits. My conclusion still stands that pld/nin sucks. If you want to DD, go play drk or war. You're only being a gimp.

Haha if pld/nin sucks so bad i must just be an awesome player.

If that says anything its that you scored the most petra, any job class can do that.

[Jormungand]

You really don't understand anything about Paladin. Besides of course what you've seen, which seems to be frequent /Whm, /Rdm, and /War. And maybe some very poor /Nins. I know you're wrong, and Galadriel has a great pic of how you're wrong, but hey, this is free post count, why not continue this blazing facade of a debate.

I told you why Paladin has shitty Accuracy. You chose to not see it apparently. Our Dexterity rating is obscenely lacking. Not to mention our natural Accuracy is low. So yes, I could use Attack boosting food and I would hit average players. Hell, I could go in AF and basically hit average players. The problem is, in Diabolos, 60 cap rarely has average players. There's the occasional two or three, but I like having having even the most evasive people as a target. I've done the Meat Mithakabob, and even the Coeurl Sub. The boosted damage was nice, but while hitting for 10 damage extra was nice, missing more often was not. Diabolos has far too many Utsusemi users to miss an attack. And with usually at least 3 parties per side, Diaga is at times difficult to hit the desired target.

Who casts Firaga? Red Mages do frequently. So no, having a BQ Ring would be stupid. With Fast Cast, Firaga is not only far more damaging then Stonega, the casting time is still quite hard to outrun. But of course, you knew this right? And just how often is a Paladin healed to full HP. With over 1k HP, unless you're getting frequent Cure IVs and Vs, you won't. Potions could be applicable, but the only truly worthwhile one is Max-Potion. And now you're medicated. And pissing away your MP on curing yourself is a ridiculous idea. Having 100 MP at all times is quite wise. Because Holy costs 100 MP, its casting time is .5 seconds, and it's an instant 100-150 damage. Easy Gate Breach for the fool trying to run away with low HP. It's an inefficient and detrimental way to play using HP plus gear, unless it gives other positive effects. You can debate that Sniper's are stupid to wear, but guess what, no one uses those. Not for long at least. Venerer and Woodsman take care of business.

You really lack comprehension in any way, shape, or form if you couldn't understand the HP/Exp comparison. I'll make it more simple for you though. In terms of being hit, Ballista is very similar to Exp. You can get +160 HP, but that number diminishes quickly when you're being hit at a frequent rate. A good Dark dual wielding Axes hits for 50 damage each. Unless you're being Cured the minute you start to dip in HP, it's fucking stupid to use it. HP+ gear is only better in HNM situations, where you literally have two or three mages focused on keeping you at full health. You can't apply this situation to any other job, because for the most part, equipment in terms of the other jobs remains relatively static. With the exception of a Ninja tank. That's as simple as I can make it, if you are still hopelessly lost, which is probably the case, I can only offer you a very good psychiatric ward.

Again, no matter what you say for Vorpal Blade, Rampage will be better. And I'll make this seem more at home to you, I'll establish a situation, since you love them:

If a Dark merits Axe the same number of times as Sword, what will be better? Rampage. Because, IT'S NATURALLY BETTER. That's what I've been saying the entire time, but you choose to refuse to admit your error. The only way to make Vorpal better, is to give it an advantage. Wow, sort of fucking obvious that it will be better, don't you think? But let's think for arguements sake for a second. If you meritted Sword just enough to learn Vorpal in 60, would it be better? At level 60, I believe Dark has both Sword and Axe at 194. It is a B rating, after all. So, given your advocation of Vorpal, getting only enough merits to obtain the skill is only +6 Skill. Do you really believe that 12 Attack will make 5 hits more deadly than 5.5? Not to mention the 5.5 has the added chance of a critical hit, but let's just ignore that. 12 Attack will not suddenly part the seas, and Jesus will not emerge from the Heavens to smite your opponents with the awesome divine punishment that is Vorpal Blade. If that were the case, then all the Attack gear I have horded onto myself would make me quite formidable. But, you stated Pld/Nin is gimped. So which is it, you're in a contradiction. Would an extra 6 Skill, which translates to 12 Attack, outweigh the importance of an extra hit, making my setup quite powerful, or are you wrong? Well, either way you are, but still, I'm nice enough to grant a choice in the matter. But hey, another saving grace for you, I'm not positive on the skill level. Maybe They have a Skill of 193 or something at 60. But either way, unless it was +20 Attack boost or higher, you won't achieve more than tieing Rampage, and doing double the work. For your theory to have any correctness, you'd need the added attack to be incredibly significant.

