[Cream Soda]

Frisk :
Has anyone tried Mnk/Dnc in uncapped? This is my new project. I wonder how hard it would be to kill! And you can heal all those annoying status spells mages love to torture you with. Maybe land a grav on someone so they can't run away easily.

Seems like it gives mnk more mobility to run around the battlefield and actually play defense at rooks - solo style.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Dnc is almost 37.

I've done this before and it didn't even perform that well BEFORE the /dnc nerf. It probably just straight up sucks now. Fighting any heavy DD (2handers sam or /sam), they can deal damage faster than you can heal yourself. Also, dnc sub helps your opponent live longer, not just you. Thanks to no asuran/howling for 400-700 dmg.

In conclusion not really worth it. 35 tp to cure what, 165ish HP. With the lack of defense from subs like war pld and blu, after you take a 600 dmg ws, you can go ahead and spedn 100+ tp going back to where you started.

[Frisk]

Damn, I didn't even know dnc got nerfed already. >< I've been out of the game for 6 month hiatus. Well, I guess I'll just finish the sub anyways and have it lying around for wutevers. I'll prolly still experiment with it. Cuz going /war all the time gets boring. We'll see how bad /dnc gets owned and then go back to /war. XD

btw - have you ever tried the evasion setup in pashow with /dnc? that would be the only uncapped match I'd actually bring mnk/dnc to.

[Cream Soda]

2hand vs Eva build (which usually tends to have paper thin defense as well)

I'd strongly recommend against it.

If you're tired of subbing war, try sam or drg if you want the DD aspect or blu/pld if you want the defensive aspect. THeres a lot of neat things that can be done with /blu besides cocoon. If you're interested, PM me.

[Frisk]

I fuckin LOL'd at that pic.

BTW: Mnk/Dnc is great for Pashow/Meri Mtn. Stick with /War or other subs for Jugner for better zergs.

I'd only use /Dnc in uncapped. /War is much stronger in 60's.

[Ciaran]

[lolwtfbbq]

Lulz @ him.

Thats kinda sad. Let all make stuff up to make oourselves look cool ya?

[saiben]

Hello all. while I would like to propose two other PvP set-ups for MNK, one of which I've tested, the other not so much. first-
Counter focus- while i know this wont work on Mage classes too well you should still have enough damage output to take them out if you play your cards right. The idea of this is to stack as much counter plus as possible use counterstance and welee on the guys. it can be very effective, lol. i wouldnt suggest /NIN for this, kinda defeats the purpose, but any of the other normal SJs should do just fine.

the second is a bit different and probably going to be discredited. most of us have used it just not for PvP. and that is chi blast set up. Consider it. /WHM, stack as much MND and MP as you can, keep yourself alive with heals stoneskin and blink while you spam boost, take out any shadows with diaga and chi blast them to oblivion. I want to test this out i think it has potential... opinions from the MNK community please

[Konda]

So I guess you've never actually ballista'd before.

1st build: Counterstance is good vs Kclub, hundred fists and dual weilders in 1v1 situations only. Even then, I normally only use it against a hundred fists or Kclub user and AFTER he's weaponskilled.

However, counter requires your enemy to be within a ~90 degree cone infront of you (you need to be able to see them in 1st person view) and people rarely stand still in ballista. This leaves you wide open to the side and to the rear. Using counterstance is a sure fire way to get yourself killed in the majority of situations you encounter in ballista.


2nd build: Chi blast ignores shadows, so dont need diaga.

however, running round in full mnd build and /whm makes you a walking gatebreach. your defence is going to suck, you're going to have very little offencive capabilities (although I guess can use faith h2h). trying to find someone to kill at the right time chi blast is boosted up isnt always that simple.
Quarrying while you have boost active isnt an option either, because if you get an item, you will lose boost.
not to mention, chi blast damage is reduced in ballista, you're not going to go around 1shotting people every 3mins.
your best bet is to do a halfassed mnd build (faith torque/h2h, osode, suzy boots) and follow up a fairly potent chi blast with a weaponskill and/or faith h2h melee damage. going out of your way to stack mind probably isnt going to end well, and i wouldnt recommend /whm, especially not in uncap.

