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The Great White Hype: Bring your WHM Melee Debates here please!!

#41
User is offline   Force-Attuned Krogoth 

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Banggugyangu :
best way to tell if you've capped your ATT for your current STR and DMG, is take a brd75 w/ you. go to Eldieme. w/ no buffs, take the average of your crit hits on coffer bones.


then, have the brd give you double minuet. take the average of your crit hits.

then, have the brd give double str etudes. take the average of your crit hits.

then, 1 str etude and 1 minuet. take the average of your crit hits.

if minuet x2 gives you a bonus @ all, then you haven't capped ATT for your STR and DMG.

if minuet x2 doesn't give you a bonus, then you HAVE capped ATT for your STR and/or DMG.

if STR etude and 1 minuet gives you the BEST bonus, then you haven't capped ATT for your DMG, but you HAVE capped it for STR.

in order for me to see the best bonus, I require 2 STR etudes. because I have capped ATT for STR and DMG.

basically, I crit 197 every time, unless the mob has an extremely high def/VIT. I use a DMG40 weapon, DMG41 would give an even 200 every crit.

2x minuet: 197. 1 STR Etude 1 Minuet: 225. 2x STR etudes: 278. my ATT is even capped on that, because my damage is constant 278, not varying except from mob to mob.



also, news update for the taru whm w/ KC.... 2x STR etudes + KC off hand morg main hand... 8/8 hits from KC landed. 7/8 crits, in this order:

normal 75, crit 95, crit 95, crit 95, cri 95, crit 95, crit 95, crit 95.

I peed a lil when I saw this, but it's still too unreliable. might be useful for duoing w/ a brd, but w/o one, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.

this was done on KRT bone again, like the first time using one.

I gotta work on getting AF+1 hands sometime soon, thinking bout getting the taru RSE2 to play w/ on WSs a lil.

outside of this, THF has been taking all my time. *now lvl 60 and LOVIN DE..... 1158 @ 60 is AMAZING*

Bull hocky. THere's a myth running around that the atk cap is low, like 500 for VT mobs. Not true in the least. And if you're looking for the damage number that is least affected by atk, a critical hit is it. For a simple, quick, and easy explanation of this process, look at your regular hit vs. crit on mobs. If they're T or better, you'll usually get twice the regular damage on crits, or more. Head to a TW, and you get maybe 30% more damage. Does this mean that you don't have enough STR for the level 0 bunnies? No.

The method I use to judge the atk/def curve is comparing your melee damage against your base weapon damage. I find that if I'm hitting for 1x - 2x base damage, +atk makes a significant difference in damage. Outside that range, +str is generally better, unless you're adding enough +atk to put it in the 1-2x range. I've done alot of fussing with gear on my thf, and I can say with reasonable certainty that on T-VT mobs, it takes 600-700 atk, or sometimes more, to push my damage above the 2x mark. Now, if you're a whm and fighting skeletons, there's a bit of a modification that needs to be done, as those things are weak to blunt damage. I've heard it's a 25% bonus, but I'm not the expert in that.
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#42
User is offline   Anacrusis 

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From what I have seen and heard, the sea gorgets only seem to have a large effect on ws with multihit, and seeing as such I don't thing that BH would benefit largely from one. For Hexastrike, it has fusion base, so Flame Gorget / Light Gorget will affect it. Black Halo is Fragmentation based, so Breeze / Thunder gorget will cover it.

(Edited because I finally figured out how the fuck the sea gorgets work.)
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#43
User is offline   xXxToyodaxXx 

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Ok~ I wasn't going to post, but I am at work, bored, so I am going to tell you all my view on WHM DD from both a solo view and a party view.


White mage as a solo: The only sub that you should have is NIN. Your survivalbility with the blessed gear and fastcast from rostrum pumps is insane. There can be exceptions made with RDM sub, however the DoT you do with Dual Clubs is much better. White mage as a solo is very ruff, however, you can chain skeletons in KRT (WAR Type mobs only) up to chain 5~6 with good gear, and also sticking all your enfeebles on them.



White mage as a Duo: This is where you can really shine. Me and another WHM friend duo greater manticores which check VT+ at 75, and though it is tough, we can get up to chain 3~5 on them before needing to take severe caution.



White mage as a DD: When you are actually going to DD as a actual party member, save yourself the hassle and don't do it... I know WHM can put out numbers and sometimes out shine others, just cure... Save the real DDing for the jobs that have the gear to put out consistant numbers. It's great that you want to help the party with your great damage, but the MP lose through the gear required to do so, and sub lose of MP is not worth it.


