[Serataru]

I am doing this for Tyche's sanity. Bring the whm melee questions, debates, etc here.

This means questions such as:
what sub should I use for [insert situation]?
Which weapon is best for mainhand/offhand?
What equip should I use for [insert slot] for [insert situation]?

Posting this from another thread. I didn't write it.

ok. I gotta say.... quite a few of you, obviously haven't lvled melee only jobs.... this is not INTENDED to be a flame, but will probably come off that way, anyway.


In order for a WHM to deal good DD numbers on any mobs, you need a few things. First an foremost is accuracy. Gear outside of weapons can cover this.

Second, is STR. WHM AF hands, or AF+1 hands are AWESOME in this aspect. Believe it or not,. but STR really helps.... if ya don't believe me, slap a sushi on, and have a BRD double etude you, then hexa something... the numbers will be VERY high compared to w/o.

3rd, is critical hits... these are the BIG changes made to hexa strike. 2 things effect hexastrike so greatly that others don't matter... 1: DMG rating of weapon. 2: Critical Hit Rate. This being said, Morgenstern gives the biggest increase to both, together. only 2 clubs give a better DMG rating. Mjollnir :57, and another *name eludes me* :41. DMG directly relates to the ammount of damage the critical hit will do. Ask a THF, it's what SATA is based on. and for the one who said +6% doesn't make a difference... ask ANY melee job about crit merits... they swear by... that measly 4%...

4th, and MOST important, is delay reduction. Too many jobs fail to get delay reduction, and rely on other things. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. For a WHM, it can become absolutely GODLY.... and I'll explain why. let's say you're lvl 75 whm/nin not gimp, w/ Mjollnir main hand, Morgenstern off hand. this is, the highest Hexa Strike potential btw but with dual wield, your delay will be ~600. so you swing both weapons, every 6 seconds. however, add full blessed +1, and the new Walahra Turban, and you have instant 20% haste, + spell for another 20%.

Suddenly you're swinging every 4 seconds. and yeilding the same 16.5 TP each time. Now add Suppanomimi, Ninurta's sash, and Brutal Earring. Your delay, with both clubs, is reduced to 230ish. Now you're swinging 2 clubs, every 2.5 seconds, for 16.5 TP. with the potential for double attack from the brutal.

not to mention, you have 50% reduction on Ni recast :-p

but back on the damage thing. add the right acc gear, where you can put it. and str for it's respective space. to show some numbers, with unlocked morgenstern of course, DST off hand, I have unleashed a 2.5k hexastrike in KRT bones. that's a full double attack process, as it yeilded over 30 TP
I have put these numbers up multiple times. the only thing that can increase my damage potential, at this point, for single attacks, is Mjollnir, for extra DMG on the crits. Predicted output, in same conditions as my 2.5k, is 2.9k. now take the ~15 second TP and you see the potential.

now for the one who said that morgenstern's 5.28 DPS is too weak.... you DO realize that the 5.28 DPS is BEFORE IT'S UNLOCKED??!?!?! seriously... use logic people....

The single best club, outside of Mjollnir, for DoT AND Damage output @ one time, is Morgenstern. Purgatory mace is simply a show-off, as is KC.
I tend to solo alot as whm, I borrowed a KC once to try it out, and it's the last time I'll ever use it.... sure I hit ALOT, but I hit 0s every time... where I usually crit 190+ *Even match mobs usually* don't get me wrong, KC is GREAT for skill up, and for DRK *certain cituations* but not for every day use, or for soloing. or for EXP DD. it's a novelty item. and if you can't kill things solo that it hits 0s on, then you shouldn't try to solo. WHM just can't use the club right is all.

Request a sticky for this, so whm forums does not become a melee whm orgy (even though im a melee whore too)

[Majhone]

/clap

one thing on the crit hitrate stuff though. Ill just start by saying that that aside form NIN, i havent leveled melee jobs much. But doesnt DEX help with crit success? +Crit hitrate gear is good, but there are some base stats that can also improve that. Acc+DEX will give you a lot more reliable hits.

also, whm forums are all about hexa. thats all anyone wants to talk about. Hexa Hexa Hexa.
What about Black halo? So far im the only whm I know who has pulled 1300~ dmg from it on something aside from a weak mob.. It has potential too.

[BlueNu]

i did a 582 hexa on DL with very average gear

i wanna try BH -> hexa on him next :love

[Serataru]

Black Halo, in my experience is for looking cool. My hexas are so much better. If someone could post some info on how to make the Black halos better, I would love to try it! Nothing like looking awesome and kicking ass at the same time

edit: start requesting a sticky please, i want this thread to stay at the top so we can stop the forum spam for every little melee question

[rezn0r]

Black Halo - STR 30%, MND 50% - TP multiplies it (100% 1x, 200% 2x, 300% 3x)

because of the speed at which you get TP, hexa is usually better
Majhone is elvaan, would probably put our black halos to shame at 300% :b

[Rakshas]

hmph...why did SE make it so "hard" to get such a crappy WS (compared to Hexa) . . . anyways, if BH was 6 hit, it'd actually do some damage.

[Majhone]

taru whms like Hexa because its the best dmg they can do with melee.

