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Fixing Flame Wars...

#1
User is offline   Phlow 

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Since the mods have made the descision to delete it, I thought we should at least make a suggestion box. No, Ifto's box doesn't count as a suggestion box (I'm aware Ifto is a guy, he still has a vagina). So Flame Wars is broke. There's too much shit, and not enough time to cipher through it all. How do we fix this problem? Post your suggestions, I've got a few as well.

Severely Restricted Access:

It'd operate much like it does now, with a few changes.

- First, a 500-1000 post minimum to post here. Topics will not be shown on main page. If something is moved for any reason, no "moved" link (this is not an advertisement space for your lame ass LOLPOPTARTS thread).

- Second, two strike rule. You get a warning + suspension from FW for the first time you derail a thread or make an irrelevant thread in FW. The second time, you are banned from FW. No exception. Being offensive still falls under "normal" FW rules (pre-10/31). You want in FW again? Make another account with 1000 posts and change your IP. Then you might be considered.

- Third, change the reactive modding to proactive modding. What does this mean? Normally, mods wait until someone reports a thread as being derailed before they take action. Fuck that, just because no one has spoken up doesn't mean it isn't annoying the shit out of people. I'm a prime example - I'm not gonna be a whiny bitch and tell the teacher. I'll take your toy and break it just to see you cry.

Does this mean more Ifto incidents? No. It would work like this: Thread is moved out of FW and into a speciel "judgement" forum, only seen by mods. Mod moving the thread tags it with why. Mods can vote one way or another on the threads and if the primary mod overstepped bounds, was unfair, etc. Can post on that thread to clarify stance. One week probationary period would be given to offender, where they are banned from FW while mods vote. After week, descision is made - Strike or no strike.

If strike, poster is warned of behavior, banned for 1 month from FW. After month, ban is lifted, poster can post again. If offends again, same process, this time with result being perma ban from FW. If no strike, probation ends, poster is allowed to post with no warning. There will be no bitching from the poster at this point. This ain't fuckin burger king, you can't have it your way. We fuck up your order, you're gonna eat the god-damned number 2 combo, even if you're deathly allergic to cheese.

- Lock topics when they are finished. After a page of bullshit posts, it's pretty obvious that we are done here. Lock the topic.

Mod Some Severe Assholes:

Yep. You read that right. Complete. Assholes. Why? Well, two different reasons:
1) An asshole doesn't care if you like him or hate him.
2) An asshole will not put up with bullshit.

Best examples? Seirgith. Morrelon. I've only seen them post random shit on the rare occassions. From that, I can conclude that they do give a shit about post content. As long as their sense of right and wrong is attuned, if bullshit enters FW, I would suspect that one of these two would say "Fuck what the crowd is doing, this is SPAM."

90%-98% of their posts contain scathing fact combined with sarcastic wit. Only someone with such a belittling sense of speech/type can change the attitude of Flame Wars. Right now the poster's attitude of Flame Wars is "LOL I HAD A SAMMITCH 2DAYZ". When someone recieves not only a severe public crucifying for this asinine post, but a banning to discontinue any defense they might have had, it changes the enviroment. Suddenly, it's not cool anymore to post LOL NU U SUK! or ZOMG LUK @ DIS ANIME!

If you are a bad mod, you are hated by everyone. If you are a good mod, you're only hated by the shitty posters. I expect there to be contraversy. When a mod hides shit, it means they feel guilty. When a mod keeps it public, a lot of the time the public agrees with them. I think 6souls banned Tonka back in the day. I didn't flip out nearly as much as I did when Ifto started deleting threads about how someone hated him.
----------------------

Bleh. I'm getting tired, and I'm sure this thread will be spammed with bullshit when I check it next.

