[Anacrusis]

np and I have no problems with hoplites at 68-69, they're good daggers even if better exist. I just hate seeing people mainhanding hoplites 70+ when Magnet Knives are so cheap too, but faster and with nifty added effect.

[BuGGaTon]

Only problem with magnet knife is that if you are soloing they can be a bit annoying. -10 eva and all

[Raylinn]

Denchet :
Hoplite's 32/210 DPS=9.14
Garuda's 19/183 DPS=6.23

Once you hit 68 you never use a pre68 dagger. Period.

I still carry Garuda's with me at 75. It comes in handy while soloing mage types, particularly ones that cast -agaIII spells.
Of course, that's a special case, where the added effect is what I'm using it for, not the damage.

[Dragonhope]

[editorializing removed. ~M]

Also Tatami Shield isn't really a must have. Viking Shield is better then Tatami for anything other then THF/NIN so you might want to remove the bolding on it. Switching Shields I think also removes TP so...better to leave Tatami shield for soloing or HNMs where you're only in rotation for SC and then out and not doing any DoTing.

[BuGGaTon]

THF/NIN don't use shields.
Red + Bold doesn't mean "Must have"... although i disagree and thing that a tatami is miles better than a viking by the time you get around to getting one.
/WAR (so HNMs etc) you'd want a Tatami. /NIN (burning/Soloing) you'd want ... no shield.
If you were to burn /WAR then you'd probably be eating attack food anyway so the +12 attack wouldn't be as useful as the +5 STR might be. If you're eating sushi then /slap

[Dragonhope]

Edit: Last time I checked, /WAR didn't get any extra accuracy from /NIN. So if /WAR would be using attack food, then /NIN would be too. I would need a Love Torque for an extra +7 dagger skill on top of capped Dagger merits to hit 90%+ hit rate in most camps since Dagger is A- in skill rating. So if I wanted to get above 90% hit rate, i'd think that you'd need to use sushi anyway unless you have both Torque and capped merits.

[MeuII]

Some possible additions to consider. After level 56 you kind of stop making mention to equipment that can be used for soloing particularly in the +Evasion department. Although admittedly pieces like Scorpion Harness and Optical Hat that are very good for both Accuracy and Evasion bonuses are quite obvious. Also since landing crossbows bolts are an useful facet of Thief's abilities some other ranged accuracy gear is nice to mention which of the above higher level pieces are also useful for Ranged Attacks. Anyway there are other options out there that I feel are nice for Thief. Here are some that I used/use/plan on using in level sequence as best I can remember, you'll have to decide for yourself what priority they should have.

lvl 55: Jaridah/Akinji Salvars - Provides decent r.acc and evasion bonuses at that level and more directly affects those stats that the +agi bonus on Rogue's Culottes provides at lvl 56. -HP can be negative for soloing however.

lvl 57: Bat Earrings - While blinded you will gain +15 to Evasion. I actually used one of these while soloing Diatryma to great effect since they often use a special move that blinds you. Also grants an additional +5MP when soloing as Thf/Whm. Very cheap and easy to obtain, and you can blind yourself and use it in the fight against Maat if you still need to beat him.

Lv 60: Aketon/Aketon +1 - Cheaper than Scorpion Harness, and a completely defensive piece. Adds both +evasion and +agility instead of solely increasing evasion. Has +HP as well, which can be useful for survival.
Elusive Earring - Static +5 evasion bonus, but is a bit pricey on my server.

Lv 65: Evasion Torque - +7 Evasion Skill and +7 HP, the best defensive neck piece in my opinion. Bumps our already high Evasion skill up to the next level. Master Caster's Mitts (Windurst CP hands) - Grants +10 Evasion Skill and +2 Agi, but only when in an area subject to conquest that is not under your nation's control (In my case and most likely cases that nation is Windurst) I actually have stopped using this personally because Windurst actually wins a lot of key areas on my server. Can be very useful for the Maat fight if the BC you fight him at is not under your nation's control. I believe San'doria and Bastok have similar level 65 hand pieces, but M.C. Mitts adds the most + Evasion skill of the three.

