[GATX-303]

No offence but I am seriously depressed about being a SMN. 65% of the time being a SMN annoys the piss out of me and 35% of the time I think it is the best job in the game. I seriously try to give every job I lvl 110%. I always do my best to leave a PT and have them say at the very least "I am glad I PT'ed with that guy!" Up to now (lvl 25) I have been Meleeing with my avatars (mostly Leviathan and Ifrit considering they deal the most melee damage), but now at 25 I am lost. I seem to have become Garuda's Bit*H! People whine if I don't constantly Blink them and Garuda is HORRIBLE melee. Plus, most SMN should know that it is a waste of time to attept to summon 2 avatars in 1 battle because of the casting times. I love meleeing the avatars even with their weak damage. Meleeing avatars is A LOT of fun for me. What should I do? What is my true role in PTs (i know back-up healer at the very least)?

Please no resposes from non-summoners or summoners under lvl 25. Also, don't bother posting if your going to tell me, "it's your character, run it the way you want" BS. I am serious about my problem and need serious coaching.

[Cornbred]

well, i'm not a lvl 25 summoner, but should be, i've been getting a static avatar pt together for a week now, but uh, i pt with a lot of JP and, they respect the back up healing i do even with out leviathan or ifrit meleeing, i know that meleeing the avatars are fun, i've only had the chance to melee carby and garuda my slf but, if the people you party with don't respect the blink armor you give them, then they shouldnt have invited you, but thats not the point, this is what i would do, i would tell them that if you want me to kee giving you blink armor, i will have less mp for back p healing, which i do a lot of and you should be thankful for because i probly saved you once or twice, so if you can't respect what i do for the party, do YOU want me to leave?

shit thats just me, i'm not saying that it's my character i do what i want, i'm just saying that they should respect what you do like what a paladin does, if they don't then just do what you can to make them happy if you really want their aproval that bad, personally i'de just do it so i could be one of those good smns, that do exactly what the others do, just people dont bitch cus i left their pt cus i didnt like them ya know?

so, try to make friends with the people in the party then sit back, summon, cure, chat a bit, melee your avatars, get xp, it's all good right?

now i just typed a shitload, i fdont know if that helps you any but, i tryed if not =D

[Orage]

i hate to say it, but my impression is that teh "mainstream" need for a smn until around level 70 is for the party buffs and backup cure.

the main party buffs you'll be asked for are blink/stoneskin (when you get it in the 40s). just cycle these. blink can actually save a lot of mp and is very nice if aggro does bounce from the pld. people will also want fenrir's acc and eva up buff if you happen to have fenrir.

otherwise, backup cure is what it's at. so a battle might look like:

pull
get into position and blink everyone just as puller gets back. release avatar.
keep stuff alive.
smn avatar and stoneskin / reblink
keep stuff alive.

i'm not saying that this is the only way to play smn, but atm it seems to be the most "requested" and is quite effective at times.

[Gryffes]

hastega, blinkga, stoneskinga, thats all you will be doing apart from curing until fenrir.

[Omare]

Alright! I´m a lvl 52 Summoner right now. I´ll try to tell from my experience now.
To you question whats the purpose of a SMN in PT... i dont know myself exactly how to answer it but ill state what i think......

I think SMN are underrated.... people dont know what they are about and what they are capeable of....

blinkga stoneskinga hastega... yeah thats the most popular ones..... and it helps but some of you prbly didnt know

SMN are good pullers when it comes to no link pulls

SMN 2hs Astral Flow can save you party´s ass.

We have a shitload of MP to Cure.

I, most of the time start a PT... or i get invites from Japanese. From my experience one of the best party set ups i have is SMN/WHM RDM THF SAM PLD BLM (no WHM!!) (SMN recover MP very fast and RDM has Convert so no downtime at all)

i do Stoneskin after i pulled .... during fight i do STATS boost and additional healing if nccsry and Shiva´s Double Slap does 160 dmg to IT, before SC i try to time Ifrit, Crimson howl on the Party(Warcry) to increase dmg

SCs are #1 Tachi:Enpi --> Seraph Blade + Blizzard II MB

if necessary now i do Stoneskin again or Blink to make sure the BLM is safe because he might get too much hate from the mob, if hes not behind the PLD)

SC #2: Tachi:Enpi--> Viper Bite + Freeze MB (1500dmg)!

