[Tainted]

No it didn't, you're dumb.

[Dragonhope]

Oh look...it's a cute troll. It's a Mithra too. Lucavi, she's all yours.

[Tainted]

I'm far from a troll. I just don't understand how some of my peers can be so stupid. Like, do you think if what you're saying makes sense before you hit the reply button?

[Canada]

Slightly harsh I think, Dragonhope's guide is very helpful for players just levelling Dragoon. My only gripe was a disagreement with the wording in regards to the Imperial Neza. Other than that, the guide is pretty flawless.

[Tainted]

Except it puts too much of an emphasis on acc. It makes a lot of stupid suggestions such as not using hecatomb gear for penta thrust unless you're eating sushi. It fails to mention that turban at all, but I guess ace's and askar head is easy to get for everybody compared to 20k ISP. You make stupid assumptions like Valkyrie's Fork not being so great, but it will always beat Mezraq in numbers. The only thing Mezraq has over it is the evasion down effect, which rarely if ever procs on HNM tier mobs and if your party desperately needs it in a pt then the party sucks already and you're an idiot for being in it. There's absolutely to mention of charger's mantle, arguably the best TP mantle you can get ranking right up there with Cerb+1, yet she mentions psiolis mantle which doesn't even compare to AM+1 at all...And she called it a slight upgrade? lol

I didn't even bother going to any lower levels because I was pretty disgusted with this lacklucter cluster fuck of text, since that's all it really is.

[Starr]

Charger's Mantle is fucking retarded

[Dragonhope]

Tainted :
Except it puts too much of an emphasis on acc. It makes a lot of stupid suggestions such as not using hecatomb gear for penta thrust unless you're eating sushi. It fails to mention that turban at all, but I guess ace's and askar head is easy to get for everybody compared to 20k ISP. You make stupid assumptions like Valkyrie's Fork not being so great, but it will always beat Mezraq in numbers. The only thing Mezraq has over it is the evasion down effect, which rarely if ever procs on HNM tier mobs and if your party desperately needs it in a pt then the party sucks already and you're an idiot for being in it. There's absolutely to mention of charger's mantle, arguably the best TP mantle you can get ranking right up there with Cerb+1, yet she mentions psiolis mantle which doesn't even compare to AM+1 at all...And she called it a slight upgrade? lol

I didn't even bother going to any lower levels because I was pretty disgusted with this lacklucter cluster fuck of text, since that's all it really is.

Uh..hello? The point of all that acc gear is to allow the Dragoon to use Meat when fighting INCREDIBLY TOUGH Monsters. NOT the VERY TOUGH Greater Colibris like what you've probably been doing. The goal of a DD is always to optimize the damage output. And it's been shown that wearing accuracy gear while eating attack food works the best overall. Also during the course of leveling, people are usually fighting IT monsters which have a much higher evasion rate then the common T-VT mobs that you're hitting at level 75. Also there are no merits yet unless Dragoon is your second job. My guide is not geared for people playing Dragoon as their second job so the problem of accuracy will still persist. Not everyone has a static with a BRD as they level the job. And there isn't as much of an emphasis on accuracy as you seem to think. You need to notice that it does not mention anything about merits or what jobs the other party members are anywhere in the guide. For me to hit a Greater Colibri at a comfortable rate, I wear Chiv chain, Assault Jerkin, Uthalams Ring, Swift Belt and Drachen Brais +1. If I remove any more then 4 accuracy, I feel that I miss too much as my accuracy rate goes below 85%. And this is with Polearm merits capped off. Without any polearm merits, BRD/COR, Acc food and no accuracy gear, I'd love to see you get above 80% accuracy rate on Greater colibris or Mamool Ja Lurkers.