Lv 70: Behemoth Knife/Behemoth Knife +1 - I don't think this was mentioned but I believe the +1 is the highest damage dagger at level 70 after the Harpe and adds good +attack bonus as well as quite a good bit of HP for a weapon. Cheaper than Adder Jambiya +1 for sure. War Beret/War Beret +1 - Almost as good as the Optical Hat, and usually not too expensive. People also claim it looks better than o.hat. Boxer's Mantle - The End-all-be-all Defensive back piece for all melee jobs. Provides +10 skill to all defensive combat skills. Requires quite a few Ancient Beastcoins to obtain but a worthwhile investment for the Thief that needs enhanced defense.

Lv 73: Scouter's Rope - +10 Evasion on waist slot and +4 agility, although the -40 HP is a big negative in my book. Useful if the mob that is attacking you has no moves that bypass evasion/shadows. Tariqah/Tariqah +1 - Decent Accuracy and Evasion bonuses for a shield. While you usually want the +attack shields while thf/war, the Tariqah can be used both offensively to help with TP gain with +accuracy and defensively with +evasion (I mainly use when thf/whm actually).

Lv 74: Rogue's Vest +1 - It's a Hecatomb Harness with half the strength and 2 less accuracy, but comes without the + Slow penalty. Depending on your HNMLS and personal financial situation it may be easier or harder to obtain than a Hecatomb Harness. Will likely not replace Hecatomb, but it is an alternative that other jobs won't fight you over in order to obtain. Whether or not Rogue's Armlets +1 should have priority for your Ancient Beastcoin purchases you need to decide for yourself which will help increase your damage more overall.

[lordilpalazzo]

Didn't see Custom M/F Gloves on the list (hume RSE) and was wondering if I could be considered gimp for keeping mine onhand for SATA >.>;;

There are a few other equips I've been looking at for THF..
Tabin set HQ hands/legs/feet all seem to be good alternatives to what is available to a 66THF/33NIN..
I have been using Corsair's Knife/ Chicken Knife since I could equip 'em and still have very nice results on DOT & WS.. I do get some odd looks from other ppl that have THF lvld for my dagger choice, but only hit for 0s on crawlers w/ cocoon up (and only when everyone is hitting for 0s lol) but I have been wondering if there are any "must have" dagger upgrades before 68...

any feedback that is more than: /point /laugh lolGimpTHF will be appreciated XD

[Emperordragon]

Darksteel Kukri +1 works if you NEED an upgrade Pre-Harpe/SK.

Custom Gloves work well.

Tabin set is pure crap, stick to AF

Edit: /point /laugh lolGimpTHF

[Lexx]

Hume RSE is fine.

HQ Tabin hands and feet are great, I wouldn't bother with the legs though, AF has 4 Agi and Noct Brais +1 has 2 Dex.

I'd personally go /war and have a viking shield, but if you must go /nin, use 2x Cement Kukri +1 until harpe's.

[BuGGaTon]

MeuII the guide was written without soloing in mind. I only made mention of a pieces usefulness when soloing as a passing jesture. The bits i did make a comment about the usefulness in the soloing department were also useful in the normal areas too. Will update with some of the equips soon.

[Raze Dragmyr]

lordilpalazzo :
Didn't see Custom M/F Gloves on the list (hume RSE) and was wondering if I could be considered gimp for keeping mine onhand for SATA >.>;;

BuGGaTon :
Level 27: Humes now get Custom M/F Gloves which are superb all the way until Hecatomb Mittens. Use these in your WS macro.

[Clemz]

I used Strike Baghnakhs as thf/mnk until I was able to dual wield Mithran Scimitars at 28.

Windurstian Baghnakhs
Federation Baghnakhs
Two other good options at 15.

[BuGGaTon]

i'm not going to edit those into the guide because i think you'd get better results from the Sword WS+SA and that should be what people should be suggested to use. Unless someone thinks i'm wrong :x i haven't been Thief1-33 in 18 months...

[Clemz]

Err, I'm sorry, I meant to say that was thf/mnk, not thf/war, didn't realize what I had written til just now.

Reason being, /mnk gives you access to boost at level 10, whereas /war does not give berserk until 30. You also have the [slightly] increased attack speed from martial arts. Mnk seemed to pull ahead in the stretch from 10-28, but both work well.

