[Jammin]

This seems like the best place for this topic, so here we go.

My ninja just hit 58 tonight, and should be 60 in the next couple of days, so soon I'll be attending some 60 cap nation matches with it. For the life of me I can't decide what subjob or setup I should go with. Ninja main is so strong (similar to red mage) that I'm stumped on what to go for.

I have the following subs available:

Sam, rdm, blm, rng, drg, whm, brd, thf, war, and (lol) pld.

I know for a fact that sam, rdm, rng, blm, whm, war all work nicely to varying degrees. I was hoping some of you fellow ballista players would give me your opinions on what I should aim for.. what's the most fun to play in nation matches, and why you think that's so. I have plenty of gil and gear to equip any of the styles or setups, so that's not a factor.

[kang]

i think it depends on how u wan to play...and how many people u expect to be there. i hate going as nin to ballista...so im going by what i observe mainly

for a team game..i would say /war is definetly best...provoke always help ur team. zerk be nice for that extra help in dmg. however..usually each attack is quite weak --__-- if u want to just do alot of bladejin..of course /sam...however 60tp every 3min is quite disappointing..compare to /war.

if u just want to spend money and spam those ninjitsu... /rdm or whm is fine too...

i seen some ppl try /rng in 60cap..its horrible.....it works much better in uncap.

[Jammin]

Accuracy is too big an issue for nin/rng? I assumed you'd eat sushi (+1 perhaps in passhow) and just use melee + barrage for tp.. then slugshot or :Jin for your spike damage depending on the circumstances. I haven't looked into ninja-friendly guns.. but if my sad short bows on rdm/rng can dish out 350 damage I assume ninja can put up similar/better numbers.

/war is definitely something I will try, since I already own all the gear for it due to xp'ing. I own all the gear for /rdm or /blm as well.. since I do 9/10ths of my exp'ing as nin/mage. My worries on /war are that provoke from sub is extremely unreliable.. and it reduces me to just a melee'er. While that's fun at times (especially with shadows to protect you with zerk and double attack to get those sweet 4 swing rounds) I'm not sure if it's as much fun as other setups.. which is why I'm asking.

The main reason I even want to bring ninja to 60 cap matches.. are the boots. Let's face it, we all hate ninja's who zoom around for a good chunk of the starts and finishes of every stinking match.. it's really annoying. I must be that ninja.

[Tubbers]

I know someone named Teen who does NIN/RNG in 60 cap. You really need to have the right gear to make it work properly.
He had been playing FOREVER so he had top notch:
Mercurial Kriss }
These two allow you to get more TP because of floor drop 5 tp/hit
Hornet Needle }/

AF-All
Drone Earrings - AGI + 3 each
Sniper's Rings - ACC, RACC + 5 each
Life Belt - duh +10 ACC
Not sure on the Gun and Bullets, but he did about 450 - 500 with Slugshots and hardly missed.

He Had extremely low delay because of the two weps
150 + 150 = 300
With AF Chest and Dual Wield I think it went down to almost 200.

He never ever ever fired the gun without Barrage, just ran in to get off an attack round, run back to safety and Utsusemi: Ni again, continue until you get sufficient TP and fire off Slugshot on someone with low HP.

He attacked fast enough to interrupt spells. He generally did horrible damage with the daggers, but made up for it with really strong Slug Shots, which he would fire off almost once a minute.

[[Lakshmi]Aace]

you got all the time in the world to try every job, hopefully, start with war and end with (lol) pld
Edit: i used blm one time and the results were good, but im not sure about lvl 60...

[ryolen]

Sup Jammin.

remember that NIn have a C-(i think) in marksmanship. So do not try and aim at THF or other NINs for your Slug Shot, cuz THF have A+ in evasion ,and NIN have A-, so chances are that you will miss the WS.

But NIN/RNG is great for SlugShotting thos annoying ass BLMs lol.