Rampage does 550(Gimptastic, but if I did the realistic number, I'm positive you'd get lost). That means each hit was 100 damage the first hit at a 50% shaft. Vorpal hits for 500. 100 damage a hit. You'd need to achieve 50 damage extra with the merits just to tie Rampage. You say it's far better, so somehow it'd have to accomplish 100 damage extra. Granted the variables make this negligable, the formula is correct. A Dark Knight will always achieve more consistantely better Rampages than Vorpals. Unless of course you have a ridiculous amount of Sword merits. But that's just playing all the cards on your side. And your toddler example is null. Toddler's do not have the mental capacity to even form their own judgement, just what they are told. Things like this become painfully obvious as to which is better. Don't you think that after 2+ years of this game, the Enlightened Dark Knight would have arises, and proclaimed, "Vorpal Blade is indeed more powerful than Rampage! Let us use that!" But hey, look at that, Rampages galore. Statistics and modifiers do not lie, nor are swayed by bias like you an I. Rampage is, for all intents and purposes, a better Weapon Skill. I've shown facts to support Rampage, you've only given your word. Let's try to avoid fallacies k?

Your style of Ballista is a shoddy attempt at a war game. The main reason is, the truly tactical strategies look nice, and are nice to accomplish, but nine out of ten times a strategy consisting of, "Converge on a few enemies, eliminate said enemies, collateral damage is unavoidable" works better. Now if Ballista was a form of Deathmatch, then yes, tactics would have a very important role in Ballista. But with enemies being respawned within all of a minute, and the need to attain Gate Breach so great, the complex ideas and manuevers are not only at times difficult to accomplish, if it fails, there will be intense loss. You can play that way all you want, but you'll gain mediocrity unless your opposition is stupid to a catatonic point.

Since when does being the best mean you aren't gimp? Again, last time I checked, Ninja's was far from any of those things. So, by your logic, you are gimp too. "If you want DD, go play Drk or War." Ironic from a Ninja. What Pld/Nin brings to the table is what everyone but the Wars and Drks bring. Wearing down the enemy. Not to mention 500 damage from a WS is quite enough to produce a Gate Breach. With most jobs have less than 1k HP in 60 cap, 50% HP reduction is substantial. Not to mention the use of Holy for the runners at 3% HP. Your mentality is "u do gud dmg, u r gud." All the damage in the world isn't going to do anything if you're obsessed with the kill. In a game completely based on scoring to win, what matters is grabbing the kill. Usually when a person is bound/Gravitied/whatever, there's a goddamn horde attacking the poor bastard. All that matters is who gets the last hit. Hitting for 100-120 a round, with Holy, and a WS that will kill most at 3/4 HP, I can obtain my team the Gate Breach at a very frequent rate. You may claim it is "Stealing", but it's simply playing the job to it's potential. That's why I tend to get invited to the high damaging parties now. They have the Rampages and Guillotines to wittle the enemy down low, and I close the kill before the other pt can. And when it's all said and done, all that matters is the score. The fact that I can score over 200 points of Pld/Nin at a high rate means that I play it smart, which is turn makes me a vital member in my team. High end damage is merely a means to the end. Scoring is what wins. And with Ninja, I can create my own Gate Breach if need be. You can't do that with a mage sub, or with /War.


By the way, 3 Pld/Nin vs. 3 War/Nin, the Paladins would win. Curative spells and Flash far outweigh the power of Warrior. As for the Darks, depends on the subjob. /Nin would kill Paladins, because of Stun, Bind, Aspir, and Drain. /War, it would be close. But sorry, unless those Warriors are incredibly awesome, they will not win. And please, show a pic of your frequent Jins. I know a Ninja who goes in Haubergeon, dual Victory Rings, and a Enk Bracelet, just to name a few items, and his Jins never exceed 500. 600 if he criticals, but crit hit WSes are a moot point. And yes, I'm assuming he buys gil, but the fact is irrevocably true that he has never achieved the 800 damage mark. So please, show pics(Since you said you do it at least 3 times a match, so it should be easy to get pics of at least 3 different 800s).

If you can do all you claim you can, score, do THAT much damage and have that retarded set up as a paladin, Then you're right, the people on your server aren't average, they are below average...maybe you should check who you're doing all that damage off of next time. Acc. rings, Haub, Sushi, etc. hell, you'd die in 3 seconds on our server.

[Tainted]

The challenge wasn't putting three pld/nin and three war(drk)/nin against each other, it was to have them on the same team in two seperate parties to prove that pld/nin is a leech job at best. They suck, they're gimp, and completely fail at doing what they're trying their best to do.