Your main focus as WHM is to keep your party alive and i'm sorry, but if you are engauged fighting, you severly gimp your parties survivalbility and your own. Stick back and just do what you do best. DD is for fun.


As a Tarutaru WHM/NIN my highest hexastrike record is 1679, and this was with a BRD giving me Double attack bonus. To what I know, on my server only one other WHM has a record higher than I, and his is by 10 points.
Kraken club is byfar one of the biggest wastes on a WHM/NIN for solo or for any Type of DD. If you are feeding a mob TP by doing 1point of damage the hassle it causes is not worth it. I know, I have used a kraken, and damn they are great skillup but that is about it. You may not do that low of damage, but why not just outlast the mob and let a better club do damage..? And as for races, it doesn't matter. A Taru can do near as much damage, but can out live an elvann, and an elvann can show very high WS but due to limited MP they fall short in the big picture (Not to pick on races or start a fight).


White Mage and the gear they should wear for DD:
Your most powerful non-dynamis WS is Hexastrike. For this Use STR & MND gear. I nearly full time this setup:
Main Hand: Sea Robber Cudgel
Off hand: Seawolf Cudglel
Ranged Slot/Ammo: Holy Ampulla
Head: Optical Hat/Walahra Turban
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Earring: Merman Earring
Earring: Suppanomimi
Body: Revrend Mail
Hands: Blessed mitts/Healers mitts
Ring: Sniper ring/Ruby Ring (Aqua rings are great for WS Macro - Rajas Ring is just sexy - Triumph is hot)
Ring: Sniper ring/Ruby Ring (Aqua rings are great for WS Macro - Rajas Ring is just sexy - Triumph is hot)
Back: Belicose Mantle/Republic army mantle (I use republic for WS)
Waste: Lifebelt/Swiftbelt
Legs: Blessed trousers
Feet: Rostrum pumps/Blessed pumps


Just toss yourself a haste, use reraise, stoneskin, utsusemi, and get to clubbing. I hope you WHM can learn from what I do and use. I know some of the stuff is hard to get and expensive, but use your best resources. If you have any questions or comment go ahead and PM me. Or email me. Please, if you have any descrepancies, there is no need for flaming or arguing, this is just what I use and do, and I know some WHM will say other body pieces are better, but this is just my view, and feel free to comment and add other things. WHM/NIN FTMFW!!!
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#44
User is offline   Hobain 

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excuse me
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#45
User is offline   Majhone 

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anyone capable of soloing tough+ mobs without using hexa or /NIN sub?
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#46
User is offline   Briganna 

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Force-Attuned Krogoth :
Now, if you're a whm and fighting skeletons, there's a bit of a modification that needs to be done, as those things are weak to blunt damage. I've heard it's a 25% bonus, but I'm not the expert in that.


The damage increase is 50%, same as daggers to bats and other assorted fleshy things. Simply put if you normally hit for 100 you will hit for 150 against bones.
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#47
User is offline   Force-Attuned Krogoth 

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Toyoda, I have one question. How in blaze's name do you manage to get any swings in between utsu, stoneskin, haste, and enfeebles? I've tried going whm/nin with quite a bit of evasion gear (and of course capped skill), some blessed, and rostrums. I'm a competent blinktank but I was casting full-time, and still running out of shadows. How in the world do you manage to survive anything and still have time to hit it with your clubs? That's my biggest trouble with /nin compared to /war, even on DC mobs.
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#48
User is offline   Arwyn 

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As whm/nin you can solo vt Heraldic Imps, their pretty fun to solo and give nice exp ^^


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#49
User is offline   R3sistance 

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(Bangugyangu)
4th, and MOST important, is delay reduction. Too many jobs fail to get delay reduction, and rely on other things. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. For a WHM, it can become absolutely GODLY.... and I'll explain why. let's say you're lvl 75 whm/nin not gimp, w/ Mjollnir main hand, Morgenstern off hand. this is, the highest Hexa Strike potential btw but with dual wield, your delay will be ~600. so you swing both weapons, every 6 seconds. however, add full blessed +1, and the new Walahra Turban, and you have instant 20% haste, + spell for another 20%.