Black Halo is a RS-WS. Elvaan/Hume pull it off the best.
Actually, BH could be more reliable than Hexa and just as dangerous.

at 300tp its 2 critical hits for 3x damage each. Which is the same as 6 crit hits... sooooo.. Its just a Black Hexa with Modifiers that are easier to reach as a mage. Probably why my BH's are nearly equal to my Hexas when both are used at 300tp. Only benefit Hex has over BH is its potental at 100tp. ( if you land all 6 hits and they crit successfully)

But my DEX question regarding Crit hitrate remains unanswered. Wheres Ley....

[raaven]

I use black halo occasionally with a martial wand, it does nice damage against things that aren't bones. considering tarutaru have the lowest STR and MND really hurts, i find that martial wand increases my BH damage by 300-400 consistently. what the OP quoted is mainly true, but he/she forgot to mention attack needs to be factored into WS also. An additional 50 attack will boost WS and normal attacks by a lot. Don't forget about it.

[Rakshas]

Maj I don't think you should replace any slots with mnd str haste or acc for dex...

[MethosKel]

Halo with the right gear and SA will crush any Hexa average easy.

[Skylar]

let's say you're lvl 75 whm/nin not gimp, w/ Mjollnir main hand, Morgenstern off hand. this is, the highest Hexa Strike potential btw but with dual wield, your delay will be ~600. so you swing both weapons, every 6 seconds. however, add full blessed +1, and the new Walahra Turban, and you have instant 20% haste, + spell for another 20%.

Suddenly you're swinging every 4 seconds. and yeilding the same 16.5 TP each time. Now add Suppanomimi, Ninurta's sash, and Brutal Earring.

This is kinda ridiculous. Mjollnir is incredibly hard to obtain, gimp without it? um.. Also, there is only one person across all servers with a Ninurta's sash, a SAM that got a lot of criticism for having it. So, GL with that one.. Why even mention it?

[Majhone]

This is KI. Nobodys reasonable. Look at their sigs...

[Rakshas]

yeah my Mjollnir and kraken look awesome^^

[Saylen]

Skylar :

let's say you're lvl 75 whm/nin not gimp, w/ Mjollnir main hand,

This is kinda ridiculous. Mjollnir is incredibly hard to obtain, gimp without it? um..

I interpreted his "not gimp" comment differently. I thought he was saying if you were a WHM/NIN, not gimped (ie Nin is a fully leveld sub, and not just 12 for shadows).

I can't imagine anyone saying ANY job is gimp because they don't have a fully upgraded Relic weapon <.<

[Serataru]

^

going with her interpretation. I think the gimp comment was referring to the sub.
Otherwise, we're all some gimp mo-fos rly.

[Majhone]

look at the jobs i have....

Im the definition of gimp Melee WHM... and I can still outsolo most mages I know.

[Tyche]

This thread fucking wins and kudos to whomever stickied it.

Just to add something to that very very top post where sera quoted someone. Boost attack before you boost STR. Use STR for WS. Of coz WHM gets dick for +attack gear. Use bellicose, minuet earring, etc etc for melee. Every piece of +attack gear accessible to WHM. WHM have pityful pityful attack, hence the low numbers. Do whatever you can to boost that. Use logic when choosing food. If your meleeing VT+, sushi. T or lower, can prolly get away with meat.

[Banggugyangu]

ok. lol to clarify some things. the 'not gimp' comment was referring to subjob lvl

yes, +DEX DOES increase crit rate, however not enough to replace haste or str. Black Halo, is more reliable damage, however, if equipped properly, hexa will ALWAYS do more, because you won't miss, and you have your damage capped higher. *I've tested every possible option for black halo, and never topped 1.9k, where I can reliably pump out 2k+ hexas on the same mobs with less TP* don't get me wrong, BH does quite a bit of damage, and for some, you'll have more luck, especially elv, simply lack of dex/acc. and it IS very pretty.

about using attack gear for TP, if you haven't hit your damage cap, which as whm, is quite difficult to achieve, then by all means, GOGOGO attack gear for TP. then macro STR for WS. you'll need decent acc for both, but I myself have hit my damage cap, as I stated in my last post of the other thread. on skel mobs, 1.5x bonus for blunt, my cap is 140~150 normals, and 190~195 crits. double minuet + all the att gear I can put on and not sacrifice str, doesn't help. however STR etudes, DOES. while I'm teetering on the edge of my cap, I was able to raise my cap by ~15 damage with str etudes. as I stand atm, the only things that'll permanently raise my damage, is AF+1 hands, and Mjollnir for my main hand.

also, I can't stress this enough. if you get your hands on a Morgenstern... unlock that latent, then NEVER put it down... even if you get a Mjollnir... the latent processes in off hand as well... and Mjollnir + morgenstern is the absolute BEST combo for melee damage, if you use it, you'll see why.

for those who haven't hit their damage cap, pop /war and /drk on, to test it out *souleater will raise it. so don't use that if you're wanting to test*

if this becomes a sticky, I have to say, I'm honored, lol but I have a few other posts that are in the same thread as that first one, that help to clarify some things.

[Rakshas]

how long did it take you to get that mjollnir?

[Hitsugaia]

Also, there is only one person across all servers with a Ninurta's sash, a SAM that got a lot of criticism for having it.

??

Okay, I know it's funny for asking at 63, but did we find out how to get this? I remember when it first popped up in the .dat files and everyone went nuts for it.

Edit: Mysterytour says it's from Absolute Virtue, but has the prerequisites as need "In the Name of Science" completed (Sea organs). I'm guessing this was confirmed?