I hope i stated SMN in a better light now!^^

[Omare]

OH!^^ and i forgot

try BCNMs with SMN only PTs^^

6 x Astral Flow = MEGAWOOT^^

BCNM40 Record 1min4secs

[GATX-303]

Cornbred...
It's not that they don't appreciate being blinked. They whine like babies when they don't have it. Your right though constantly doing blink for the tanks is VERY COSTLY MP wise!

Orage...
I feel inadequate doing what I have seen other summoners do...

1. Call Garuda... Aerial Armor... Release
2. 1-3 Cure(s) I or II
3. 7 times out of 10, sit and watch the rest of the fight go down.
4. Repeat steps 1-2 if the battle lasts longer then expected.

I mean what good are you if you spend most of your time healing (i.e. not casting cure meaning your resting)?

Plus in an "in tune" party only 1-2 people ever get damaged except when the mob tosses an AoE. Which then means should I be wasting 92 MP just for the tank? That seems like a MONSTEROUS waste to me.

Thinking about it if I was totally "on top" of things battles last roughly 2-3 minutes...
that's 184-276MP (minus the summoning cost and perpetuation cost) per battle out of my 380ish MP at the moment...
and my 184-276MP has saved the WHM roughly few Cure1s (oh lets say 5 of them 40MP) or 2-3 Cure2s per battle (48-72 MP) because we all know that Blink only gives 2 free melee ONLY hits and is gone...

Now I am lost again, using 184-276MP to save 48-72 MP? Is that smart? I guess if the WHM was Galka (which is a rarity).

Just so everyone knows up until now I have been Meleeing avatars and back-up healing. Leviathan and Ifrit who happen to rival a few of the other Melee jobs and sort of Melee jobs (NIN, PLD, RDM... no I am not saying the avatars are DD). So when most of the people are hitting about 17-20, Leviathan and Ifrit are hitting about 2-3 points under them (keep in mind my Skill is ALWAYS maxed when I enter a party which I am sure plays a HUGE part in their melee stats). This seems like such a large differemce from the seemingly waisted MP of Aerial Armor (which would be cooler if it was a more beefy version of the WHM/RDM Blink... but instead seems to be a weaker version).

Personally the only job that I think the Aerial Armor is not wasted on is BLM and WHM for emergency use. Casting Arial Armor every 15 minutes on the average is much better and saves the WHM from wasting too many Cures on his/her self and on the BLM. That seems more cost effective to me.

pull
get into position and blink everyone just as puller gets back. release avatar.
keep stuff alive.
smn avatar and stoneskin / reblink
keep stuff alive.

Personally if that's all there is why not (as the PT leader looking for members) get a second BLM, WHM or more DD's, which is 100 MILLION times more useful then what you are talking about.

Please any other opinions on the subject matter? What is the most effective and useful role for SMN's in PTs?

[Gryffes]

aerial armour is mp innefficient until 92 mp outweighs the mp you would use to cure it.

2xcure3 = 96mp. cure3 for me does 212hp ( apollo staff ).

So until your saving the tank more than 424hp by using aerial armour, it is a total waste to spam it.

It is very useful vs high damage monsters
( ladon, some golem, some nm ) but for normal exp party use, its not even worth it at lvl 75, monsters still dont hit for over 100 very often.

424/3 = 141.33~

so unless your tank is getting hit for over 142 hp a hit it is mp inefficient.

Even vs fafnir who hits regularly for 200+, its more efficient to use earthan ward to protect the party from hurricane wing ( 200-350 dmg across each person in alliance ).

[Gilthanes]

a 70+, before pulls and stuff using the 92 mp to blink the tank (and even if its only the tank) is still effecient. In those 3 hits the tank would take 200-250 dmg. 250 dmg = Cure3+ Cure2 (90+180) which is 72mp right there. Thats not counting the mp you save from having a melee dodge a Whirl of Rage for 150+ dmg 3 times in a row (fighting weapons for example).