As for the Penta Thrust thing, do you even know how the weaponskill works? It has always been about getting all 5 hits to connect before improving the damage of each hit and then modifiers. If you're eating meat and you're using Heca gear to try and Penta something like Kirin..yea...good luck doing more then 100 damage. Also my gear does not take into account Polearm merits a person might or might not have. If they have Polearm merits, they should be smart enough to gear themselves properly in accordance with it already. There's no point in pumping up Attack/STR/DEX for Penta thrust if you're only landing 1-3 of the 5 hits. If you can constantly get all 5 hits to land on a Greater Colibri with no Polearm merits, full Attack/STR/DEX gear setup and eating meat or having no food, then you either have a BRD and COR as well as a RNG in your pt (or at least a BRD playing double madrigal) or you're bullshitting. As I said already, my guide DOES NOT TAKE MERITS INTO ACCOUNT.

Turban? Oooh yea, lets all wear a turban for 5% haste guys! We won't get any extra swings or anything out of it but lets wear it anyway cause a retard told us it's good! Seriously...5% haste is going to do jack shit to a Dragoon. If you're going for a haste setup, you pretty much NEED other haste pieces. My guide is not discussing how effective a certain gear build is and such (pretty sure you haven't noticed that though) and the turban is ONLY useful for a haste setup. As for Askar or Ace's Helm, they're still quite effective even without the haste part. The Turban? The haste is the only important stat on it. Also anyone that can get some of the other haste pieces, should already be in a linkshell capable of doing Nyzul Assaults or killing KV. So it's just a matter of time before getting an Askar or Ace's Helm.

I'm sorry but because I don't praise the Valkyries fork like it was a godly weapon or something, I'm all of a sudden saying it's not a good weapon? Wow...talk about lack of comprehension. The Valkyrie's Fork is definitely a good weapon but it is NOT all that much better. I guess you must only fight Sea Puks and/or Greater Colibris only and not Mamools who have rather high evasion. But for those of us that have fought Mamools know the value of an Evasion down on them. Also saying that it doesn't proc often on HNMs leads me to believe that you've never done much HNM activities as a Dragoon. Either that or you were probably wiffing too much from having no accuracy on and eating meat since it seems that you're saying it's ok to miss a lot if your once a month hit does 250 damage instead of 200. From my experience, the proc rate of evasion down on HNMs have also been quite high. The only time the evasion down effect of the Mezraq won't be useful on a HNM is for times the HNM is manaburned and no melees are to be on it. Also I said it'll be on par with the Mezraq if you're unlucky (as in you get very little double attacks out of it) and only if you're unlucky or that it'll be better. But I guess you can't read cause it's a "lackluster cluster fuck of text."

Speaking of which...what the fuck do you think guides are other then blobs of text? You want me to add pictures so your kiddy mind can process the text into information? Pay me for it then. Are you saying you can write a better guide? Go ahead since I'm stupid. I don't know about you, but to me, +3 atk and +1 acc with -1 STR IS a small upgrade. If you were able to read properly, you'd have noticed that I said Amemet mantle and not Amemet Mantle +1 but I guess it's your lack of comprehension at work again. I will freely admit that I missed the Charger Mantle but I will also admit that 1.35m is a bit costly for -2 STR and +5 attack. Most people would also rather prefer not to have to press an extra macro to swap one more piece of gear then they normally have to do as well. And there are plenty of other slots that give a bigger boost to things that are important for TPing in that you can swap around in a single macro as well. While it's not "fucking retarded" like starr says, it's a weak piece for swapping in and out since the difference at best is 3.5-4 attack if compared to an Amemet Mantle +1.

I can ask the question you asked me to you as well. "Like, do you think if what you're saying makes sense before you hit the reply button?" If you really think you can write a better guide, then do it instead of criticizing only. Otherwise you're just an idiot that's complaining about having to read too much. In which case, you can ignore all the words that are in normal text (as in not bold or italic) and just read the words that are colored or bold.

Oh and if you can't bother yourself to read through all that text, I'm basically calling you an idiot.



Canada: You're right in that my wording was wrong about the Neza. When I re-read it, it did sound as if I was making out the Neza to be better then the Mezraq. Hopefully the paragraph I added afterwards will remedy that problem. Because I think the Neza is only on par with Mez/Thal in a full haste setup where it gives one more hit then the other two. If the damage difference between them is less then 20, they both come out with doing the same damage but the Neza would end up with more TP.