Anyway, if you have a suggestion on how to "Fix Flame Wars", fire away.
0

#2
User is offline   Uragirimono 

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Phlow :
Since the mods have made the descision to delete it, I thought we should at least make a suggestion box. No, Ifto's box doesn't count as a suggestion box (I'm aware Ifto is a guy, he still has a vagina). So Flame Wars is broke. There's too much shit, and not enough time to cipher through it all. How do we fix this problem? Post your suggestions, I've got a few as well.

Severely Restricted Access:

It'd operate much like it does now, with a few changes.

- First, a 500-1000 post minimum to post here. Topics will not be shown on main page. If something is moved for any reason, no "moved" link (this is not an advertisement space for your lame ass LOLPOPTARTS thread).

- Second, two strike rule. You get a warning + suspension from FW for the first time you derail a thread or make an irrelevant thread in FW. The second time, you are banned from FW. No exception. Being offensive still falls under "normal" FW rules (pre-10/31). You want in FW again? Make another account with 1000 posts and change your IP. Then you might be considered.

- Third, change the reactive modding to proactive modding. What does this mean? Normally, mods wait until someone reports a thread as being derailed before they take action. Fuck that, just because no one has spoken up doesn't mean it isn't annoying the shit out of people. I'm a prime example - I'm not gonna be a whiny bitch and tell the teacher. I'll take your toy and break it just to see you cry.

Does this mean more Ifto incidents? No. It would work like this: Thread is moved out of FW and into a speciel "judgement" forum, only seen by mods. Mod moving the thread tags it with why. Mods can vote one way or another on the threads and if the primary mod overstepped bounds, was unfair, etc. Can post on that thread to clarify stance. One week probationary period would be given to offender, where they are banned from FW while mods vote. After week, descision is made - Strike or no strike.

If strike, poster is warned of behavior, banned for 1 month from FW. After month, ban is lifted, poster can post again. If offends again, same process, this time with result being perma ban from FW. If no strike, probation ends, poster is allowed to post with no warning. There will be no bitching from the poster at this point. This ain't fuckin burger king, you can't have it your way. We fuck up your order, you're gonna eat the god-damned number 2 combo, even if you're deathly allergic to cheese.

- Lock topics when they are finished. After a page of bullshit posts, it's pretty obvious that we are done here. Lock the topic.

Mod Some Severe Assholes:

Yep. You read that right. Complete. Assholes. Why? Well, two different reasons:
1) An asshole doesn't care if you like him or hate him.
2) An asshole will not put up with bullshit.

Best examples? Seirgith. Morrelon. I've only seen them post random shit on the rare occassions. From that, I can conclude that they do give a shit about post content. As long as their sense of right and wrong is attuned, if bullshit enters FW, I would suspect that one of these two would say "Fuck what the crowd is doing, this is SPAM."

90%-98% of their posts contain scathing fact combined with sarcastic wit. Only someone with such a belittling sense of speech/type can change the attitude of Flame Wars. Right now the poster's attitude of Flame Wars is "LOL I HAD A SAMMITCH 2DAYZ". When someone recieves not only a severe public crucifying for this asinine post, but a banning to discontinue any defense they might have had, it changes the enviroment. Suddenly, it's not cool anymore to post LOL NU U SUK! or ZOMG LUK @ DIS ANIME!

If you are a bad mod, you are hated by everyone. If you are a good mod, you're only hated by the shitty posters. I expect there to be contraversy. When a mod hides shit, it means they feel guilty. When a mod keeps it public, a lot of the time the public agrees with them. I think 6souls banned Tonka back in the day. I didn't flip out nearly as much as I did when Ifto started deleting threads about how someone hated him.
----------------------

Bleh. I'm getting tired, and I'm sure this thread will be spammed with bullshit when I check it next.

Anyway, if you have a suggestion on how to "Fix Flame Wars", fire away.

Your post makes it sound like our moderation staff is active. They aren't. We'd need an entirely new moderation system and/or Mods and Super Mods for each individual section for that to work.

Will that work? Maybe, but Nazis aren't known for letting the jews have power. Even gestapos got beaten every day... they just had a pretty name.