I still don't understand how you think because pld may have low dex that their acc is bad. You have an A+ rating in sword, ability to wear over +40 acc in gear if you really wanted, and the mobs you are fighting con EM. How does that translate to bad acc? Is everyone a thief or evasion nin on your server? Those should be the only two jobs you miss at all, and why would you be trying to attack them if landing diaga is such a problem for you all anyway? Your argument is about as bad and funny as "because I'm elvann, I must eat sushi because I have low dex."

As you've accused me of using the most siuational of of points to my advantage, you're doing the same? You're trying to say BQ ring is a bad piece of equipment based off of an IF THIS HAPPENS...How about this? What if there were no rdm or blm? Since that's pretty much your only real argument against the ring, what happens when they're not there? Another if situation for you I guess. ^^; Also regardless of how fast you take the damage, it's more damage you can take when you are fully healed(which is often). It's enough to make a lame, gimp, pld like yourself curse at himself when holy fails to do what he intended it to do. For a drk, it's just that extra damage on soul eater. It has more benefits to it than the "if a rdm casts firaga, ladida" excuse.

Though I believe you're the one who really lacks the comprehension. You're the one saying it's okay to go pld/nin in DD gear when in the average exp party, that's not how a pld goes. But now you're saying that equip in ballista and exp are similar. Let's look at exp for a moment, just one earring slot. +25 HP or +2 vit. Okay okay, now let's look at ballista. -5 evasion +6 atk or +25 HP. I'm thinking the HP is gonna benefit you more then both, but I dunno, you're kind of slow to see things. And what acc ring you use depends on the person and what they're trying to accomplish. Take a thf for example. Sniper's offers acc/rng acc -10 def. Woodsmans acc/rng acc -5 evasion, jaeger acc/rng acc, venererwhatever acc. If they don't have jaeger, the best choice, which would a thf use where the negative stat isn't going to hurt them most? Keep in mind, for a thf rng acc is very important when it comes to their survival and overall usefullness. Also don't assume on what food they're using, because you can't always have food to make up for what you're lacking(passhow marshlands).


Okay, I'm going to make the rampage/vorpal argument short this time. You're trying to base your argument based off of WS damage mods alone. People who talk about mods generally don't know what they're talking about. Maybe it'd matter if all damage had a fix rate, but since it doesn't you won't even be able to tell. Then you're trying to add in the if situation. The only reason you HAVE to give vorpal blade an advantage in skill is because you need the extra to obtain the WS early.Vorpal Blade like Rampage has a crit mod, null argument. Skill doesn't only add atk but acc too. The majority of mainjob drk are either not 75 or understand there are better weapon skills to merit other then sword or axe. Maybe that'll help you understand why they don't merit sword very often. It's not going to benefit them outside of 60 cap ballista. But assuming nothing extra, for a drk to have vorpal blade then his sword skill has a natural advantage over axe. Which means in turn it has the highest acc and highest damage cap per hit out of the two.

You're mistaking judgement for knowledge on a subject. If a child places their hand on a hot pan and it burns them, they know not to touch hot pans if they don't want to get burned. They are mentally capable of making sound judgement for a lot of things. If I walked up to some random person on the street and asked them what does radical -1 equals and they gave me a wrong answer, it doesn't mean they have poor judgement.

It's easy to say something doesn't work when you've never had to deal with it our actually been a part of it. Unlike me who has played with all variants of pld numerous times , you've never tried this. Ballista is a war exercise. Think about it for a moment, a person lies unconscious for up to a minute and thirty seconds. Then they raise up and can't do anything for another minute or so. They also have the option of just going to camp, which is often enough far away from the actual battle and they still suffer from preparing for battle state. They also lose all their TP when they do this. For three minutes of time, you are making the other team unable to attack, score, and causing chaos in their ranks. You are diving them up, weakening morale, and obtaining control of the rook. After you finish scoring the gate breach you got from there, you then do the same thing again while they recover because it worked. I don't see how it can't work or only leads to mediocracy. The only way to win a match that is extremely unbalanced is this way. If you just try to fight them, then there's no hope because you will constantly be overpowered.

Every job that isn't a mage or a taru has over 1k HP in Ballista unless they are wearing -HP gear. Seriously, my thf who has no HP specific gear at all has over 1k HP. And I can easily say for you, all the petra in the world ain't gonna no good if you don't get gate breach, leech. Which is something you lack at in doing. Then again, you're assuming that because someone kills a lot means they don't score. =( Nah, we don't have WS to take down an enemy and give them a chance to run. We have WS to oneshot an enemy so we can quarry more and score. But not long ago there was a group of people who would come, put about 3 rng in one party and just "kill steal" every match like you claim to do with Holy. We ended up losing every match because only one party could get GB. Not that I don't expect that from you, as it's obvious you only care about your score not the team's.