[BuGGaTon]

the difference in STR is almost irrelevant (almost being the operative word). The martial art trait brings your delay down to 400 for both fists. Just gonna do some quick DPS calculations. ^^ brb

First Edit: okay by level 20 you've lost 12 skill (so 12 acc and attack) compared with a dagger and Sword has only lost 8... so if it's close...

Level 10 THF: Base H2H DMG-5 Delay 400 --------- DPS 1.5
Level 11 THF: Base H2H DMG-6 Delay 400 --------- DPS 1.8
Level 14 THF: Base H2H DMG-7 Delay 400 --------- DPS 2.1
Level 17 THF: Base H2H DMG-8 Delay 400 --------- DPS 2.4

Second edit:
Cat Baghnaks Levels 10/11/14/17 - DMG7/8/9/10 Delay 460 --------- DPS 1.8/2.1/2.3/2.6
Cat Bagks. +1 Levels 10/11/14/17 - DMG8/9/10/11 Delay 451 ------- DPS 2.1/2.4/2.7/2.9
Brass Baghnaks Levels 11/14/17 - DMG10/11/12 Delay 460 ---------- DPS 2.6/2.9/3.1
Brs Baghnaks +1 Levels 11/14/17 - DMG11/12/13 Delay 455 --------- DPS 2.9/3.2/3.4

Republic Knuckles - Levels 15/17 - DMG13/14 Delay476 ------------------ DPS 3.3/3.5
Kingdom Cesti - Levels 15/17 DMG11/12 Delay 433 ------------------------ DPS 3.0/3.3
Federation Baghnaks - Levels 15/17 DMG12/13 Delay 448 ---------------- DPS 3.2/3.5

On the knuckles thing it's much more advisable to use Republic Knuckles as they not only have the best DPS but it has the best stats on it too. Brass Baghnaks +1 are also good to use from level 11 (vastly superior to the Cat counterparts).

Third Edit:

Bee Spatha /+1 - Level 11 DMG13/14 Delay 233/227 -------- DPS3.3/3.7
This stamps on all the MNK options at level 11.
There is no competition at level 15 between the Republic Knucles and the Bee Spatha NQ. The HQ still wins.
Level 17 the HQ Bee Spatha is STILL the winner.
Level 18 you can use a Flame Sword/Fire Sword which both shit all over the Knuckles for DPS (4.0/4.4 NQ/HQ)

Lastly looking at the Weaponskills...

H2H vs. Sword
Combo vs. Fast Blade
Both are almost exactly the same on their first hit when combined with Sneak Attack. The only difference is that Combo delivers a 3rd attack which would generate a small amount more damage. Whether or not this makes up for the lower skill or lesser DPS of the Knuckles is really not much to think about. Combo = slightly more on the WS. Considering you have to attack about 15-25 times to get that much TP... is it worth it? Your choice. Since sword is much better by the time you hit 20 (Dual Wield from /NIN gives 10% less delay effectively) i would advise using Sword at all times so that you don't end up with a "Skilling up" phase because your Sword is underleveled. Also at 20 you can offhand a Dagger to keep that skill capped if you like (or don't have another higher job to cap it on yourself).

Sword mainhand from 1-32. Aight?

[Barachiel]

I've seen Thf/mnks throw out 300+ dmg SA combos in dunes XP parties.

[BuGGaTon]

Barachiel :
I've seen Thf/mnks throw out 300+ dmg SA combos in dunes XP parties.

That's a one shot kill. Are you Sure? Only the first hit of the Combo would be made a Critical hit with the Dex added to wDMG. I'm not inclined to believe that from a Dunes PT sorry >.>; Show me a SS from a 10-20THF on a Tough or stronger mob doing 300 Combo then i'll eat my own words XD

[Clemz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial dual wield trait is little to no delay reduction, not 10%? Subbing nin pre utsu(28 really to dual wield Mithran Scimitars) is more of a waste than anything I've noticed. I wouldn't recommend anyone subbing nin until 28, 24 at the earliest.

Generally speaking, SA combo will outdamage SA fast blade, even with only their first hits stacking with SA.

This isn't a subjob discussion though, so if your guide is only based on /war until 24/28/33, then I can understand not adding it. However, it's another option, and I just felt it should be added.

[BuGGaTon]

NIN at level 10 gets the first Dual-wield job trait. That is 10% off total delay. 2nd one is at level 25 (or level 50/25nin) which is 15%.