[Raggedstar]

Seloan :

The war was already over, the A-Bomb was the "Fatality"

We were winning, the war was hardly over. The Japanese are not a people who are fond of surrendering. There were actually Japanese soldiers left on surrounding islands for years hiding in caves and many of them refused to believe that the their nation had surrendered. Had the atom bombs not been dropped, the allies already had a plan layed out to invade Japan (More than 110,000 deaths I promise you) because surrender from the Japanese was the last thing to be expected.

=/

1. About 150,000 people were killed immediatly, and at least 200,000 people were killed from the after affects. So, 350k+ were killed.. where did people find this 110k crap anyways?* <.<; (Even though you were supplied the wrong info, you assumed it was correct, do some research yourself)
Oh, and to top it all of, the majority of that 350k+ were civilians.

2. Japan had allready surrendered... >.<; The U.S. didn't get a treaty/whatever they wanted fast enough (they waited 1-2 days I believe -- and in a world without good communications, they needed more time) So, they decided to bomb Japan to speed up the process without having to invade and risk their own soldiers. They never truly intended to invade Japan, they wanted to test out the atomic bomb, and they didn't want to risk their soldiers.

3. Do you know anything about radiation poisoning? The reason there are no solid death counts is because of two things: A bomb itself is hard to tell the death count and people are still dying today because of the bombing. Maybe you dont realize the mass impact the atomic bombs actually had. The radiation released from the atomic bombs was so bad that survivor's children and dying because of how messed up their chromosones are. (and truly, people will be dying because of this bombing until humans themselves die out) Do you actually understand how horrific that is? Your understanding should go in this cycle: Doesn't realize -> Realizes -> Realizes that you can't concive such a thing. (you can't truly understand the impact it had, but you can realize that its so large, that you can't visualize it)

So, as you say....

Seloan :
Strike 3, yer out.

Better luck next time. Do your reserach.

*110k is roughly the number of people died immediatley in Hiroshima... perhaps thats where it came from? Either way thats a poor estimation for both considering more people died because of the radiation. =/

Hmmm, sorry for de-railing this topic. But I hate it when people are so ignorant of the truth behind the atomic bombs. /=

[SpiceyMeatloaf]

Yes and people are still dieing from that shit today it adds up gg.

[.Tizit.]

Buuyon :
I hate the Olympics but...

gg


Canda beat them...Cmon now...

Germany has David Hasselhoff....fucking cheater's.

[Buuyon]

THEIR USING THE HASSELHACK!? FUCKING CHEATING NOOBS!! I thought all those Golds where poping claimed...Atleast I know it wasnt just me seeing it...

*Goes back to not knowing anything about the olympics...*

[Seloan]

If you want to add after effects then sure there will be a lot more deaths, I was only including the initial attack...I don't know what makes one estimate better than another though. We did fully intend to invade Japan, if you do a little research you can find the actual documents which contain the plan for which they were going straight into the heart of the country. Even if the bombs killed 500,000 it wouldn't compare to the amount dead from that invasion. The U.S. might have wanted to drop the bomb, but I don't think we did it to "test out the atomic bomb"- that had already been done. If dropping the atomic bomb was done for reasons other than putting a more efficient end to WWII it would have been to put the 'big stick' back in our hands and keep any other conflict away for a while.

Your 'truth' is no more factual than what I provided, excpept for maybe the deaths caused by the effects of radiation. If you want to play that game then I guess the Soviets might as well have declared war on its neighbors after Chernobyl, though.


Regardless of underestimating the deaths, what I said still holds true, and I only started it for a personal laugh anyway. If anyone here is seriously comparing FFXI with WWII then shame on you. Seeing the words "USA" on KI just instinctively throws me into flaming mode now.

[Valin]

The Japanese knew 2 months ahead of time.

[vagus]

God, some of u seriously need to lay off this JP vs Usa thing.

[Senoska]

:con

[Kauna]

Two months is a long time to prepare.

[Geothermal]

Raggedstar :

Seloan :

The war was already over, the A-Bomb was the "Fatality"

We were winning, the war was hardly over. The Japanese are not a people who are fond of surrendering. There were actually Japanese soldiers left on surrounding islands for years hiding in caves and many of them refused to believe that the their nation had surrendered. Had the atom bombs not been dropped, the allies already had a plan layed out to invade Japan (More than 110,000 deaths I promise you) because surrender from the Japanese was the last thing to be expected.

