[Skycloud]

Thinking about this from a logical standpoint in the game and in the history of SE and Final Fantasy it just makes me think Dancer isnt going to do well.

This is a job that most likely will have to be obtained in the past, SE has already said that they were onces "powerful" frontline soldiers during the crystal war. But thinking of this it makes me wonder, if they were powerful... then why were they completely wiped off the face of the earth? This didnt happen with any of the other jobs (Well ones that we already know about not the possible new jobs that will come out.) So really will it be all that great?

Weapon most commonly found for Dancer would be the knife, looking at it from that angle as it being a DD with knife it looks like it would roughly be the same as a PUP is to a MNK. Dancer wont have the killer SATA ability that THF has and the usablity of the best WS seems somewhat unlikely. Even if they were given access they could never outbeat a THF on damage.

Thinking of a Dancer's abilities well of course it would be moves associated with dancing. What could dancing do for a party? Entertainment, encouragement, relaxsation, things on this line that could possibly raise state effects like attack def or help with healing. But again we already have this, in not just one, but two jobs now that cover almost every thinkable buff in the game (even buffs for pets IE COR)

But then lets think of it offensively, Dancers against mobs, dances that could make the mob drop its defense? change its enmity up? But thinking of this, Dancing is a visual effect and one would think that the mob would have to look at you which dancing or the move wouldnt take effect, much like eye to eye contact moves/spells. That would be fairly bad in an HNM scene with mobs like Khim who has fairly bad and anoying AoE's that would make you never want to stand close to its face unless you are a tank, Cerberus who (I dont know bout yall but my LS tanks its butt) Kirin who is always kitted, Wyrms who for most are slept nuked to death (Can a Dancers moves work on a slept mob? wouldnt its eyes be closed?) There are many more but im sure you get the idea with this.

Now on to the big old topic of if its going to be female only or not. Well lets look at SE history. If SE has never had males be able to play Dancer before there is a stronger possiblity of it being female only but not a 100% chance mind you.

But in all honesty how is it unfair to make it female only? In this game you can have more then one favorite job, but can you play them both at the same time? Nope you cant, only one at a time. There are gender specific items that I would want but I cant get them, there are race specific things that I cant get, and there is thosands of weapons and armor that I wish I could use for this or that job but you know what? I cant use it and I have to deal with it. Will it cause honestly people to quit? Highly unlikely because then why did they level those previous jobs in the first place? I mean did they not like them at all then why on earth play the game in the first place...

So all in all Dancer? Will it flop? Logically, yes. But its SE, they have pulled crazier stuff outta their ass and still have manage to make things decent.

[Akujin]

Reasons why Dancer didnt survive the Crystal War could be, possibly.

1. Because this 'divinity of dance' recalled all those with its blessing after the war or so, making those dancers normal people once again. (unlikely)

2. All the women (yes, I'm saying this as in female only job) after the CW took up normal professions, or married off into families, giving birth to our present day generation, since after the war the age of adventurers began. Which, going off that timeline, if there was no more need for the Dancer job, since the War was over, there would be no mentioning of it later on. (more likely than 1, and could infact be the leading point for the job if they make the unlocking quest start in present time, where you hear about the job from a former Dancer. But have to collect some item that can only be gained in the past, so you go back, get said item, bring it back and the woman tells you more of her story, and tells you how to contact the divinity of dance or whatever.)

or

3. All the Dancers died during the War. (more possible) So, all Dancers died in the war, the DoD pretty much vanished off the face of the world since there was no one to remember it and when you return to the past, you have the opportunity to join the ranks of the Dancers in their prime and continue on their lineage even after the war, even though the main bulk of them may still be destroyed because thats just how it was supposed to happen, but you'll still live on.

Personally I like version 2 the most and it sounds more like something SE will do.

And I also got terribly offtrack with your actual post,a bout whether the job is useless, cause I didnt read it all. I'm tired and I only read the first few lines and started to think along those lines. lol, sorry.

[Skycloud]

no no your on topic, your just talking about one point of my topic and its a good point/ideas on the history of Dancer.

But I dont want to come off as to harsh on the job being that it isnt out yet, im just reflecting on what SE has shown us so far of Dancer and the ideas of what a Dancer would do.

