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QUOTE
Original written by Trey
I talked to Dragonhope ingame and she thought it was a good idea to make this post so here it is. As many fellow thieves know groups arent always the most considerate when it comes to our requirements for our abilities to work. Other people feel free to add to this list, I just want to start it off. This isnt for other thieves, its meant for people who group with thieves
1. Before level 15 thieves are fairly useless in groups (in comparisn to other jobs) but they're always quite hard to solo with. If you're levelling low level jobs and see a thief try to invite them if you can. They'll really appreciate it and likely be a valuable member who tries very hard due to the difficulty of finding groups.
2. After 15 the usefulness of a thief in the group dramatically increases but people still leave them out. Why get a 3rd warrior when theres a thief out there? People often underestimate the abilities of thieves then are shocked when they find out how good they can be. If you think they're useless give them a chance to prove you wrong.
3. The bane of the thieves existence: Tanks who wont stay still for sneak attack. If you are provoking or getting hate DON'T run around like an idiot. Yes, it might look cool to run around while swinging, it might give you a better view of whats going on but dont do it. Seriously. After the last patch sneak attack is quite picky on placing and the thieves have to be directly behind the monster for it to work. Tanks who run around and mess up sneak attack really piss off thieves. Its a 1minute refresh and instead of hitting for up to 10x the damage (more if stacked with a WS) they hit for normal and need to wait for it to recycle. Stay still.
4. The 2nd bane of the thieves existence: Tanks who wont stay still for trick attack. Trick is a very useful skill for keeping the hate on the tank. If you've ever tanked you will know that sometimes even with provoking and hitting you just cant keep the aggro off the mages who need to spam cures/nukes. This is where trick attack comes in... The thief is able to transfer a load of hate onto you allowing the monster to stay stuck on you easier. For this to work, however, the thief must be directly behind you. Most of the time when I try to do this the tank will run away thinking I'm reaching for their ass or whatever (I dont know why) which then makes me miss. I dont know if its true but I've heard if you miss with trick you (the thief) get the aggro instead. Since I've been aggroed plenty of times this way I tend to think its true.
If you dont want to get your thief killed/pissed off at you then stay still at all times, whether it be sneak or trick attack. Your job is to stand and be a wall between the monster and mages.. walls dont move so you dont need to either
Let the thieves do their job.
5. This #5 isnt really necessarily but its something I thought I'd mention. Thieves can pull pretty well due to avoiding mobs with their radar but IMO they are better off staying at camp. If they stay at camp and you pull a mob you can give a warning so that the thief can ready sneak attack. After a few pulls the thief can get the timing down so they have 5-10 seconds remaining on sneak and can get another one in fast. This helps to kill the monster quicker and the xp coming faster. 2 sneaks in a row can get a lot of aggro which is where Trick comes in. They can toss the hate back onto you.
6. When theres more then 1 tank in the group designate one of them as the initial provoker and maintank. Other tanks leave the monster on them and only pull off if they get low on HP or provoke if it goes after a weaker party member (like mages). This makes partying go smoother as you know where the hate is but also serves another function. If the maintank/provoker goes on 1 side and one of the additional tanks on the opposite the thief can sneak/trick from behind the monster and tank resulting in huge damage. This will of course pull aggro onto the tank behind so at that point toss a provoke on and allow the thief to switch over to the other one, or the maintank can voke it off.
If anyone else has suggestions for grouping with thieves just post them up. It can be very frustrating as a thief in group because people dont allow them to use their abilities. Stay still tanks!!
I talked to Dragonhope ingame and she thought it was a good idea to make this post so here it is. As many fellow thieves know groups arent always the most considerate when it comes to our requirements for our abilities to work. Other people feel free to add to this list, I just want to start it off. This isnt for other thieves, its meant for people who group with thieves
1. Before level 15 thieves are fairly useless in groups (in comparisn to other jobs) but they're always quite hard to solo with. If you're levelling low level jobs and see a thief try to invite them if you can. They'll really appreciate it and likely be a valuable member who tries very hard due to the difficulty of finding groups.
2. After 15 the usefulness of a thief in the group dramatically increases but people still leave them out. Why get a 3rd warrior when theres a thief out there? People often underestimate the abilities of thieves then are shocked when they find out how good they can be. If you think they're useless give them a chance to prove you wrong.