=/

1. About 150,000 people were killed immediatly, and at least 200,000 people were killed from the after affects. So, 350k+ were killed.. where did people find this 110k crap anyways?* <.<; (Even though you were supplied the wrong info, you assumed it was correct, do some research yourself)
Oh, and to top it all of, the majority of that 350k+ were civilians.

2. Japan had allready surrendered... >.<; The U.S. didn't get a treaty/whatever they wanted fast enough (they waited 1-2 days I believe -- and in a world without good communications, they needed more time) So, they decided to bomb Japan to speed up the process without having to invade and risk their own soldiers. They never truly intended to invade Japan, they wanted to test out the atomic bomb, and they didn't want to risk their soldiers.

3. Do you know anything about radiation poisoning? The reason there are no solid death counts is because of two things: A bomb itself is hard to tell the death count and people are still dying today because of the bombing. Maybe you dont realize the mass impact the atomic bombs actually had. The radiation released from the atomic bombs was so bad that survivor's children and dying because of how messed up their chromosones are. (and truly, people will be dying because of this bombing until humans themselves die out) Do you actually understand how horrific that is? Your understanding should go in this cycle: Doesn't realize -> Realizes -> Realizes that you can't concive such a thing. (you can't truly understand the impact it had, but you can realize that its so large, that you can't visualize it)

So, as you say....

Seloan :
Strike 3, yer out.

Better luck next time. Do your reserach.

*110k is roughly the number of people died immediatley in Hiroshima... perhaps thats where it came from? Either way thats a poor estimation for both considering more people died because of the radiation. =/

Hmmm, sorry for de-railing this topic. But I hate it when people are so ignorant of the truth behind the atomic bombs. /=

Let's hear it for crackpot Anti-USA conspiracy theories.

The bomb was terrible when it struck, and for quite a while after. Everyone knows that. We had a strategic battle plan set for invading Japan if we had to. But fighting the Japanese back then would have been far worse in death count than an atomic bomb. The vast majority of the Japanese would not have given up, even the civilians. They were still ruled by a Mikado, Hirohito I believe, and if he asked for the people to fight to the death, nearly all of them would have. In 1945(Before bombs dropped), there were an estimated 70 million Japanese. With how fiercly loyal and fueled by honor they were, you can very safely say at least 10 million of them would have helped stop the invasion. Then, at least 3 million would be killed. Maybe about 1 million American soldiers would die. These numbers are pretty low too, because completely crushing the Japanese would've taken literally years.

People make the two A-Bombs seem like such inhuman events. Granted, they were a dark, bleak mark on our nations history, but it still saved countless Allied and Japanese lives. Hell, the bomb tactic was a huge bluff anyway in the end. The only reason they surrendered unconditionally was that we let "information" leak that we had entire fucking silo's of those atomic weaponry just waiting to be used. In actuality, those two A-Bombs were all we had. It'd take months to prepare another.

So cut the guilt trip. I'm sure none of us are proud of that, but tactically, it was the most intelligent move to make.

[Raggedstar]

Seloan :
If you want to add after effects then sure there will be a lot more deaths, I was only including the initial attack...I don't know what makes one estimate better than another though. We did fully intend to invade Japan, if you do a little research you can find the actual documents which contain the plan for which they were going straight into the heart of the country. Even if the bombs killed 500,000 it wouldn't compare to the amount dead from that invasion. The U.S. might have wanted to drop the bomb, but I don't think we did it to "test out the atomic bomb"- that had already been done. If dropping the atomic bomb was done for reasons other than putting a more efficient end to WWII it would have been to put the 'big stick' back in our hands and keep any other conflict away for a while.

Your 'truth' is no more factual than what I provided, excpept for maybe the deaths caused by the effects of radiation. If you want to play that game then I guess the Soviets might as well have declared war on its neighbors after Chernobyl, though.


Regardless of underestimating the deaths, what I said still holds true, and I only started it for a personal laugh anyway. If anyone here is seriously comparing FFXI with WWII then shame on you. Seeing the words "USA" on KI just instinctively throws me into flaming mode now.