A new idea of dancing also makes me think of possible semi-summons, in many cultures in RL dancing has been used as a form to call upon rain and good fortune. Maybe dances that could summon things that could add in battle perhaps? But then that would go into what would the rules be on having it out? Would it be on a timer or would a Dancer have something like MP tic drain that SMN avatars do? Dancer seems more of a physical job then one that uses magic mp...

[Tsuko]

I guess a failure like you has nothing better to do...

[Soupbowl]

Did not read. Considering all we know about dancer is.... IT DANCES! WOW LULZ DANCR WELL BE TEH NXT OLD DRG> BEKUZ TEH DANZE!!!!!

[Skycloud]

Tsuko :
I guess a failure like you has nothing better to do...

A failure of what? If your attacking me with that insult because your a supporter of Dancer and think im belittling the job then I am sorry you feel that way but I dont mean to give that impression. Im just saying the kinda obvious and trying to open up the ideas a little.

I dont really think of myself as really a failure I mean im a full time student in college studing to be a Geology Major and so far this year im doing a lot better then last year. (Im not at all trying to sound smug over this so again sorry if you get that impression im just showing that I am not a failure in life but you may be calling me a failure on something else but I really dont know what because your not giving me anything else besides that one line.)

I just dont see anything wrong with thinking outside the box, if you want to talk about your opinions on it go ahead im all for it. Totally opened minded here and want to see other peoples ideas. But please keep the insults out of this or atleast give me a reason behind it...

[DigiDude]

I Could seriously see Dancers being a new tank, and in the end, sacrificed themselves to save their allies in the crystal wars... As they said the Dance of Divinity was apparently a myth... I wouldn't put it past SE =P

You can't say if a class will flop til it's out, everyone thought Corsair would and Puppetmaster would be popular... Yea...

[Ricki]

Skycloud :
Dancing is a visual effect and one would think that the mob
would have to look at you which dancing or the move wouldnt
take effect, much like eye to eye contact moves/spells.

Think of it the same way Bard songs work on monsters. When the song
is sung its like some pulsating wave thing striking the monster giving
it the song effect. In the same way, when a Dancer completes a dance
movement a similar type of wave thing would strike the monster giving
it the dance effect.

[Skycloud]

Hmm interesting, or maybe the dance movements create a kind of energy around the Dancer that they can release upon the mob?

[Akujin]

Dances have a long running tradition yeah, dancing tends to be very ritualistic in itself, of a more fluid nature. Reading the description over again, they use 'forbidden magicks' on themselves and their enemies, that rival those of sorcerer incants. So I dont think it'll be so much as in an assistence to the party, like Corsair or Bard is, where they're prime purpose is to support all the other members with various effects. Instead, it seems like the Dancers would fall under a more specific role to augument themselves and debuff the enemies, being that they're specalizing in close range combat instead of dancing in the back lines to grant their abilities to their allies. It could be more like, say, blaze spikes. There's a duration that the effect remains active once its cast, or in another angle, the 'en' spells that are as of now rdm specific, that could be broadend to Dancer as well.

[Smari]

dancer is going to be like this.. that... blah blah blah, man come on you're shooting down a job when all the role and ability haven't even been released? not to mention tested? I'm not pro - contra dancer, it's just weird looking at critics etc on the job with no further info available. take brd, lets imagine we know no shit about brd and it is just about to be released. wtf singing in a battle? with knife? how's that gonna help??!?!11oneone look at it now, lfg less than 10 seconds and it's gone.
point is you can make analysis, given you have the info, when you don't it's just a wild guess, and you can't draw conclusion it's gonna fail or doing well or w/e from a wild guess, you can only.. well.. guess.

"So all in all Dancer? Will it flop? Logically, yes. But its SE, they have pulled crazier stuff outta their ass and still have manage to make things decent." <--- based on a few seconds on the trailer video? logically? are you crazy?

[Juro]

tl;dr

[Yoona]

Yeah theres definitely not enough data to know how a job is going to perform. I mean We literally know nothing about this job other then it can use a dagger, and it dances. I do however think that its not going to be a very popular job. First of all we have a very homophobic community and so thats gonna scare like 50% or more of people away from the job. Secondly a lot of people who say they're gonna level it know nothing about the job and so they might end up hating the jobs role. Also people don't realize is sure the job looks all pretty in the trailer, however new jobs have less then old jobs in terms of gear and such. There will most likely be no AF upon release of the job and it will be a couple months before it is released. Merits won't be around for a while either, I mean COR PUP and BLU just got their group 2 merits this year, and so the new jobs will likely take a similar route. I dunno don't judge a job before its released.

