[gaki]

ok im a mithra DRK--which owns-- so i dont really need to sub thf for the dex

as of now i sub war.... but ppl say that subbing sam is only worth it after lvl 60DRK... i tend to disagree... i have a friend who is a sam and their tp build is insane, so i was looking at the latent traits of a sam and even at lvl 30drk/15sam you have a lot of good traits one more importantly being store tp-- you also have third eye which rocks.. sure you lsoe out on berserk--- but you got last resort anyways and souleater is good enough on its own lol

also subbing sam you get a lot more atk power then you do subbing thf and although you dont get sneak attack who cares your tp builds faster and on the whole you deal more damage and if you are a mithra (like i am) you dont miss all that much. I mean as a mithra DRK my freakin dex is my highest stat and my atk is still really high-- in pts of elven wars using scyth and elvan DRKS using scyths i still deal more damage over time, but thats beside the point

basically i want to know why people seem to think that subbing sam before getting DRK to lvl 60 is bad? I can maybe understand it being bad if i was an elvaan but guess what IM NOT XD

[Feii]

TP store will only give you 2-3 more TP points per hit and scyth is a very very slow weapon. ALso imo DRK weapon skills are good for solo and not chains because you gain TP so slow atleast in my experince. I think you should worry about doin more damage with berserk hit per hit then gettin your WS ready 1 or 2 hits earlier.

But then again im a SAM and not a big fan of people saying my job sucks and should only be used as a sub.

[Damnation]

It's pretty bad. There aren't much added benefits to subbing sam before 60. Thief is pretty much the same. There is no question that war is the only way to go pre-60.

Losing Berserk, Double attack, Provoke, Defender, for a 1-2 tp back, not worth it at all.

To be honest, you don't really see the effects of "missing" as a drk until later levels.

[Meo]

I subbed thf since I was a level 1 drk ^^/ My war is... at level 7... only for provoke to raise my thf... and for the drk quest o.oa

I've no intention of ever subbing war if I have any say ^^a

[Rensei Ryo]

Ive never tried subbing Samurai with DRK but when I tried subbing it with Monk, I noticed a rather harsh trend. The inherantly low accuracy of the Samurai will show up in any job linked to it. The exception is of course, jobs that have a bonus to accuracy.

Even being fully equipped with dex and accuracy gear, having Samurai as a sub made me hit about 40% less than when I had Warrior as a sub (this was at level 27 in Kazham).

[Damnation]

There is no question that subbing a something else (other than war) will not stop you from getting exp. But, war sub will give you the best drk can offer to a pt.

[Meo]

I beg to differ ^^a

But, until I raise a lvl 30ish war sub to see for myself, I can't really say that you're wrong :3 I can only say that I've plenty to offer to my pt.

[Damnation]

Meo- I am talking about pre-60. As this is what we were talking about.

You can't really say that sneak attack will benefit the pt more than provoke, berserk, double attack, defender... can you? =/

[Moxteth]

I would argue against drk/war being better for a pt after lvl 40, as a drk/thf i generate enough hate that i can consistantly get the aggro off of the main tank, which is a bad thing. If i had provoke, berser, dbl attack, i'd be dead every fight. And this is with good pld main tanks, i've grouped with bad ones and died regularly. There is a point where you CAN do too much damage heh, i have to use my spells regularly just to slow my damage output.

[NovaLogic]

Yep, you guys certainly give me a work out. I'm pretty much always able to keep aggro when your skills are used individually, but I've only been able to keep aggro once against Zerk/LR/Souleater stacked once.

[Caladan]

Moxteth :
I would argue against drk/war being better for a pt after lvl 40, as a drk/thf i generate enough hate that i can consistantly get the aggro off of the main tank, which is a bad thing. If i had provoke, berser, dbl attack, i'd be dead every fight. And this is with good pld main tanks, i've grouped with bad ones and died regularly. There is a point where you CAN do too much damage heh, i have to use my spells regularly just to slow my damage output.

since the damage is more spread out (unlike sneak).. berserk and double attack doesnt draw the instant aggro... leaving time to your tank to keep it. You do not use provoke unless absolutly necessary. the only time a good tank well lose aggro is when you go souleater ( even so , good paladins dont even lose it then) . i have try sam , war and thf as sub during lev 30-35 and WAR was the overall best. For me anyway.

[gaki]

ya im thinkin im gonna keep war as my sub, ive been satisfied with it so far and besides its already lvl up to 30 so i wont have to lvl it till i get DRK to 60+ which wont be for a loooooooooooong ass time im sure (although i was able to get it up to 33 in one week XD)

[Anakie]

...I love DRK/WAR so far... It is INCREDIBLE!! ^^ My online "twin" is a Paladin, so we always party together... What an awesome team, I must say. Sometimes, we will train together... I will take all of the hate and see if she can take it back! ^^ We have a lot of fun. And the training really helps... Because of the training, when I party with her (which is every day...haha), currently, at level 32DRK/16WAR, I am able to hit the mob for 150+ each time with either Berzerk or Last Resort on, use some elemental spells on the mob, use Soul Eater, Drain the mob... and then use Aspir with no problems at all! Somehow, she keeps the hate with all of her Provokes and Cures. It is just so awesome. At 60DRK though, I suppose I will turn to DRK/THF like everyone suggests.