But yeah, your score doesn't mean you're a good player. You can think it does, but often enough it means you're just a petra whore. In a recent 50 cap I was in, we had a smn on our team who scored 40 petra, had over 200 points, but we lost the match. Wanna know why? He never cured anyone.

I'd be glad to show you pictures, but for one technical reason I can't. I don't play on the PC. That's why I offered to give you contact information with someone who's felt an 880 jin from me in 60 cap. But other then that, not going to go out of my way to try and prove myself to you. I'm sure you wouldn't believe it if I told you I can hit 800 Dancing Edge in 60 cap. ;;

[Valin]

[Angel of Enders]

Chuck Norris ftw

[Wunderkind]

I'm gonna try DD WHM

[Eaglestrike]

Ellipsis :

Galadriel :Haha if pld/nin sucks so bad i must just be an awesome player.

If that says anything its that you scored the most petra, any job class can do that.

You don't get 239 with just being a scoring whore. You also have to heal and do some nice damage with a few kills on top of being the TOP scorer. My last ballista match (thf/nin) I was top scorer, had a bunch of kills, never died and only scored 217.

Pld/nin is a very strong combination. I've been using it in 60 cap and I really don't try too hard. I just use full AF, knights mantle, rajas/str ring, drone earrings, 2x Ryl Knights Espadon+1's. Those two swords grant me +24 attack and +36 hp, which is a pretty nice combo.

Pld has low acc? Really? A+ sword = Just as high of acc as anyone else. Access to Hauby + life belt = plenty of acc for anything but a thf really. I've gone to swordbelt+1 instead and even without Hauby my acc isn't that horrible. I do miss on nin and thf sometimes but don't really miss others. If I actually tried to gear my pld up for Ballista, I wouldn't use sushi at all, +attack all the way. Only reason I consider using sushi as my thf is to land bolts. But my food of choice as pld is Carbonara, +hp and +attack.

The paladins on my server hit ME, as a thf/nin that uses a gear setup granting 301 evasion skill fairly often, it pisses me off. Also, Vorpal has hit me for 600ish from pld's, meaning they connected many hits. I know these pld's, they eat +attack food, not +acc. A pld/nin with the correct setup is a force to be reckoned with. High hp, A+ weapon, high defense, the ability to cure oneself, really a tank in a ballista match.

[Valin]

www.penisland.net

For all the best pens, shop at penisland.net!

[Renlador]

Have any of you tried fighting a Pld/Rdm with Staff leveled in no cap? If any of you think Pld/Rdm with just sword and shield is a brick wall, try Staff. The Pld becomes a literal god (reference to pld being god is done by what others have said) or you'll just be called a cheater, pansy (mnk/sam called me that). As for Pld/Nin, (OPINION) seems a little gimp to me, Ive fought plenty of Pld/Nin as Pld/War, they did not give me or my allies any problems. If anyone wishes to challenge my Pld/Rdm to a no cap Diorama, feel free to invite if Im not already busy(Midgardsormr). Other things people forget that Pld/Rdm has, is bioII (lower attack), dispel, and aquaviel(eh I find it usefull). This combo usually just ends up pissing everyone off on my server, cause they have too much pride to admit a Pld beat them fair and square. I had one moment where people bitched about subs, so I turned them off, guess what? They still bitched. Ive had witnesses see what Ive done in 60 cap as just a Pld/War, Ide rather them post what happend. As for my infamy for being the Pld in that Whm video (Zalbag, Punkteta), I watched Zal(whm/blm) pwn a War/Nin in no cap (War was 2-3 lvls lower than him but still, a nice fight). As for Punkteta, if I go Pld/Rdm in Ballista agaisn't him, he won't hestitate to perform 3-5 self skillchains on me lol. As for everything else /Hurray! for all those who enjoy and take pleasure in Ballista.

[Iniin]

Why go pld/nin if you can just go war/nin or drk/nin? It'd be best if you just stacked up on def and damage deduction and act as support.

BECAUSE IM A PALADIN YOU MORON! IM NOT A WAR NOR A DRK

but yeah, PLD/RDM is by far best. with phalanx, stoneskin and earth staff in full def gear = wee 0 dmg a hit for j00, its truly god

[GlennXI]

A pld is not very good at that at all. A pld doesn't have the strength to even make a properly equipped rng sweat. If you want to DD, go war or drk. Stop being gimp.

You talk without knowing, In uncapped dioramas I kill rangers and sams as pld/nin using 0 shihei if we happpen to be alone 1vs1.
I recently tried an acc/haste build as pld/nin in uncapped and the past anoyances like ninjas and thiefs are no treat to me now because i can hit them just fine. Most ninjas try to isolate you to solo you, thats what a nin did and i followed, he failed at the end.