[Cream Soda]

Well from the time the herald lets you walk till the time the match starts, you have enough time to get in 12 boosts right as the match starts. I usually open all my matches with chi on some douche i hate

[Frisk]

Cream Soda, on 17 March 2009 - 02:24 PM, said:

Well from the time the herald lets you walk till the time the match starts, you have enough time to get in 12 boosts right as the match starts. I usually open all my matches with chi on some douche i hate

lol <3

[Espio22]

here are the best setups for 30-75 (not gonna list 80+ because i dont really know whats best for it.)
30 cap:
Mnk/nin or Mnk/Drg do the best to stay alive/kill decently. if not those, then /war.
Boreas Cesti
HP+ egg or Sachet.
Emperor Hairpin
Tiger Stole
Dodge Earringx2 (Wyvern Earring if /Drg Sub)
Federation Gi
Battle Gloves
HQ rings that give DEF/Rajas Ring.
Nomad's Mantle +1 (Wyvern Mantle if /Drg Sub)
Purple Belt
Martial Slacks
Federation Kyahan/Rambler's Gaiters.


40cap:
Mnk/nin is best for survival.
Gear depends on if you have merits for raging fists or not.
Boreas, Tourney patas or mythril +1 if you have merits.
HP egg/sachet
Emperor Hairpin
Peacock Charm/Tiger Stole
Dodge Earrings/Intruder Earring/Cassie Earring
lv33 eva+5 doublet/Jujitsu Gi.
Horomusha Kote
Jaeger Ring/Rajas Ring.
Nomad's +1
Brown belt
Jujitsu Sitabaki/Republican Subligar
Fuma Kyahan/Federation Kyahan/Rambler's Gaiters.


50cap:
Mnk/nin mnk/war mnk/drg are all good in this.
Patas +1
HP egg/Sachet/Optical Needle
Emperor Hairpin/Crow+1/Voyager Sallet
Peacock Charm/att+6 dex+2 gorget
Storm loop/Dodge Earring/Velocity Earring/Cassie Earring/Intruder Earring
Crow +1
Horomusha
Phalanx Ringx2 (good augments are easy to get on these)
Jaeger Mantle, Nomad's Mantle +1
Brown Belt
Crow +1
Crow+1/Fuma Kyahan.


60cap:
Mnk/pld is by far the most effective, very good hp, def, and hits for 50-80 on different jobs, very good for the team. otherwise /sam or /nin
Spartan/Hydro +1
Bibiki Seashell
lv57 Eva+7 headband
Peacock charm/Cchain
intruder/Cassie Earring/Elusive earrings
SH+1
Protecting Bangles
Phalanx ringx2/or Lavas's+Kusha's.
Behemoth Mantle +1
Brown Belt
Master's Sitabaki +1/Temple Hose.
Fuma/Temple Hose/Battle Boots +1 (the ACC EVA+3 ones)


75cap:
mnk/sam or mnk/pld does best here
Destroyers/Faith Baghnaks
Black Tathlum/Faith Stone
Genbu's Kabuto
Faith Torque
Brutal Earring/Easir Ear Pendant
Kirin's Osode/Shura/Hachiryu/Usukane
Bandomusha Kote
Lavas's+Kusha's/new def+20 rings/jelly ring/defending ring/shadow ring
att+20 sea mantle/Boxer's Mantle/cerb+1/Forager's/Amemet+1/cuchulain's
Black Belt
Byakko's Haidate or ASA Haste+3 Movement +8
Usukane Sune-ate/Fuma Sune-ate/Herald's Gaiters.


any of these sets will give the offending team a very tough time killing you, and will help you have the funnest time you can as a mnk in ballista, good luck and have fun.

[Cream Soda]

/blu is way better than /nin in pretty much any cap you have access to cocoon (which is all of them).


30 cap: RSE gloves if hume, spike necklace > tiger sole

50 cap: At this point, should really be thinking about how much dmg you take since there are actual defense options now. That being said, Crow > empress/voyager, because neither of those 2 heads offer nothing for defense, which is essentially +x attack to everyone trying to hit you.


60 cap: /blu > /pld here as well. Cocoon enough makes it worth it, but there are other useful spells, such as sproutsmack, which slows the enemy (w/ high land rate) and you'll indirectly take less dmg that way. Battledance wipes third eye, regardless of seigan status in 1 go, queesyshroom wipes shadows. Sheepsong is high land rate on sleep, good for general use or for trying to score.

Can't go wrong w/ AF here in 60 cap. Near, if not, highest defense available at this level. Only thing I'd usually swap is hands, which protecting bangles are good, but sometimes I'll use pallas. Same reason I don't generally use SH+1. -ice is bad. More susceptible to paralyze and bind and if your opponents have a smart mage, it's easy to take advantage of.

75 cap: This is where /blu really shines. You get so much in options of defense gear (and remember cocoon is a percentage), you really get the most out of the subjob here. Especially w/ the MP from osode and number of spells you can equip.