[MIR The Great]

There are gender specific items that I would want but I cant get them

Are you kidding me?

You want to wear Opaline dress? You want to wear a female swimsuit? As a Male character?! Are you a transvestite?

What else did i miss? Maybe you want to wear the female version of the RSE althought the male version has the same stats?

Seriously guys, there's no such a thing as a Female only stuff in this game except for Opaline which only exist for looking pretty, and you won't look pretty with that if you have a male character!



As for your idea about dancer you should understand that evrey thing you said could be applied to the idea of a bard.

Thinking of a Dancer's abilities well of course it would be moves associated with dancing. What could dancing do for a party? Entertainment, encouragement, relaxsation, things on this line that could possibly raise state effects like attack def or help with healing.

Same with bards

But then lets think of it offensively, Dancers against mobs, dances that could make the mob drop its defense? change its enmity up? But thinking of this, Dancing is a visual effect and one would think that the mob would have to look at you which dancing or the move wouldnt take effect, much like eye to eye contact moves/spells. That would be fairly bad in an HNM scene with mobs like Khim who has fairly bad and anoying AoE's that would make you never want to stand close to its face unless you are a tank, Cerberus who (I dont know bout yall but my LS tanks its butt) Kirin who is always kitted, Wyrms who for most are slept nuked to death There are many more but im sure you get the idea with this.

I dunno about the visual effect thing, this is a logic possibility but for the game balance would be quite bad. Not everything follows the Real World logic in FF, for example Quick Draw works even if you are givin your back to the mob. And SATA works for mobs that shouldn't logically have a front and a rear (like elementals).

(Can a Dancers moves work on a slept mob? wouldnt its eyes be closed?)

Shouldn't they fall on the ground instead of standing still? Again you are applying the real world logic to FF.

Remember that for any good RPG developer, Game Balance come first, realism comes after. Else you wouldn't have a man in clothes with a dagger beating the crap out of a marksman with a shotgun...

[Hubris]

This thread read like a joke at first, but I guess you're serious ._.

Why do you feel the need to be so unfoundedly negative?

So far as anyone outside a small group of Square Enix employees is concerned, Dancer doesn't even exist yet, and you're telling us how worthless the job will be because it can't fight Kihmara?! I love speculation, but jeeze! If you want to guess what the job can do based on the trailer that we all saw, the short brief on the web site, previous final fantasy games, the size and qualities of a sacrificial animal liver, the predictions of some hermited oracle, or even a roll of your rare thirtieth-annual collector's edition fifty-two sided Dungeons and Dragons die, go right ahead, but please, please, please if you're going to attempt to criticize a job at least provide a more substantial reason for doing so than "I think it should be like this...".

Every single thing that you listed in your original post was a reason why SE would not design the job in the way that you imagine. As much as they have a tendency to bungle things up in the game balance department (which is honestly not as bad as people make it out to be, most MMOs go through the same dance), they don't intentionally spend time and money to create jobs just to have them fail. Give it the benefit of the doubt, a little time, and maybe try to be a little more positive? You might not like the idea of this job, but there are plenty of people out here who love the idea and can't wait to try it.

Skycloud:
outbeat

Also, I've seen this particular abomination a few times, and I really need to address it. "Outbeat" is not a word in the English language. Even if you split it up into two separate words, it's not a sensible or grammatically reasonable phrase in the English language. Please stop using it.

Finally, not just you Sky, but everyone who so vehemently insists on doing so, stop trying claim that the job will only be accessible to female characters! It's just silly. We've already seen male dancers leaping about in that much-scrutinized video. Any and all reason that you have for assuming that dancing is somehow inherently feminine is founded solely in your real-world biases. Men can dance. Many of them do it very well. Try it some time, you might even like it.


p.s. my scrying bones tell me that despite all evidence to the contrary the dancer job will only be available to galka with a previously leveled 75 mage job, and will require the purchase of an at-home DDR pad to function. Go figure.