[Damnation]

You don't have to be a DRK/THF, if you don't want. DRK/WAR is fine. On midgard, 60-75, its pretty much half DRK/WAR and DRK/THF.

I'm sticking with war. I NEED Berserk and Provoke. Warcry will be nice later on too. But I will level SAM and THF later on for variety.

[Kosmos]

I'm a DRK/WAR and I've seen many tangible benefits not realized with a DRK/???

Case in point. Last night, we were in E Alt and with some TP to burn, brought out a Dhalmel to fight to cap our chain at #4. Or, that was our good intentions.

Little did we realize that this, of all the dhalmels at this point, was the one that would've killed us all (esp with his crazy healing wind).

Our PLD, she is so awesome! But, she kept hate TOO well, despite myself and my friend a DRG causing lots of damage. We pulled off a renkei and then it started doing healing wind. OMG - that was an epic battle for the night.

This is where the voke as a DRK comes in handy. The DRG couldn't because of a sub THF. The MNK/WAR tried but could not. I could though and I basically saved our PLD with my voke. Would you have done this with a Sneak attack? Maybe, but that's also dependent on when Sneak is available when you already used it maybe one or twice in the battle.

With berserk + last resort + blood weapon + soul eater I spammed almost 450 dmg in 10 seconds and also capped it by killing the dhalmel with a Drain cast for 110 hp. I was near dead too, but I didn't care because PLDs take too much crap and I want to share some of their pain ^^;

But yes, I testify that good PLDs almost never lose hate with a DRK/WAR that uses his/her skill responsibly. I manage my hate, never use Last Resort unless PLD got enough hate that I can safely use it and only use Berserk (that never draws hate - only the subsequent criticals from it). Soul Eater for me is great for capping that last T on a long chain very quickly especially since I'm going to squat anyways to regain my MP ... ^^;

[Anakie]

Kosmos.... I hear ya. I have to save my sister Paladin a lot too from keeping hate too well!!!!!!! Sometimes she just can't cure herself because she's being hit too much. I will usually throw it ALL on just to get it's attention. Then she heals herself up and takes it away from me... As I drain drain drainnnn for my HP back ^^

Whenever she dies, she always says, "Well, a Paladin's got to do, what a Paladin's got to do." She died three times last night in Garliage Citadel from bad pulls. *sigh* She doesn't want to ever zone until EVERYONE in the party zones first. And we all know how some party members never get the idea to zone. And then she will die... T_T I wish she wouldn't think that way!! >.< Needless to say, we don't like Garliage Citadel!! Grrrr... I shouldn't have even EATEN mithkabobs since I couldn't HIT the stupid bats!! And I have a lot of +Dex items too. I think my Dex is like right at 40 as a level 33 DRK. Oh well.

[Rensei Ryo]

Monks and Paladins have intimate relations with the term "self-saccrifice". If they get along well, it can create some pretty funny circumstances. Just like your Paladin friend staying behind til everyone is safe, a fiesty Monk/Paladin duo might even stay in there a good ten seconds more just to have fun.

[Specialness]

well, i went on the other side of what many people think drks should be, which imo, is a very bad misconseption. i am a Drk/Rdm, and i must say, when i first started out, i wasnt too sure that i had made a good decision, but think about it. you get an hp/mp bonus for drk w/ rdm sub. the magic is just sweet how much more you get, but, your not weak, like you would be w/ just subbing blm w/ drk. plus, as odd and wrong as this is for a drk, i've acctually kept a few people alive w/ my cure spell, even though i rarely use it, it has come in handy in a few situations. i also had a war tell me i was her hero once when she realized that out of the whole pt, i was the only person who NEVER died, and i was really taking the hits, but w/ a drk/rdm combo, you can self maintain yourself in battle and keep youself alive and even help to a certain extent in keeping others alive. i guess i just wanted to go different for one, and two, i really wanted a more magical support job for the drk then just to be a "TANK" like most are. well, that is just me, and my opinion.

[einhander]

Anakie you said:

----------------------------------------
I shouldn't have

even EATEN mithkabobs since I couldn't HIT the stupid bats!! And I have a lot of +Dex items

too. I think my Dex is like right at 40 as a level 33 DRK. Oh well.
-------------------

---------------------

Does this mean eating Mithkabobs lower accuracy??
I thought

they were a dream drug.
pls tell me no :.(

[Drahz]

[

b]Damnation :[/b]
Meo- I am talking about pre-60. As this is what we were talking about.



You can't really say that sneak attack will benefit the pt more than provoke,

berserk, double attack, defender... can you? =/

Actually she has quite a

point. As sub thief you dont get sneak attack until level 30 main job. If you sub warrior,

you only benefit from provoke until you're level 30 when you finally gain the benefits of

berserk. And the other more useful ones such as double attack arent even gained until level

50. As a thief you definately benefit the party with treasure hunter/gil finder/sneak

attack. A DRK having provoke isnt really that helpful since they arent really made to tank

in the first place, Also if you dont mind waiting 10 levels later, a DRK/THF would get trick

attack as well, which, when stacked with sneak attack deals a LOT of damage. DRK/THF i would

say is about even with DRK/WAR but in no way inferior.