3. The bane of the thieves existence: Tanks who wont stay still for sneak attack. If you are provoking or getting hate DON'T run around like an idiot. Yes, it might look cool to run around while swinging, it might give you a better view of whats going on but dont do it. Seriously. After the last patch sneak attack is quite picky on placing and the thieves have to be directly behind the monster for it to work. Tanks who run around and mess up sneak attack really piss off thieves. Its a 1minute refresh and instead of hitting for up to 10x the damage (more if stacked with a WS) they hit for normal and need to wait for it to recycle. Stay still.
4. The 2nd bane of the thieves existence: Tanks who wont stay still for trick attack. Trick is a very useful skill for keeping the hate on the tank. If you've ever tanked you will know that sometimes even with provoking and hitting you just cant keep the aggro off the mages who need to spam cures/nukes. This is where trick attack comes in... The thief is able to transfer a load of hate onto you allowing the monster to stay stuck on you easier. For this to work, however, the thief must be directly behind you. Most of the time when I try to do this the tank will run away thinking I'm reaching for their ass or whatever (I dont know why) which then makes me miss. I dont know if its true but I've heard if you miss with trick you (the thief) get the aggro instead. Since I've been aggroed plenty of times this way I tend to think its true.
If you dont want to get your thief killed/pissed off at you then stay still at all times, whether it be sneak or trick attack. Your job is to stand and be a wall between the monster and mages.. walls dont move so you dont need to either
Let the thieves do their job.
5. This #5 isnt really necessarily but its something I thought I'd mention. Thieves can pull pretty well due to avoiding mobs with their radar but IMO they are better off staying at camp. If they stay at camp and you pull a mob you can give a warning so that the thief can ready sneak attack. After a few pulls the thief can get the timing down so they have 5-10 seconds remaining on sneak and can get another one in fast. This helps to kill the monster quicker and the xp coming faster. 2 sneaks in a row can get a lot of aggro which is where Trick comes in. They can toss the hate back onto you.
6. When theres more then 1 tank in the group designate one of them as the initial provoker and maintank. Other tanks leave the monster on them and only pull off if they get low on HP or provoke if it goes after a weaker party member (like mages). This makes partying go smoother as you know where the hate is but also serves another function. If the maintank/provoker goes on 1 side and one of the additional tanks on the opposite the thief can sneak/trick from behind the monster and tank resulting in huge damage. This will of course pull aggro onto the tank behind so at that point toss a provoke on and allow the thief to switch over to the other one, or the maintank can voke it off.
If anyone else has suggestions for grouping with thieves just post them up. It can be very frustrating as a thief in group because people dont allow them to use their abilities. Stay still tanks!!
QUOTE
Original by Dragonhope
If Trick Attack misses, you just do a normal attack. No hate is transferred to anyone at all. Thieves can do a LOT of damage or very LITTLE damage depending on the tank and cooperating of party members. Also he's something i'd like to toss up.
7. If your job is to be supporting the party and you have provoke, set up a strategy where you provoke the monster first so the Thief can use Trick + Sneak attack to transfer an immense load of hate to the Tanker (Paladin or Warrior). This will allow more freedom from mages to cast their spells.
All the high levels i've talked to say thieves are very useful. It also wouldn't surprise me if they're very picky/rude like I usually am when my party isn't cooperating with me. We've had a lot of things to deal with and the last thing we really want is a stupid party. So if we seem touchy then it's because we're getting agitated by people not letting us do our jobs properly. So remember this tanks, Stay still when tanking!.
If Trick Attack misses, you just do a normal attack. No hate is transferred to anyone at all. Thieves can do a LOT of damage or very LITTLE damage depending on the tank and cooperating of party members. Also he's something i'd like to toss up.
7. If your job is to be supporting the party and you have provoke, set up a strategy where you provoke the monster first so the Thief can use Trick + Sneak attack to transfer an immense load of hate to the Tanker (Paladin or Warrior). This will allow more freedom from mages to cast their spells.
All the high levels i've talked to say thieves are very useful. It also wouldn't surprise me if they're very picky/rude like I usually am when my party isn't cooperating with me. We've had a lot of things to deal with and the last thing we really want is a stupid party. So if we seem touchy then it's because we're getting agitated by people not letting us do our jobs properly. So remember this tanks, Stay still when tanking!.
I'm quoting this because all of it isn't mine and I just copied and pasted. I'm still the moderator of the Theive's guild in my old LS so this information is not stolen.
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