At least I think the term is gestapo. I never paid attention in class so iunno.
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#3
User is offline   Falconblade 

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Before we even start giving a sugjestion box, we need to find a Mod that gives a rats ass
This might have a chance with KI3 though. Only sugjestion Id make is a new moderation staff. 3-4 people for FW onry. Two really agressive posters, who want serious thought and subject matter, and two more layed back.
0

#4

Uragirimono :
Phlow :
Since the mods have made the descision to delete it, I thought we should at least make a suggestion box. No, Ifto's box doesn't count as a suggestion box (I'm aware Ifto is a guy, he still has a vagina). So Flame Wars is broke. There's too much shit, and not enough time to cipher through it all. How do we fix this problem? Post your suggestions, I've got a few as well.

Severely Restricted Access:

It'd operate much like it does now, with a few changes.

- First, a 500-1000 post minimum to post here. Topics will not be shown on main page. If something is moved for any reason, no "moved" link (this is not an advertisement space for your lame ass LOLPOPTARTS thread).

- Second, two strike rule. You get a warning + suspension from FW for the first time you derail a thread or make an irrelevant thread in FW. The second time, you are banned from FW. No exception. Being offensive still falls under "normal" FW rules (pre-10/31). You want in FW again? Make another account with 1000 posts and change your IP. Then you might be considered.

- Third, change the reactive modding to proactive modding. What does this mean? Normally, mods wait until someone reports a thread as being derailed before they take action. Fuck that, just because no one has spoken up doesn't mean it isn't annoying the shit out of people. I'm a prime example - I'm not gonna be a whiny bitch and tell the teacher. I'll take your toy and break it just to see you cry.

Does this mean more Ifto incidents? No. It would work like this: Thread is moved out of FW and into a speciel "judgement" forum, only seen by mods. Mod moving the thread tags it with why. Mods can vote one way or another on the threads and if the primary mod overstepped bounds, was unfair, etc. Can post on that thread to clarify stance. One week probationary period would be given to offender, where they are banned from FW while mods vote. After week, descision is made - Strike or no strike.

If strike, poster is warned of behavior, banned for 1 month from FW. After month, ban is lifted, poster can post again. If offends again, same process, this time with result being perma ban from FW. If no strike, probation ends, poster is allowed to post with no warning. There will be no bitching from the poster at this point. This ain't fuckin burger king, you can't have it your way. We fuck up your order, you're gonna eat the god-damned number 2 combo, even if you're deathly allergic to cheese.

- Lock topics when they are finished. After a page of bullshit posts, it's pretty obvious that we are done here. Lock the topic.

Mod Some Severe Assholes:

Yep. You read that right. Complete. Assholes. Why? Well, two different reasons:
1) An asshole doesn't care if you like him or hate him.
2) An asshole will not put up with bullshit.

Best examples? Seirgith. Morrelon. I've only seen them post random shit on the rare occassions. From that, I can conclude that they do give a shit about post content. As long as their sense of right and wrong is attuned, if bullshit enters FW, I would suspect that one of these two would say "Fuck what the crowd is doing, this is SPAM."

90%-98% of their posts contain scathing fact combined with sarcastic wit. Only someone with such a belittling sense of speech/type can change the attitude of Flame Wars. Right now the poster's attitude of Flame Wars is "LOL I HAD A SAMMITCH 2DAYZ". When someone recieves not only a severe public crucifying for this asinine post, but a banning to discontinue any defense they might have had, it changes the enviroment. Suddenly, it's not cool anymore to post LOL NU U SUK! or ZOMG LUK @ DIS ANIME!

If you are a bad mod, you are hated by everyone. If you are a good mod, you're only hated by the shitty posters. I expect there to be contraversy. When a mod hides shit, it means they feel guilty. When a mod keeps it public, a lot of the time the public agrees with them. I think 6souls banned Tonka back in the day. I didn't flip out nearly as much as I did when Ifto started deleting threads about how someone hated him.
----------------------

Bleh. I'm getting tired, and I'm sure this thread will be spammed with bullshit when I check it next.