Still, even when I play main healer at 75 (which is still pretty common), at beginning of fight I can toss out a 1000+ dmg attack and still have 1000 mp for the rest of the battle to heal(roughly the mp of a whm my level). So, assuming the pt never dies, Smn > Whm imo (no disrespect for whm, they dont do any real dmg to add to the group but they do add more security which alot of people prefer)

Also, Genbu hits slow but for 300-450 dmg a hit (En- dmg also if you dont remove it). Throw two summoners or sub summoners in tank pt whose sole duty is to pop out Blink as fast as you can and your tank almost never takes dmg

[GATX-303]

So really at what lvl do these Incredibly wasteful spells become start actually becoming useful?

[Tahkisis]

Speaking from 28 levels of SMN/WHM, the base role of SMN so far was backup healer 1-22, and then I've been a main healer from time to time. Blink is great, I have the MP to summon Garuda twice per fight and keep blink on everyone. I've gotten a lot of compliments on my healing ability and once you get Blinkga, you will as well. I know it sucks that SMN becomes a main healer and all, but you really just about learn to accept it and be happy, or at least I did. If I weren't a SMN, say....BLM or something, I'd much rather have a SMN than a WHM for main healer. The loss of Raise sucks, but oh well, I'm sure WHM are out there. I only have Aerial Armor and Frost Armor atm, but their both doing great right now. You're a SMN, be happy about that. I'm sure you'll get as many invites as a WHM later, however, sadly you must play your role, a main healer.

That doesn't mean you can't play a WHM and SMN in a PT together, it's just a lot more effective with only one or the other ^^

[GATX-303]

I have been in just a few parties that told me that I had to be the main healer. Frankly, I refused. Before you get all upset here was my solution...

Most PT that asked that of me at least had a RDM. I told the entire PT that I would be more then happy to do half of the healing. A SMN doing main healing completely defeats the purpose of being a SMN. I think SMN should feel responsible enough to Back-up heal with or without a WHM, yet we should not be held responsible for full-time healing.

BTW, I have often been told that I act too much like a WHM and not a SMN whatever that means.

I also cannot disagree with Tahkisis any more...

That doesn't mean you can't play a WHM and SMN in a PT together, it's just a lot more effective with only one or the other ^^

Effective to have only 1? Why? That is a stupid statement in my opinion. So that means having a RDM in the PT until lvl 41 is useless? Using your logic the cure can be done by WHMs and RDM black magic can't even begin to compair with BLM abilities. Plus, the avatars can pretty much do equal melee damage. (Please all RDMs reading this don't get me wrong. I love RDMs and the are wonderful alternatives when WHMs or BLMs aren't avalible or if you want a bit more "oomf" to your line-up.) Unlike SMNs though, RDM were made to replace WHMs and BLMs in the event that there are neither avalible. A good RDM can always be willing and able to do either job.

Your wrong WHM and a SMN is a wonderful safty net. Just like a RDM back-up healer, it all for extra security. If you truely wanted to be more effective you'd have 1 main healer and 2 BLMs. But, you would be running a truely high risk of KOs.

[Chaosiori]

In this game Summoner is a support jobs. Past lvl 25, Avatar aren't really meant to be out meleeing in exp party. For the next 20+ lvl you will be the blink/stoneskin wh0re. As you lvl you will get more more party buffs and enhancers.

There will also be times were you may have to be main healer. I prefer the rdm to be main healers, but they have other buffs to do also, so it best to work together. Far as the DD problem, that is why its best to be main healer. Another damage dealer can take the place of the whm. If summoner can keep party decently buffed and healed with the rdm, there is no need for raise II.

I also like fighting with my avatars, to get this out of my system, I use them to farm. If you want to melee with a pet, your should prolly try BST.

[Gilthanes]

Just hang in there guys. I've never been happier than when I hit 70+ and I started doing major dmg in 1 shot with no aggro. Knocking off 1000 dmg then laughing as the mob doesnt even flinch at you... beautiful

[Lydya]

last night I did 1016dmg to Nidhogg with spinning dive ... and no hate on me... /laugh

Edit: sorry it was Nidhogg not Fafnir ><

[zeorhymer]

Little story to share. I was level 28 leveling in jungles and was invited to a party. Party leader suggested that they'll have 3 blink tanks and 2 melee so there won't be that much curing. I was very hesitant at first, but I might as well give it a try. Party formed and pulled our first mandy. Boy that was so lame. It took a good 5 minutes and all of my MP just for a stupid 200xp. I have no idea where this guy came up with for 5 melee and 1 smn/whm. After that I decided never to pull that crap again.