[kang]

/rng is 60cap is really not useful....barraging for tp every 5min is aweful. worse of all, there isnt any good gun available for nin at 60cap. the key of /rng is to get fast tp to spam sidewinder. i dunt think nin can get tp fast enuf while still doing enuf dmg.

nin seriously isnt that strong in 60cap...i usually ignore them...even when they r hitting me with their 20-30dmg per hit. i just target other ppl -> mages, drks, war & mnks. they r just annoying...running in and out...hitting...and most importantly..their fast cast of blind/para very annoying LOL for me (sam/rng). i see nins as same as thfs in 60cap...they r there to annoy and create distractions. make urself a good teamplayer../war and provoke!!!

[Tezawen]

When my nin was lvl 55 i used to 60 cap, i just subbed war and used my normal exp gear and was owning everything, it really isnt to hard

[Jammin]

Ok, good input so far.. and I know the restrictions of /rng. I wouldn't rely on barrage for tp.. I'd use melee hits to build, then ws with slug or :Jin depending on the situation. My melee gear is excellent and I could easily pick up a gun belt for an extra 5 marksmanship skill. I rarely fire off slug/side at thf's or nin's even with my ranger.. so yeah, not with ninja lol.

As for ninja's being ignored.. well, if you want to ignore me that's ok but if I can do a 450 :Jin to an IT+ mob I'm sure I can manage one to a player.. and that's not a small amount of damage. Let alone if I go /mage and spin the wheel.. those :Ni's hurt like crazy.. I've done it a lot in 40 and 50 cap.

Again, I don't consider provoke a viable reason to be /war.. it just really isn't reliable from subjob.. I've tried it before on various jobs.. unless you are warrior main it never lands when you need it to. I know I'll try all the setups out eventually and decide what I like, just wanted input on why others like each subjob to maybe help me decide what order to try 'em in *grins*

[Tezawen]

/war is also good for berserk for ws and Defender when your getting hit to hard, would also be better for stronger normal hits then with /thf or /rng

[MoonwhisperMikuu]

Jammin :
I assumed you'd eat sushi (+1 perhaps in passhow)

dont eat food in ballista, especially not +1 sushi
you're going to die and lose the effect, so don't do it
unless of course you have the money to just throw away every few minutes on new food, or you just petra whore, in which case you don't really need food

[Angel of Enders]

MoonwhisperMikuu :

Jammin :
I assumed you'd eat sushi (+1 perhaps in passhow)

dont eat food in ballista, especially not +1 sushi
you're going to die and lose the effect, so don't do it
unless of course you have the money to just throw away every few minutes on new food, or you just petra whore, in which case you don't really need food

I'm not a ninja but I'm gonna disagree with you. I treat ninjas like THF's for the most part. They're not easiest to hit even with good accuracy gear, and with their shadows, if you don't have some type of AoE to throw at them or your team isn't paying attention, they're like flies in the living room that you try to swat away but they keep coming back.

Where I'm getting with this is, most of the ninjas I play with aren't easy to kill. They know what they're doing and they do it well so I'd think they'd be the job to be the most able to eat food and get a lot out of it since if they know what they're doing, they won't die very often. Now I wouldn't buy +1 food just for ballista because that's just silly but eating food is really helpful if you have the money to throw into it.

[Jammin]

Ok, update:

Finally got my gear together and went off to some 60 cap ballista today.

Gear is the following:

60 Nin/Sam:

Sairen/Hototogiso (I tried Muketsu off-hand but it just didn't proc enough for my tastes)
Walkure Mask
R. G. Collar
Spike Earring x 2
Haubergeon
Okote
Puissance Ring x 2
Jaguar Mantle
Swordbelt +1
R. K. Breeches
Ninja Kyahan
Bailithorn

For a total of:

+16 str
+7 dex
+68 atk
+20 acc

and the wonderful -34 evasion.

As you can see.. I stressed attack/str/dex.. and had plenty of accuracy just coincidentaly. I threw evasion completely out the window and went for offense.. reasoning that shadows + ninja shoes + always having tp would mean I didn't need it.

I did rather well in a pretty lopsided match in Jugner.. I ate Bream Sushi for the accuracy and dex (bumping me to +15 dex with it up.) Despite being down one man in a 7 vs 8 match I did really well with a hit and run approach.. suckering in an over-aggressive ranger quite a few times and laying waste to him with 350-450 dmg Blade: Jin's. Meditate was extremely nice for hit and run tactics.. allowing me to get my kills.. move off to quarry and build tp at the same time once in a safer location. I was very satisfied with my setup and performance in that match, so I moved on to Pashhow Marshlands.