[Jaybar]

KI booted me off my account when I was done...so I have to re-write this again D:

Granted I know that your guide was published pre-2 handed buff and also before our new accuracy trait, but you don't need all that accuracy nowadays to effectively eat meat. Even at low levels you have access to a lot of accuracy especially post level 40, where you only need maybe 3 or 4 items of pure accuracy and focus on other beneficial stats.

As for Penta Thrust accuracy, you can't comfortably rely on Penta Thrust to connect all 5 hits. I think there is a cap on accuracy at about 80%? Someone needs to confirm that number because I know I've seen it thrown around a few times and not sure of the exact percentage.

5% haste is going to do jack shit to a Dragoon. If you're going for a haste setup, you pretty much NEED other haste pieces.

I'm going to get in on this before someone else flames you for this statement. Yes you are correct that you need other gear, but it's very easily obtainable gear. You can easily get Dusk Hands, Dusk Feet, Swift Belt to accompany the Turban for a nice chunk of 14% haste. That's quite a lot for a Dragoon, even though it can do better. Using only a Swift is useless, using only a Turban is useless, but you CAN obtain a decent haste build (which you seem to neglect). Price is no issue, because that is not the argument. The fact you can obtain it on your own via the Auction House should not hinder respect towards a haste build.


As for Mezraq, yes the Evasion Down is very nice for your party. Coming from a Dragoon that has used the Mezraq on every TP-able HNM, I find it somewhat pointless. Accuracy isn't much of an issue at all until you are blinded. It's the defense that always gets to me. I can land hits all I want, but if they are going to contact for 0 - 10 dmg, I find it fruitless (especially if my WS's are sub par).


Now, I don't think you should be putting down the Valkyrie's Fork that easily. Yes, as you said Evasion Down is helpful, but as I said, it's not always needed especially in merit parties (Although, we have previously agreed that Evasion Down > Other stats because it helps your party members, but in these times, no one xp's without at least a bard or corsair making accuracy a non-issue).

Let's take a look at the Fork:



Not only does it have 2 more Base damage than a Mezraq, it also includes 2 VERY beneficial stats for any Melee: Store TP and Double Attack. Let's build our Valkyrie's Fork with gear that is easily obtainable with a small group of people:

Askar Korazin - 5 sTP and 2% Double Attack
Brutal Earring - 1 sTP and 5% Double Attack
Rajas Ring - 5 sTP
Ares's Flanchard- 2% Double Attack

That totals to 12% Double Attack as well as 11 sTP. Both of those are HUGE advantages especially when coupled with the other stats on them. 11 sTP equates to an additional 1.1% TP per swing (Correct me if I'm wrong) giving you after 5 swings an additional 5.5% TP. They also don't hinder a haste build (Homam Cosciales I know, but it's a toss up in certain situations).



Now, you say "My guide is not discussing how effective a certain gear build is and such" but in fact that's exactly what you make a guide for. The fact you completely neglected a haste build's effectiveness just makes your guide opinion based moreso than factual based. I think you really need to take in other Dragoon's opinions/experiences rather than comment on your own.

[Tainted]

Well Dragon, I guess this is why your DRG has always sucked and will probably continue to suck for the rest of time. If you're going to write a guide, it would help a little if you could at least for a rational argument to defend yourself. Or to know how to the game works. You are playing the same game as us, correct?

I have over an 80% ACC rate on colibri, but my gear is exceptionally better than yours and I equip ACC with out trying. Also I have the pleasure of always having two BRD in the pt, one of them having relic horn not like it matters. I guess I'm lucky. I use the same exact gear for those lurkers you cry about and my ACC is just fine with meat. :dozingoff The mobs still die in 30 seconds or less. Oh, and DRG is my 6th DD job lol.

I land 4-5 hits on penta pretty often with my only ACC gear being hecatomb body and peacock charm(love torque when it drops). You should probably get your head out of your ass, and out of 2006. Greater Colibri aren't that evasive, even for my PLD or MNK who both eat food and land all hits on their WS usually too. I just think you suck.