Anyway, if you have a suggestion on how to "Fix Flame Wars", fire away.

Your post makes it sound like our moderation staff is active. They aren't. We'd need an entirely new moderation system and/or Mods and Super Mods for each individual section for that to work.

Will that work? Maybe, but Nazis aren't known for letting the jews have power. Even gestapos got beaten every day... they just had a pretty name.

At least I think the term is gestapo. I never paid attention in class so iunno.


I agree that mods aren't active. Take this thread for example. http://killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts...0&n=last#bottom It's been up for almost 2 hours.
0

#5
User is offline   Phlow 

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Whatever the case, the aggressive modding I would propose for FW would be exclusively for FW. Currently, the only threads that are removed are ones that people (the posters) find offensive. The only way to tell they are offensive to the poster base is to hit the "Report to a Moderator" link.

As far as I know, I don't believe mods are allowed to use their own judgement. And when they do, it usually isn't good judgement >_> Which is why I would propose a Judgement Forum for review of potentially offensive material or off topic bullshit.

I'm not sure what the mod situation is like, but if a forum is getting out of hand and you don't trust the people that frequent it with full-fledged moderator status, MAKE A RANK for them. Psuedo-Mod or something. Someone with just the power to move a thread from FW, but never from anywhere else. To lock a thread only in FW. To put someone on probation only from the Flame Wars forum.

Again, I don't assume to know anything about the mod situations or goings on up there. I just know that we have no place to be heard. And even if I'm screamin at the wall on this thread, at least I'm screaming.
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#6

Rofl, I guess mods are reading this thread since they just deleted the one I linked.
0

#7
User is offline   Falconblade 

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Phlow :
Whatever the case, the aggressive modding I would propose for FW would be exclusively for FW. Currently, the only threads that are removed are ones that people (the posters) find offensive. The only way to tell they are offensive to the poster base is to hit the "Report to a Moderator" link.

As far as I know, I don't believe mods are allowed to use their own judgement. And when they do, it usually isn't good judgement >_> Which is why I would propose a Judgement Forum for review of potentially offensive material or off topic bullshit.

I'm not sure what the mod situation is like, but if a forum is getting out of hand and you don't trust the people that frequent it with full-fledged moderator status, MAKE A RANK for them. Psuedo-Mod or something. Someone with just the power to move a thread from FW, but never from anywhere else. To lock a thread only in FW. To put someone on probation only from the Flame Wars forum.

Again, I don't assume to know anything about the mod situations or goings on up there. I just know that we have no place to be heard. And even if I'm screamin at the wall on this thread, at least I'm screaming.


There is a judgement forum, from what I can gather.
They have a rank for that too. KI Fiend.
Seems the only way to get your voice heard is to befriend a mod, or piss one off.
That, or Mods dont like to give responses.
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#8
User is offline   Tibur 

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Phlow :
Mod Some Severe Assholes:

Yep. You read that right. Complete. Assholes. Why? Well, two different reasons:
1) An asshole doesn't care if you like him or hate him.
2) An asshole will not put up with bullshit.

Best examples? Seirgith. Morrelon. Sirstyles.
90%-98% of their posts contain scathing fact combined with sarcastic wit

If you are a bad mod, you are hated by everyone. If you are a good mod, you're only hated by the shitty posters. I expect there to be contraversy. When a mod hides shit, it means they feel guilty. When a mod keeps it public, a lot of the time the public agrees with them. I think 6souls banned Tonka back in the day. I didn't flip out nearly as much as I did when Ifto started deleting threads about how someone hated him.


i agree

you need to get rid of that avatar though it freaks me out .. lol
no idea why >_>
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#9
User is offline   Sonos 

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this thread probably only brings about the fact that most mods are looking forward to the day where they can shut this down. gg
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#10
User is offline   Hadyn 

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Phlow, what the fuck.
With rules like that, why not just troll in General?
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#11
User is offline   Phlow 

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Nice addendum, Tibur =P And you are correct, Ben should be feared, for his badassedness eclipses all.