Ahh, it seems I was sucked into the same thing... It seemed like people were trying to use "haha we killed you!" as a kind of rebuttal to the match.
And I threw you into that category ^^; Sorry, /salute

Just for an intelligent conversation, I think the invasion could've gone well with under 500k deaths, but I'm using hopefuly thinking... so maybe not that intelligent. (I'm basing this on a couple points... that aren't what you would call solid points to say the least... very interesting what could've happened from tactical point of view) And the bomb dropping was a test of its use in war, although the government will never admit it. They had to guage the use of such a weapon in war, and they didn't think it would have as big as animpact from their tests, but they couldn't be sure, they'd have to actually test it.... =X If not, they were in a perfect position to be be at the bad end from much speculation. In which case, they should've seen it coming. (Japan was going to give up though, they had allready written a treaty by the time they were bombed)
Otherwise thats all I have to say, probably wont post again, in hopes this thread just dies <.<;

Let's hear it for crackpot Anti-USA conspiracy theories.

Let's hear it for American Propaganda. I'm not Anti-USA, its a very controversial issue, which is very hard to speculate on without a good foundation of the day to day ideology of the people involved. I don't know such ideology, therefore my opinion in all serious-ness is crap. ;D
Just to be fair though: Regardless, they did have a treaty of surrender before the bomb dropped.
Opposing View: Did they actually have intention of going with that treaty? They didn't have time to act for it in the scenario that actually happened, and we can only speculate on such an issue.

[Buuyon]

Once there was an ugly man...He was so ugly that everyone died...The end...

[Perdition]

This is pretty silly.. so for u angry EU or JP ppl, here are the facts about us AMERICANS...
we don't care about half the sh*t u guys do. We been beating so much ass over the past 100 years, that beating you has gotten to be trivial. Other countries take pride in beating us, we don't care... it's not like back in the day when it really meant something.

Here is the fact, America is player hated on left and right by the rest of the world.. because we are the richest country in the world. We have the most bombs, the best military, the best sh*t in general, we are at the forefront of everything. Here is a piece of advice, stop hating, get ur ass over here, and see what it's like to live like us fat cats. Oh.. and no way EU can f*ck with NA in ballista, we'll kick ur ass.. seriously...





Oh.. and American's don't like winter much.. hence why we don't give a damn about the winter Olympics.
Summer olympics on the other hand....

[Buuyon]

we arent the richest country...We are number 3 http://www.aneki.com/richest.html

[Dimmauk]

Have any of you been to Pear Harbor? I have.

Have any of you been to Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I havent.

What does WWII and the A-bomb have to do with Japan beating U.S. in Ballista? I have no idea.

Seriously, what kind of moron responds to a post about America losing to Japan in Ballista with a A-Bomb reply?

That would be like going to an Indian Casino, losing money on slot machines, and then shouting "Well at least we took your land and massacred your people!"

[Buuyon]

Or better yet...Taking the casino back...

[Perdition]

/sigh per capita, dollar for dollar we sh*t on luxemborg, or whoever.




4/5 top richest ppl in the world are from.. u guessed it.

oh and luxembourg population = 468,571
united states population = 295,734,134

plz don't fact whore, because then you get fact whored.

[Buuyon]

Anyways I have no fuckin clue...Just did a quick google search and found that...Dont know anything about that...

[Nadul]

Gross Domestic Product

1 United States 11,667,515
2 Japan 4,623,398

Ironically enough, the EU edges the US.

But they cheat, it would be like us adding Canada and Mexico. (Which would put us ahead of them)


Edit: This thread is silly.



Also, my sig.

[NerdKiller]

Pathetic insecure NA trash. Oh noez we gotz beet in ballltissta letz bring up world warz 2wo!!!!!!!11!1!!(Yes thats how most NA in this game type)

I feel sorry for you, is your life that pathetic that you cant just say "They kicked the NA ballista champs asses" and move on? Be glad that you have some levels, craft skills and HNM kills in a virtual world to be a "big man" because in the real world you are just trash.

Typical NA geeks who have no clue about competitive activities. I guess its not hard to have no clue about competition when you were getting your head flushed in a toilet while others were learning about sportsmanship.

Good job NA trash!