Suddenly you're swinging every 4 seconds. and yeilding the same 16.5 TP each time. Now add Suppanomimi, Ninurta's sash, and Brutal Earring. Your delay, with both clubs, is reduced to 230ish. Now you're swinging 2 clubs, every 2.5 seconds, for 16.5 TP. with the potential for double attack from the brutal.

not to mention, you have 50% reduction on Ni recast :-p


These stats are wrong =P, forgot the Delay reduction from Dual Wield that is counted on TP formula. Ok Mjollnir at 308 delay and Morgenstern at 310 delay gives 618, say 15% dual wield if ungimped and Suppanomimi's 5%, that's -20% Weapon Delay reduction what counts in TP formula, TP per round you actually get is 12.175 =P. Ok the equipment given, forgetting the double attack gives a grand 23% Haste, Haste spell I believe is 15%, not 20% =P, so that's 38% haste not counted toward the TP formula, 58% delay reduction is huge now =P, giving a delay of 358.44 =O. so basically 358, or just over 3 and a half seconds.

Assuming you are getting 12~13% TP a round, it takes about 8~9 rounds to get 100% and with perfect accuracy you will take about 28~32 seconds to get 100% TP =P. Basically 2 hexa strike a minute if you doing nothing else, . Also as I said total haste was 38% =P, so that's 38% reduction on Utsusemi: Ni =P.

So just had to post up more accurate information then that XD.

Arwyn, What kind of gear you have when soloing the IMP ^^? =P?
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#50
User is offline   Arwyn 

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Main Weapon = Morgenstern
Sub Weapon = Seawolf Cudgel
Ammo = Attar Sachet
Head = Optical Hat or Walahra Turban
Neck = Evasion Torque (Chivalrous Chain for Hexa)
Ear1 = Evasion Earring (Minuet Earring for Hexa)
Ear2 = Evasion Earring (Merman Earring for Hexa)
Body = Reverand Mail
Hands = Blessed Mitts (Healer's Mitts for Hexa)
Ring1 = Ruby Ring
Ring2 = Ruby Ring
Back = Bellicose Mantle (Royal Army Mantle for Hexa)
Waist = Swift Belt
Legs = Blessed Trousers
Feet = Blessed Pumps
Food = Sole Sushi
Hexa Strike hits anywhere between 300-900 ^^; but usually for 600
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#51
User is offline   R3sistance 

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Ah cool, what I forgot to say above is -20% weapon delay would be 494.4 I think it was... so 494 is the number used to calculate the TP based on =P.

Hmmm I barely have any of that gear, Bar the Blessed gear, O-hat and AF mitts... oh and Bellicose Mantle, don't macro gear for hexa strike yet =P, lol ah well nice to see WHM can solo VTs like that ^^.
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#52
User is offline   Majhone 

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Arwyn :
As whm/nin you can solo vt Heraldic Imps, their pretty fun to solo and give nice exp ^^


except that WHM/NIN's cant use swords, axes, or wear that kind of gear.

unless your just .dat swapping.

btw, why do ppl .dat swap excatly. From what I gather, they do it to 'look cool'... cept the only person your impressing is yourself, so it kindof defeats the purpose, plus all the other PCs in the game get all screwed up if they are using the same gear. So not only are you only impressing yourself, but everyone else that dresses like you still looks the same.

Then when SE makes an update, all the sudden KI is full of "my ffxi is broke" when it does a file check and decides your installation is corrupt.
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#53
User is offline   xXxToyodaxXx 

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If u cast right, u can get all that done, if you want to watch me solo check me out sometime on phoenix
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#54
User is offline   R3sistance 

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Majhone :
Arwyn :
As whm/nin you can solo vt Heraldic Imps, their pretty fun to solo and give nice exp ^^


except that WHM/NIN's cant use swords, axes, or wear that kind of gear.

unless your just .dat swapping.

btw, why do ppl .dat swap excatly. From what I gather, they do it to 'look cool'... cept the only person your impressing is yourself, so it kindof defeats the purpose, plus all the other PCs in the game get all screwed up if they are using the same gear. So not only are you only impressing yourself, but everyone else that dresses like you still looks the same.

Then when SE makes an update, all the sudden KI is full of "my ffxi is broke" when it does a file check and decides your installation is corrupt.


lol it's either a data swap or there is gear there that no class with that much MP can wear and you can allways switch data files back before doing an installation. And updates are not really that intelligent they just overwrite files completely really... so the whole point from the start is if a file is touched, it's completely replaced =P.
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#55
User is offline   TrueRune 

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I don't WHM/NIN often because I am leveling BLM, but I do enjoy WHM/NIN'ing it.