For /blu (or /pld. I rly only use pld for 1 v 1 vs rng or drg though), ethereal earring. The recovered mp helps

Charger mantle: No reason to own one as a mnk. It's a waste of ABCs. Those would better be used for a flawless ribbon, if you're that crazy about ballista. Charger mantle is trash, in and outside of ballista

Also, you left out shadow mantle (which is weird because you have shadow ring for rings, and that's tougher to get than the mantle)

For feet, you're leaving out herme's sandals (Seeing how easy they are to get over herald's). Other than that, you left out suzy boots, if you're going for a defense build. The haste shoes don't help as much since, you're not constantly melee'ing, a lot of running in and out, and swapping targets.

Honorable mention to melee gloves(+1) for enhancing chakra, which I think is a fair tradeoff from the benefits of bandomusha

[Espio22]

yeah i left a few gear options out, it was pretty late when i posted this lol, was just bored and put what i usually use/see in any other mnks i see ballista. but i've never used /blu so i wouldnt know.

[Banter]

Espio22, on 15 September 2010 - 04:07 PM, said:

yeah i left a few gear options out, it was pretty late when i posted this lol, was just bored and put what i usually use/see in any other mnks i see ballista. but i've never used /blu so i wouldnt know.

So basically you're a terrible ballista player giving terrible ballista advice? Got it.

[Espio22]

would'nt say that, im just not really use to seeing any mnk/blu ballista on my server, only 60caps go on nowadays, and only during jp primetime. and mostly any mnk that goes subs /sam or /pld. i've had 1 mnk/blu on a team in diorama that did terrible, so i never really gave any interest into trying it out, because it didnt seem to work out for them, i probably shouldnt have posted when i was tired since i did miss some important items, that was my bad. but im not at all a horrible player in ballista, even though our server never really shows interest in it. im also use to 3-6 people on a team when uncapped OM/diorama actually happens, so /sam usually beats anything on that since noone really goes for the mnk in the first place.

[Pikkiwoki]

I used to be a big fan of /BLU, but it has some major downsides. Especially in 60 cap, there are a lot of warriors, dark knights and thieves who can make your cocoon useless with acid bolts. This could be countered with evasion gear, but there's usually someone who will land bolts on you regardless.

Another problem with /BLU is your very limited MP pool. All it takes to make your subjob useless is an Aspir or two.

Even if /BLU didn't have these downsides I'd still prefer /WAR most of the time because it offers both, offensive and defensive benefits. After all, it's not too difficult to ignore the MNK/BLU and use them as an MP source while focusing on killing the more powerful DDs or mages. If it were a berserked MNK/WAR dealing a lot more damage and constantly provoking the healer, you'd have to do something about it. However, this only applies to team games. I can still see /BLU being useful in some 1 on 1 fights.

As for the gear setups, here's what I generally use in 60 cap:

Black adargas+1/Bibiki seashell
Zeal cap+1/Chivalrous chain/Intruder earring/Cassie earring
Temple cyclas/Protecting bangles/Phalanx ring x2(both augmented with ice resist)
Behemoth mantle+1/Brown belt/Enkidu's subligar/Sarutobi kyahan

[Cream Soda]

Berserk on anything, including the mage, will get you raped by everyone else. Cocoon isn't the only thing that /blu has going for it anyhow. As for being acid bolted, it has a 1 min recast, so it's not a big deal. But if you get your defender dispelled or lethe watered (or zerk) that's not coming back for a long while, so it works both ways.

As far as defender goes it's trash. Cocoon is 50% defense, defender is -25% attack and +25% defense.

If your attack is higher than your defense, you lose more attack than defense you gain, and your enemy benefits from your use of defender more than you do, provided you're attacking him and not just trying to run away.

Berserk is also a double edged sword. You gain attack, but it's the same as giving the enemy free attack as well.

Berserk makes you useless defensively and defender makes you useless offensively.


As for mp, I generally don't have a problem between ethers and my 4 mp merits. Though if anyone gets too trigger happy on aspir, they eat dirt enough times and to the point where they don't really fuck w/ me much after that.

[Pikkiwoki]

You're just going to eat another acid bolt after re-casting Cocoon, so the recast doesn't really make a difference.

Getting away with berserk shouldn't be too hard unless you're the opponent's main target. Just don't use it where they can see you. And you can always cancel it if needed.

You shouldn't be using defender when being attacked by just one person, but it's great when you're being teamed on. In this case your team benefits more from it.

Even if you make the DRK who's constantly casting Aspir your main target, they should still be able to take your MP before being killed. And a good DRK who can land an acid bolt on you will probably be able to kill a MNK/BLU anyway. If it's a RDM, there's nothing you can do about it on your own.

/BLU is great if your opponents do nothing to counter it and still target you a lot for some reason.