To be a good SMN around 20s and 30s, there has to be another healer in the party, whether there is a PLD, RDM, WHM or a caster with /WHM. When I was in the above party, I only summoned Leviathan once in the whole time I was there. I could have offered so much more to the party.

A couple of hours later I partied with a normal group and they were doing a round robin of voking. The difference was that I wasn't the only one healing. With the WHM healing I could use Shiva's Frost Armor and since everyone was spreading the dmg, it worked out very well. The party got an extra 100 or so dmg from the ice spike, not to mention the occasional paralyze.

To sum it up, if the RDM or WHM isn't enfeebling or no one can do it, summon Titan and use Rock Throw. Spreading the dmg with vokes, use Frost Armor. No one can hit the broadside of a bus, use Tail Whip. SMNs have a wide set of tools even at pre-30. Just have to know when to use em and what party makeup you have.

[Whoman]

Omare i wanted to know if that bcnm 40 strat works with 6 smns..ive done 20 and 30 like that and whooped up but not 40..it seems harder cuz of more mobs and one big one bt if u tested this out and it worked plz tell me

[Kingleopold]

Reading all these posts about SMN being mainly to heal/support is depressing me. I got out of WHM for a while to play around with SMN so I could avoid being the main healer. 28 levels later, I find I've been the main healer a couple of times and if that's what I have to look forward to, I might as well go back to WHM.

Aerial Armor is fun and all, but the novelty is quickly wearing since it lasts all of two seconds on the tank when fighting mandys.

[Fieras]

hi there king again ^^ I remember you from sightseing in Fei'Yin ^^.

Anywho, I am now a 61 summoner.

I have all my AF now except the darn AF3 horn. (or very namesake, and I lack it, what kinda smn am I? that'd be like a rdm w/out their pimp hat!)

I am indeed a messy cure tank, and spam my buffs alot in parties. But you know what, It makes the parties run much smoother.

Currently at my lv I find the ideal party for me to be in, and still actually be not leeching is:
----------------------------------------------------
-Nin/War or a War/Nin tank (Thilack or Anaril, my 2 fav tanks)

-Rdm/Blm or /Smn (Atrayu or Fannila or whoever else)

-Whm/Blm (Kelo, Holymaster ect...)

-(me) *Smn/Whm* (Fieras Ruels!)

-Rgn/Nin (Can't remember who, but she was real good!)

-Mnk/War (Gdelf!!!)
-----------------------------------------------------

Now for all my parties, I usually talk alot, espcially about my usefullness in parties......

All I can say is I can be a Ninjas / War/nin Tank's best weapon. I am extreemly useful for when they just cant recast their Utemeshi in time, I use earthern ward before fights, and Aeral Armor to give them blink, so they can turn their better version on.

The ranger and monk are good DD's. And with the whm to aid me in healing, and doing buffs that I cannot, the rdm only has to enfeeb and refresh. They even magic burst all the time on any SC that we may be doign.

I myself find that using an avatar to VER IV mag stuff to death when its almost ready to drop, fun. However, I don't do it if my mp is needed elsewhere.

As for why I want to continue being a snm, well, my hope is to get to lv 70+ and someday get Fenrir, So I can do nice damage for a change......... rather then be the chain and shackled messy cure tank that all smns are .

My next plan of action is:
-Get to lv 65
-Get Spirit Taker
-Max my smn magic (I have a secret plan)
-Get Fenrir
-Get around to getting my horn some year

[Izmo]

I almost never accept a party in where I can't be main healer :/

I feel that I myself am not as useful if there is a whm in the party. I have enough MP to cure the party as needed and still throw out buffs. And I'm never the cause of downtime.

I don't mind a rdm in the party pre 41, because they can dispel, and pre Dispel, they can help out w/ cures, melee, and MB.

I'm ok with being main healer till high levels both because I love doing more then watching six bars at the bottom of the screen and I appreciate the fact that, unlike most jobs, we get to go through shifts. A bard is going to sing till 75. A blm will nuke till he's 75. Our job shifts, and I like that.

/shrug My advice is to learn to love healing, and get satisfaction from being useful as a summoner, or maybe try another job. I know there are Ninjas who don't want to tank, and Rdm who think they are best as melee blm. But that's not how their job works.