[Skycloud]

If your refering to Op dress being girl only yes it is just for looks but then again, male characters might want to have something to wear that is fun. not a Dress mind you.

But the game mechanics always follow some line of realistic real life that limits its abilities of jobs and actions. So there is going to be limits on what Dancer's abilities do just like any other job.

But really I did watch the vid many times and those 2 guys are not dancing...

More on subject lets look at this from a game designer standpoint

If you were to create this job, What would you give it that the game needs and that the players want?

Really what more do we need in this game in terms of jobs?

SE prides itself on its use of using real life thoughts into the game to design its jobs and stories. Using various myths and legends to create some of the best things in this game. So its important to look at the cultural influence of dancing to see what kind of impact it has on the real world and see how it could be implied in the game.

Again I am being crit, but I am keeping myself open to the ideas of others to see how this game would work. It is easily predictable what is going to happen when SE adds things if you look at it from every angle, I was able to figure out what 3 of the 4 new Teir2 merits for BLU were going to be based on what I have seen from other jobs Teir2 merits and what BLU really lacked.

[Invictusx]

MIR The Great :

There are gender specific items that I would want but I cant get them

Are you kidding me?

You want to wear Opaline dress? You want to wear a female swimsuit? As a Male character?! Are you a transvestite?

What else did i miss? Maybe you want to wear the female version of the RSE althought the male version has the same stats?

Seriously guys, there's no such a thing as a Female only stuff in this game except for Opaline which only exist for looking pretty, and you won't look pretty with that if you have a male character!



As for your idea about dancer you should understand that evrey thing you said could be applied to the idea of a bard.

Thinking of a Dancer's abilities well of course it would be moves associated with dancing. What could dancing do for a party? Entertainment, encouragement, relaxsation, things on this line that could possibly raise state effects like attack def or help with healing.

Same with bards

But then lets think of it offensively, Dancers against mobs, dances that could make the mob drop its defense? change its enmity up? But thinking of this, Dancing is a visual effect and one would think that the mob would have to look at you which dancing or the move wouldnt take effect, much like eye to eye contact moves/spells. That would be fairly bad in an HNM scene with mobs like Khim who has fairly bad and anoying AoE's that would make you never want to stand close to its face unless you are a tank, Cerberus who (I dont know bout yall but my LS tanks its butt) Kirin who is always kitted, Wyrms who for most are slept nuked to death There are many more but im sure you get the idea with this.

I dunno about the visual effect thing, this is a logic possibility but for the game balance would be quite bad. Not everything follows the Real World logic in FF, for example Quick Draw works even if you are givin your back to the mob. And SATA works for mobs that shouldn't logically have a front and a rear (like elementals).

(Can a Dancers moves work on a slept mob? wouldnt its eyes be closed?)

Shouldn't they fall on the ground instead of standing still? Again you are applying the real world logic to FF.

Remember that for any good RPG developer, Game Balance come first, realism comes after. Else you wouldn't have a man in clothes with a dagger beating the crap out of a marksman with a shotgun...

From an economic standpoint, it is much cheaper to be a female! hahaha

[Brayker]

putting the 'lol' in a job before its even seen in action GJ!

Have you unlocked dancer? Have you leveled Dancer? Have you ever seen a Dancer in action? Do you know what a Dancer can do?

shut the fuck up

[Varizen]

This is the most gun jumped topic yet... It's not even out. Why the fuck are you going to ask this question? The only reason is sucked in previous FFs is do to lack or reliability and variety. BRD sucked in previous FFs as well though, and it's one of the more important jobs in XI.

You all have me worried...

[MIR The Great]

If your refering to Op dress being girl only yes it is just for looks but then again, male characters might want to have something to wear that is fun. not a Dress mind you.

No man, you said, and i quote your words:

There are gender specific items that I would want but I cant get them

Now you name those gender specific items that you want, or just admit you write stuff without even thinking about what you are typing. Just be honest and say that there's absolutely no such item that you really want.

But really I did watch the vid many times and those 2 guys are not dancing...

Next time you'll say BLU is actually RED. For god sake, they are on the stage behind a dancer, what the hell are they doing if not dancing? Denial FTL.

I haven't seen this much denial since the time Bill Clinton said that blowjob isn't sex