In between Jugner and Pashhow I ran off to help a friend with the Tungi NM fight.. so I rushed back to windy and looked around for a food that would last long enough. However, I started running out of time.. so I just grabbed a Meat Mithkabob and figured what the hey, let's try meat. Barely signed up in time, gobbled down my Mithkabob and got started.

This match was very strange.. few mages for some reason.. so melee heaven other than the annoying shadows. The same ranger from the previous match was against me again, so I felt obligated to say hello. My first :Jin hits him for about 360.. no big deal, same as before. The second :Jin hits him for 598 and I decided I like meat lol. We end up losing a close match.. but only 1 death about halfway through to souleater + rampage for me, other than that was a blast. Tonko > :Jin on some poor unsuspecting person is deadly.

All and all I'd say Nin/Sam definitely shines for me, especially as a first test of Ninja in 60 cap. The constant ws's, plus nice survivability make it very appealing.. and running around chasing people with +25% movement speed is addicting. Next I'll test out Nin/Rng or Nin/War and let you know how it goes.

As for using food in ballista and eating +1 sushi.. my friend is a level 97+1 cook and makes it for me if I buy the ingredients.. so I pay 12k/stack for Bream Sushi and get several +1's in there to boot. Paying 1k per death is very cheap and affordable if you ask me. You're correct about ninja though.. I played 2 matches with it today and died 6 times in the lopsided match and 1 time in the even match. So I spent 6k on sushi and um.. some cheap price for the kabob, let's call it 1k. 7k for 2 hours of senseless killing enjoyment seems very cheap and worthwhile to me. The petra whore comment I will ignore.. only a fool rushes in to die non-stop in a ballista match. I play to win (in nation matches) and that means I score as well as kill. Match one I had 11 kills and scored 21 petras. Match two I had 10 kills and scored 23. Call that whatever you want, I enjoy it.

Ending: I liked Nin/Sam a lot, next up I'll do Nin/Rng or Nin/War, any gear changes or suggestions are welcome, as well as more info on why people like which subjobs.

[Delequiox]

How about NIN/RDM? Anyone try that for 60cap?

I know NIN/RDM is extremely deadly in 40 and 50 cap because thats what i use and it goes off almost every time with the feeling of invincibility >:3 *ehem* but i notice ton: Ni nukes start to lose power in the higher levels. Although it also brings alot of other great spells and abilities that help your team bring down your opponents:

-Abilities-

-Fast Cast: Very very usefull, casts spells faster, with this you'll be able to cast spells with fairly long cast times faster before they run out of range.

-Magic Atk. Bonus: Great for Ton: Ni spamming

-Magic Def. Bonus: Fairly good, helps you stay alive when theres BLMs raping your team.

-Spells-

-Cure(1-3): Name speaks for itself.

-Regen: Helpfull for healing HP on the move from place to place, regen can get a good deal of hp recovered over time without having to spend alot of MP.

-Diaga: Great for picking out shadows.

-Silence: A silenced mage is a useless mage. Diaga > Silence is a very powerful combination.

-Sleep: Gets resisted alot but it'll keep your enemies still til your ready to kill them, poison potions ussually make this useless anyways.

-En spells: Fun to mess with your apponents, ussually doesnt do more than 7dmg per hit, works well with dia to add additional DMG to an opponent.

-Gravity: If theres a runner, Gravity will asure they die before they get back to camp 90% of the time.

and of course

-Katon, Suiton, Raiton, Doton, Huton, Hyoton: The elemental wheel with magic attack bonus from RDM sub has shown in many occasions to be quite alot more powerful, the low delay works wonders for quick imediate DMG, almost as effective as Jump, less DMG but you can use 6 of them in 45 seconds insted of 2 in 10 seconds, the range is longer than jump too, Fast Cast makes -Ton jutsus fire off more quickly and assures the enemy to die faster.