Hadyn, what is prohibited on there that we can do now? Other than derailing threads or making completely pointless ones.
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#12
User is offline   Ghent. 

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Lol do you think Mods will ever stop flames?

I say The Lounge should be the new flame wars.

Whos with me?
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#13
User is offline   Phlow 

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Shippou :
Rofl, I guess mods are reading this thread since they just deleted the one I linked.


Or someone just now followed your link and hit the Report to Moderator link. Again, I'm not sure how they work out the whole deletion of threads bit, but it would almost seem that there is a reactive mod staff rather than proactive. If a mod is reading this, please correct or affirm, we're all ears.

Ghent, that's not just going to be General Forum. It's going to be Every Forum.
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#14
User is offline   Falconblade 

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Ghent. :
Lol do you think Mods will ever stop flames?

I say The Lounge should be the new flame wars.

Whos with me?


Mods are, apparently, going to be more strict. They'll probably ban half of KI to get they're message across.
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#15

Phlow :
Shippou :
Rofl, I guess mods are reading this thread since they just deleted the one I linked.


Or someone just now followed your link and hit the Report to Moderator link. Again, I'm not sure how they work out the whole deletion of threads bit, but it would almost seem that there is a reactive mod staff rather than proactive. If a mod is reading this, please correct or affirm, we're all ears.

Ghent, that's not just going to be General Forum. It's going to be Every Forum.


Point was, if there is a mod that can delete a thread that I linked to in under ten minutes, they're obviously active, they just don't care about enough threads to do anything. If they're active, they're probably reading Flamewars to see what new "war" is being waged.
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#16
User is offline   Uragirimono 

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Falconblade :
Ghent. :
Lol do you think Mods will ever stop flames?

I say The Lounge should be the new flame wars.

Whos with me?


Mods are, apparently, going to be more strict. They'll probably ban half of KI to get they're message across.

Martyrs?
0

#17
User is offline   Falconblade 

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Uragirimono :
Falconblade :
Ghent. :
Lol do you think Mods will ever stop flames?

I say The Lounge should be the new flame wars.

Whos with me?


Mods are, apparently, going to be more strict. They'll probably ban half of KI to get they're message across.

Martyrs?

Being a Martyr isnt special when 1/2 of you are one.
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#18
User is offline   Uragirimono 

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Falconblade :
Uragirimono :
Falconblade :
Ghent. :
Lol do you think Mods will ever stop flames?

I say The Lounge should be the new flame wars.

Whos with me?


Mods are, apparently, going to be more strict. They'll probably ban half of KI to get they're message across.

Martyrs?

Being a Martyr isnt special when 1/2 of you are one.

Awww. sad.gif
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#19
User is offline   Phlow 

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Falconblade :
Mods are, apparently, going to be more strict. They'll probably ban half of KI to get they're message across.


*chuckles* Falcon, you disappoint me.

There is no KI without the users. If there is no one here to play with, then I'll lose interest, plain and simple. As will everyone else. If KI's user base dies off, KI will die off. I'm sure they won't ban unless it is really needed. Like I said, I'm not doing anything the ToS doesn't want me to do, but I'll still be an ass.
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#20
User is offline   Dyire 

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KI3 and the subsequent removal of Flamewars has been carefully planned out for many months now. Only parts of KI3 are being implemented at this current moment, as it is a ongoing process of upgrading the forum system, server and user side.
While suggestions for "fixing" flamewars are appreciated, some proposed changes have already been thought of and looked at. Some solutions users bring up are just impossible to do on the LDU system that Killing Ifrit runs on at the moment.

In a nutshell, your civil and well thought out suggestions are appreciated. While full details of changes and future changes aren't disclosed to the public, we have already planned for steps that have been and will be taken carefully.
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