What does Askar have over turban? 4 dex and 4 str? gtfo seriously. When you can parse the two together and tell me you see the difference between the 4 dex and 4 str on askar over turban, come talk to me. The fact that you don't mention turban but you mention askar as some godly piece of equip just shows you have the "it's rare it must be good" syndrome. Knowing how dumb you are, you'd probably wear homam head over turban.

I can +1 your stupid mamools, I party on demons in U.Range. That's retarded though, of course I party on mamools. I can tell you now that if the evasion down procs during a fight it makes no difference because the mobs usually die in a very short, and I mean 30 seconds amount of time. Why would I go to DRG to an HNM? We have people with useless jobs come to angon stuff we zerg. I have SAM for that, a far superior DD at any HNM. Or I come PLD and tank everything else. If you're so worried about evasion down at an HNM and coming DRG, I have some advice for you. Level another job, DRG sucks at HNM. Besides, sky guards aren't HNM. Serket, Roc, and Simurgh are no longer considered HNM. That being such, how can you speak about HNM experience when you've never fought any. But if your party needs that evasion down to proc while fighting mamools, you and all the other members of your party suck and don't deserve to exp there anyway.

I'm going to make it easy for you

Haste set up for DRG is not about getting in an extra melee swing. It's about getting TP as fast as possible, so you can WS faster. It's that simple. That is why a pure haste build is not the best build, but a haste and six hit TP build is the best. Getting TP 1 swing faster and using it over time will do more damage than doing one extra swing not even a quarter second faster. Haste will always be better with Mezraq than Neza, do the math you retard, it gives a higher return with Mez.

People will say a good piece of gear is retarded just because they can't obtain it. Charger's mantle is in theory free, or at most will cost you 90k to get 150 coins from 3 limbus runs, which is being generous since our LS easily gets 90+ when we do farm chips for Omega. Most people are stupid. If most people jumped off a bridge, would you do it too? I don't care what most people do. I out parse most people by over a good 5%. When you can party with a kikoku nin and be doing 13% more total damage on him, on mamools, then I don't care if other people are equipping Wolf mantle+1. The remains that, like Valkryie's Fork, it's better than what you have and if you don't want to improve yourself because you have to type two lines of text once, then you should probably level pup instead.

I don't need to write a guide though. If a person is worth a damn at this game they can figure out how to gear themselves with out an idiot like you telling them. Or they can just read your bullshit guide and realize you're retard and look for assistance else where.

[Starr]

Charger's Mantle is fucking retarded.

[Darkwill]

Jaybar :
KI booted me off my account when I was done...so I have to re-write this again D:

Granted I know that your guide was published pre-2 handed buff and also before our new accuracy trait, but you don't need all that accuracy nowadays to effectively eat meat. Even at low levels you have access to a lot of accuracy especially post level 40, where you only need maybe 3 or 4 items of pure accuracy and focus on other beneficial stats.

As for Penta Thrust accuracy, you can't comfortably rely on Penta Thrust to connect all 5 hits. I think there is a cap on accuracy at about 80%? Someone needs to confirm that number because I know I've seen it thrown around a few times and not sure of the exact percentage.

5% haste is going to do jack shit to a Dragoon. If you're going for a haste setup, you pretty much NEED other haste pieces.

I'm going to get in on this before someone else flames you for this statement. Yes you are correct that you need other gear, but it's very easily obtainable gear. You can easily get Dusk Hands, Dusk Feet, Swift Belt to accompany the Turban for a nice chunk of 14% haste. That's quite a lot for a Dragoon, even though it can do better. Using only a Swift is useless, using only a Turban is useless, but you CAN obtain a decent haste build (which you seem to neglect). Price is no issue, because that is not the argument. The fact you can obtain it on your own via the Auction House should not hinder respect towards a haste build.


As for Mezraq, yes the Evasion Down is very nice for your party. Coming from a Dragoon that has used the Mezraq on every TP-able HNM, I find it somewhat pointless. Accuracy isn't much of an issue at all until you are blinded. It's the defense that always gets to me. I can land hits all I want, but if they are going to contact for 0 - 10 dmg, I find it fruitless (especially if my WS's are sub par).


