[Archibaldcrane]

The thing is, you need a -hell- of a lot less accuracy than you need attack, point for point. From gear/songs/spells, you can make use of, what, maybe 65-70 accuracy vs. IT xp mobs before it stops mattering? You can make use of 300+ attack before it stops mattering.

Armor: Up to 100~110 Attack or 50~60 Accuracy

Well, in my optimum setup, you get -both- 56 accuracy and 97 attack. Clearly gear-limited accuracy and attack caps are much higher than 110 and 60.

But look, I understand what people are saying. Noone has all this gear, and everyone wants to get 40+ accuracy before they start "worrying about" attack. However, I think that the -goal- in gearing your thief is to value them equally, and the 1:1 ratio seems to accomplish just that, when applied to actual "what do I use?" scenarios - it's just that people have accuracy deficiencies in certain areas, and start dropping attack and attack speed in others to compensate. The other obvious thing here is that almost -all- of the best pieces for TP gain are not so because of acc or atk, it's because they increase attack rate. We get increased attack rate from everything except the back piece, the rings, the neck and the weapons (and one earring for non /nin) and it just so happens that it also provides an epic amount of acc and atk.

If you think that accuracy should be valued higher, give a more desired ratio, and then point to where that affects the "chart" - since the chart is the primary reason for this post.

[Ludomancer]

The thing is, you need a -hell- of a lot less accuracy than you need attack, point for point.

That's exactly what I mean. Acc is simply on a tighter scale than Atk, both in terms of what you can add and how much you want. Thus:

Acc+10 item = meets 20% of my acc requirement (yay!)
Atk+10 item = meets 10% of my atk requirement (meh)

I wouldn't consider them equally valuable candidates for a single equip slot.

[Sozsensur]

Deleted other post.

While it takes more attack to be set than accuracy, more things people do in the game affect attack than accuracy. If you want a boost in attack, then you take minuets, Str Etude, eat food, Rdms Dia, land Acid Bolt, (Angon but yeah), etc. If you want accuracy, Rdm Gravity, Absorb-Agi(have you tried asking a Drk to do that?), Frost(have you tried asking a Blm to do that? They both look at you funny). Bards are rarely requested to Madrigal, and if acc is that bad, it seems melee are less likely to be used, and more Blms.

So really it's on you to keep your accuracy up, via gear, food, Feint. While you might have a very valuable attack equipment, it doesn't mean much if you are missing. And as stated in other threads, there are optimal settings that allow you to reach an attack cap.

Color me inexperienced, but if the other DDs are seeing 90% and higher accuracy, why is 80-85% worth settling on as Thf?

[olddog]

I do think Blau/Sirocco > P. Harpe/Blau, yes.

I feel that both Hollow and ethreal are worse than Merman for melee, so I don't see it as a particularly imporant issue for this argument, but any of the 3 will be fine.

I wasn't aware that race was ever a significant factor.

- The delay and added effect of siro, really makes up for the 11pts of dmg P.harpe has over it? :cry

- Granted. But for the sake of your chart's um "correctness" (I know there's a word I can't think of atm), consider hollow before ethereal and sure both after merman's yea? hehe

- People used to bring it up in all kinds of flame heated discusions, "But I'm taru/elv/cat so i need more/less acc/atk/(fill in stat) than you as a taru/elv/cat" etc. But ok, it seems that may not be the case anymore :dozingoff

P.S.: Be sure you quote the right people, i never said anything about potent vs life belts :cry

[treelo]

I wasn't aware that race was ever a significant factor.

Whenever someone asks me for advice on equipment, the first question I ask is "what race are you?" Maybe for melee, seeing as how the only two stats you seem to want are ACC/Attk, it really isn't important (I still think it is, but meh). I think you will find if you decide to repeat this for WS dmg builds, that race is very much important.

I do think Blau/Sirocco > P. Harpe/Blau, yes.