Gear
Weapons:Dual Darksteels, I don't have the time to camp Pirates, but Morgenstern I can maybe go for.
Head: Walahara Turban / +MND gear for hexa?
Neck: Spike Necklace / +MND for Hexa?
Earrings: L. earring and that Hume DM earring. (Suppawhatever)
Body: Reverend Mail/ + MND for Hexa?
Hands: Blessed Mitts/ Will go for AF+1 hands once my LS does Temenos
Rings: Ruby ring and Tamas/ Can get another STR ring?
Back: Royal Army Mantle
Waist : Life Belt
Legs Blessed Trousers
Feet: (Level 60ish RSE)/ Rostrum pumps?

I duo'd w/ a WHM/NIN w/ both pirate clubs and Aqua rings, but I was outdoing his hexa's due to my STR+ gear.
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#56
User is offline   Ayrlie 

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75 whm/37 pld earlier today while soloing bones in eldime for a coffer key drop (along with trying to get some shield skill ups)




i was using tanking food, just darksteel maul, grand temple knight collar, blessed hands/pants, nobles, turban, strike shield, life belt, 2x phanlax, 2x death earrings. this was not my full fledged dd setup (it was my bones tanking setup).
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#57
User is offline   Redstarx 

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I prefer whm/rdm for solo on coffer mobs ect. /nin is good yea, but I just like /rdm for phalanx. when solo ill use mix of whm and my war eq so its normaly Flame ring/raja, pcharm/chiv chain, lifebelt(no swift ;;) Turban, used to macro af hands for ws but got rid of them. then normaly something cheap like sis for atk/str and brutal earring. Then use aristos, mahata legs/feet , rostrums sometimes, prism, and genbu. WHM/rdm good in ballista when numerous enemy. lol stoneskin+phalax+blazespikes vs a drk/nin using kclub just kills himself lol cant even break skin.
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#58
User is offline   Yuba 

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:loveI've been having some hard time getting to 200 I've tried kuftal but I get a .1 or .2 skill up every 20mins so I went to to the tree
After an hour there I didn't get a single skill up :/ can anyone give me some suggestions on where to skill up? Any help is appriciated!
:3 :love
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#59
User is offline   Briganna 

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Yuba :
:loveI've been having some hard time getting to 200 I've tried kuftal but I get a .1 or .2 skill up every 20mins so I went to to the tree
After an hour there I didn't get a single skill up :/ can anyone give me some suggestions on where to skill up? Any help is appriciated!
:3 :love


For club I did:
1-65 = Solo in dunes
65-80 = Solo in qufim
80-100 = Solo in Jungles
100-114 = Solo on bees in entrance of CN
114-135 = Solo on CN xp mobs lvl 40-50 (crawlers, flys, exos)
135-170 = GC coffer mobs with random key parties (135 is a bit low so use sushi and acc gear)
170-195 = Beastmen stronghold (davoi etc.) coffer mobs with random key parties (170 is a bit low so use sushi and acc gear)
195-251 = Steelshells in tree (by sleepga II nm) with skill up pt or Light elementals in sky(195 is a bit low so use sushi and acc gear). I could have capped
out club here but was only 74 at the time
251-256 = Pots in sky while water farming with LS

.1 and .2 skill ups will happen in some areas but if you move to a harder area you'll just get like one .5 an hour so not rly much improvement. I can't stress this enough to have loads of acc gear and use sushi at all times (cheapest you can find is ok, not rly concerned with damage here). When you start reaching the maximim for an area you'll usually notice a sharp decline in how fast you get skill ups but best to just tough it out. Once you reach 220 and get Hexa strike, sub nin. Keep the accuracy on and watch how you surpass everyone in your skill up with x2 hits and x6 hits from ws tongue.gif

From your post it seems like you're having problems right around the 200 mark. I too had this problem while my 75nin friend and I were lvling npcs in Kuftal tunnel. I was in there for about 1.5hrs and never got so much as a .1 passed 192. After that we had enough and tried doing crabs and gobs in Cape terrigan. They took awhile to duo but nin was going for parrying skill anyway so he rly didn't care. We were only there for like an hour but in that hour I managed to go 192-194.7. If you don't have a high lvl nin or thf/nin friend to duo these with I highly suggest just loading up on acc gear/food and hitting up tree or sky for as long as it takes.
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#60
User is offline   Allowei 

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Just to drop some info:
Hexa Strike Mods: STR:20% MND:20%
Black Halo Mods: STR:30% ; MND:50%

So that being said, if you wanted to try to go for a higher BH, stack up the MND gear. I currently use Sea Rob. on mainhand and Darksteel on offhand. Was thinking of camping silverhook, but i'd be losing +ATK. If someone has the set do you get more ATK with Darksteel or with Sea Wolf? Current Hexa record is a 1364 w/o food.
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