Now, I don't think you should be putting down the Valkyrie's Fork that easily. Yes, as you said Evasion Down is helpful, but as I said, it's not always needed especially in merit parties (Although, we have previously agreed that Evasion Down > Other stats because it helps your party members, but in these times, no one xp's without at least a bard or corsair making accuracy a non-issue).

Let's take a look at the Fork:



Not only does it have 2 more Base damage than a Mezraq, it also includes 2 VERY beneficial stats for any Melee: Store TP and Double Attack. Let's build our Valkyrie's Fork with gear that is easily obtainable with a small group of people:

Askar Korazin - 5 sTP and 2% Double Attack
Brutal Earring - 1 sTP and 5% Double Attack
Rajas Ring - 5 sTP
Ares's Flanchard- 2% Double Attack

That totals to 12% Double Attack as well as 11 sTP. Both of those are HUGE advantages especially when coupled with the other stats on them. 11 sTP equates to an additional 1.1% TP per swing (Correct me if I'm wrong) giving you after 5 swings an additional 5.5% TP. They also don't hinder a haste build (Homam Cosciales I know, but it's a toss up in certain situations).

Now, you say "My guide is not discussing how effective a certain gear build is and such" but in fact that's exactly what you make a guide for. The fact you completely neglected a haste build's effectiveness just makes your guide opinion based moreso than factual based. I think you really need to take in other Dragoon's opinions/experiences rather than comment on your own.

TP gain with Valkyrie's Fork with +11 sTP and /sam = 16.8%. You're welcome

And I will put my PoV on the Fork thing (even though my drg is 39 but yeah, damage calculation all the same anyway :x). 2 base dmg/ 3% DA and 3 sTP totally > Mezraq. The evasion down bonus is not an argument due to DRG acc bonus trait combined with a brd + some acc gear. It's not even a worthwhile comparison;

[Jaybar]

so at 16.8% TP a hit, after 6 you already get 100.8% TP. A True 6 hit for Dragoon while not suffering any other gear to replace it. Clearly a big thing to note.

[Darkwill]

Jaybar :
so at 16.8% TP a hit, after 6 you already get 100.8% TP. A True 6 hit for Dragoon while not suffering any other gear to replace it. Clearly a big thing to note.

Yeah I didn't even think about checking that. It giving a drg a 6-hit makes it even better.

[Jaybar]

I'm not savvy with calculating TP per hit, but what is it with /WAR? Should shed some light on the sub job issue if you need 7-8 hits for 100TP.

[Darkwill]

14.8

[Jaybar]

Ah right, simply 20 sTP from job traits = 2% more TP per attack ;x

So clearly, you need 7 hits to get to 100 TP.

[Darkwill]

Jaybar :
Ah right, simply 20 sTP from job traits = 2% more TP per attack ;x

So clearly, you need 7 hits to get to 100 TP.

Not quite that way :x

sTP: Base TP * (1 + StoreTP%)

[Jaybar]

Now I know!!

[Canada]

Charger's Mantle is fucking retarded.

Seconded x2

And I am going to reneg on my previous take on this guide. I re read it and I have to say that it is very dated and out of touch for today's Dragoon. It does need quite a bit of updating. Many people have already touched on a lot of things in a not so nice way so I will leave it to them.

[Jormungand]

Unfortunately, you fail to realize the humor in actually having a guide to gear your dragoon. Yes, there are pieces of equipment that you can suggest buuuutt....can't you gear your own damn self? Do we really want everyone in the same exact gear?

As for the guide, yes...it's outdated. Why? Because new gear gets added all the time, is it going to be opinion based? Yes, when someone writes something they will more than likely have a bias. Unfortunately, it seems other people seem to think they still need to use their two hour to summon their wyvern. Am I seeing this? Acc. issues? Not considering store TP or Haste? This is joke right?

Still refering to Kirin?! Update your opinions as well as your guide.

Having such a strong opinion and not giving way to others ideas should be met with a strong, and preferably rude retort.