Why? Granted, since I've obtained my P. Harpe, I've not had a blau to dual wield with it (damn french) but I would have assumed that 37DMG/33DMG 210/186 would be better than 33DMG/26DMG 186/150. Again, I've not tested this, I have no grasp of mathematics, and have no desire to make my head explode calculating which is better. I'm just curious as to why you think this.

[Archibaldcrane]

olddog :
The delay and added effect of siro, really makes up for the 11pts of dmg P.harpe has over it? :cry

Remember, we're just talking about meleeing here. P. Harpe has a DPS of 10.57 compared to S. Kukri's 10.40. Neither dagger helps whatever you swing in the other hand, but S. Kukri is doing 10+% additional damage compared to it's hits in wind effect, pushing it's true DPS well over 11. Since neither has any stat boosts or other factors to take into consideration really, I think S. Kukri is the better dagger to pair with Blau (unless you're in a Puk camp).

[Draxyl]

That pic has psyched me up to try and trio that NM for a bit, till I get so frustrated I have to stop

And if I had P harpe + blau, I figure I'd mainhand P harpe. If you're using Sirocco, you're going blau/sirroco...not really apples to apples.

[Spider-Dan]

treelo :
Whenever someone asks me for advice on equipment, the first question I ask is "what race are you?" Maybe for melee, seeing as how the only two stats you seem to want are ACC/Attk, it really isn't important (I still think it is, but meh). I think you will find if you decide to repeat this for WS dmg builds, that race is very much important.

I don't see what difference it would make. You're going to want the same gear no matter what race you are.

n.head > relic hat, regardless of race
n.feet > dragon leggings, regardless of race
HH > DH on unstacked WS, regardless of race
DH > HH on stacked WS, regardless of race
AF+1 hands > n.hands on TA+WS, regardless of race
n.hands > anything else on unstacked or SA+WS, regardless of race
etc.

The linear, uncapped nature of DEX bonuses and existence of Hecatomb make the majority of THF's WS gear choices pretty straightforward. Your race isn't even a factor.

[olddog]

Remember, we're just talking about meleeing here.

But.. are we ever going to "just melee" ? Only melee, no WS etc? Every other slot, we will gear swap, except main/sub/ranged. "Meleeing only" dagger choices.. uh.. maybe leave the daggers off the chart :cry

if I had P harpe & blau, I figure I'd mainhand P harpe. If you're using Sirocco, you're going blau/sirroco

What if.. you have P.harpe and blau AND siro.. and its not "given" that you are using siro at all necessarily.... :O_o

[MrVile]

Add Grand T.K. Collar.

[Drwatsononhades]

What about Harpe as a main hand option? Sure it's slow (delay 210), but it has the highest base dmg (35) of any dagger you can buy from the AH. Its dot is listed as 10.0, which puts it above the Adder Jambiya, Stylet, Behemoth Knife+1 and Magnet Knife - all of which made it onto your list. I'm currently mainhanding this with a sirocco offhand until i can get the gil together for a blau.

[Histasius]

Mirax :
I think right now if we sat down and thought of the best build possible, it would be extremely similar, though I'd have different gloves and possibly a different ring.

Mandau Blau Bomblet
Turban Love Brutal Suppa
Homam Dusk Gloves +1* Divisor* Mars's Ring*
Chargers Ninurta's* Skadi* Homam

Corrected

[Ludomancer]

Add Grand T.K. Collar

This is still a nice item for Dyna and Limbus, but it's worth noting that no exp party after the level you can equip it will want to fight in old zones.

[locketaru]

I need to copy it down before it gets deleted

[Annatard]

Bumped for the many noob THFs I see wearing crap TP gear on Fairy.

[CK]

Annatard :
Bumped for the many noob THFs I see wearing crap TP gear on Fairy.

Thank you.

[Archibaldcrane]

Bumping because it fell off the front page. If any mod is looking at this, could we get a sticky please?

[Sakurato]

Archibaldcrane :
Bumping because it fell off the front page. If any mod is looking at this, could we get a sticky please?