[Kaparu]

Slight derail: Why do people merit anything other than Burst and Freeze? Don't people understand what Ninjutsu does? >_>;

I part of me dies inside every time I hear about someone meriting Quake II for Kirin...

[Byrthnoth]

Here's the theory Kaparu:
You can MB four things on a Darkness skillchain (Ice, Water, Earth, and Dark) and four things on a Light skillchain (Thunder, Wind, Fire, and Light). Now, the 6 of those elements that are in the resistance circle each have an AM 2 associated with them. Assuming no potency merits, there is inherently nothing that makes one AM2 better than another (except I really like Aquilo's Staff). They all cost the same MP and have the same base damage.

So, say you have a three BLMs whose merits and development you can completely control. You have one merit Water and Fire Potency, with Quake and Flare 2. Another merit Earth and Wind, with Quake 2 and Tornado 2. Then the last one you have merit Ice and Thunder, with the standard Freeze 2 and Burst 2.

You make a Darkness skillchain and MB Flood, Quake, and Freeze 2. They lower the monster's resistance to Fire, Thunder, and Wind and don't suffer from the BLM-NM update because you're only casting one spell of each element. Then you do the same thing with a Light skillchain and Flare, Tornado, and Burst 2.

It's theoretically the most damaging most efficient usage of a MAB. You lower a monster's resistance to all the spells that you'll be doing next and you don't get affected by the NM resistance update having 5 BLMs casting Burst 2 on the same monster at the same time.

Not to mention that if you have full merits and the 6 elemental Obis, you have the day bonus 6/8 of the time. Day Bonus of 10% on every cast vs. MB Bonus of 6% with MAB+10. That brings it down to the point where it's being able to avoid the BLM-NM patch vs. about 3% damage tops. Might as well not spend the extra merits and be a little more versatile.

[rambus]

You make a Darkness skillchain and MB Flood, Quake, and Freeze 2. They lower the monster's resistance to Fire, Thunder, and Wind and don't suffer from the BLM-NM update because you're only casting one spell of each element. Then you do the same thing with a Light skillchain and Flare, Tornado, and Burst 2.

wrong, element does not matter.

i did a light cop NM where the RDM chainspelled fire III after my fire IV and i could not do more damage then that first fire IV, regardless if it was tornado II,freeze II and thunder IV.

meirting other elements is way to situational to do really.

i see no point in Flare II fire IV is strong.

I can see flood II water IV kind of weak same with wind.

quake.. wtf do you use stone on?

so you only have 4 to merits that are within reason of doing

flood, torando, burst, and freeze.

[Kaparu]

I truly appreciate the well though out explanation, but that was extreme sarcasm; X-BLM75 myself. Versatility is splendid and all, but when your other areas of expertise aren't being utilized, your not being versatile.

For me, it comes down to a few simple facts.

1) Ice and Thunder are the two most universal elements in the game. Very few mobs are blatantly resistant to both of these spells.

2) Blizzard and Thunder IV are your most MP-efficient standard spells. As such, all of your potency merits should be maxed into these two categories.

3) These spells account for your ability to burst on a Light or Darkness skillchain.

What I seem to hear a lot of is maxing out Burst II, for obvious reasons. Thunder is the dominant element in this game, and I couldn't agree with the decision more. However, I then hear about a mix of Freeze ~ Quake ~ Tornado; But why? Freeze II is the most accurate, and powerful, single-target spell in the game. 5 INT may be a trivial amount, but it lays down that fact pretty well.

The fact that these two spells align perfectly with your average(Read: Good) Black Mage's merits, align perfectly with 99% of all skillchaining that will ever occur, and that any Lv.40 Ninja could do exactly what Quake~Tornado does at the cost of 0 MP, and without having to toss in useless merits that could have been spent more efficiently elsewhere, should make it pretty obvious what the correct choice is.


~.02

[rambus]

kap you have the same veiw as me, i only went off corse slighty and did this

freeze II 3
burst II 2
tornado II 1

i love having the 3rd for manafont and the fact having a neat looking spell

so it is possable to do tornado II > freeze II> burst II> thunderaga III within 2 hr time frame.

<3 tornado II for looks

ps torando II owns lol kirin /grin.

[Kaparu]

Well, if its for aesthetic purposes, then its really not a big deal to me. In my person opinion though, efficiency takes priority over the latter. Things I don't like visually can be .dat swapped.

[Ereshkigal]

My reason for asking this was is there any benefit to meriting a single AM2 more than once. Setting up skillchains for magic bursts isn't as popular as it used to be, however, if I got a universal +15 Magic Accuracy on a spell that's always active, that alone is a good reason to consider meriting the spell to max.

I'm not a career BLM, its just for events or meriting (BLM meripo parties can last a long time and merit quickly allowing me to get up to 15 merits a day). I used BLM to merit other stuff, but I'm finally meriting black mage for some event stuff where it can be more useful than my PUP. I don't care about having all the spells. I care about being decent with what little I do have. However, if there's no universal justification for maxing a single AM2 to 3/3 then I might as well just grab each spell.

When I first posted, I sorta expected a link to a direct answer that I was unable to find. I didn't know there was this much confusion over the interpretation of the meripo system in this regard.

After reading this I decided to page a GM and see if I could get this clarified citing a possible translation error. The GM, point blank, said "I have no idea". HAHA. He did suggest that I submit feedback regarding the issue and encourage others to do so. Perhaps it could be clarified in a future update if there's enough confusion.

If you have the time, please do so and perhaps this can be clarified by SE once and for all.

Thanks to everyone that took the time to discuss this and anymore input on the topic would be appreciated

[Kaparu]

What do you mean "No universal justification"; I just listed multiple valid reasons why meriting two of the spells to the max is a wise choice. >_>;

[Ereshkigal]

You listed multiple valid reasons to merit freeze and burst to max. You didn't cover the topic in general. My potency optimization is Water and Fire. 5/5 on Water and 2/5 on Fire (so far). I think those are very pretty spell classes, especially Flood 2, and they are my favorite. I prefer to focus on elements I enjoy about the job since I generally dislike the job in general. I could argue the fact that Flood 2 can set up people merited in thunder, but I won't. Frankly, I don't play BLM for damage, numbers, or epeen. I also have no room to merit Elemental Magic unless SE raises the Magic Category from 16 to 24. I no longer collect Rare/ex gear for BLM at this point because I have no more space for inventory -1. I already tossed Zenith Mitts +1. BLM has been pigeonholed into either keeping mobs slept or nuking down the very few melee resistant mobs in the game. It's dull. I'm just trying to complete the merits in the BLM category and I'm having a little difficulty deciding whether I should cap Flood2 and Flare2 or just get each of the spells.

[Gyth]

rambus :
ps the word merpo w/e is stupid i still can not comprehend how to spell that fake word.

i beleave with proper English rules...

Comedy gold!

rambus :
like i said i really want you to go into how this is incorrect.

Using a translation of a statement which was probably ambiguous in Japanese too doesn't "prove" anything about whats actually happening.

kaparu :
Slight derail: Why do people merit anything other than Burst and Freeze? Don't people understand what Ninjutsu does? >_>;

Blizzard and Thunder IV are your most MP-efficient standard spells

Its exactly because T4/B4 are so efficient that I don't see the huge rush to merit burst/freeze.
70% more mp for 30% more damage is NOT efficient.
Max out freeze 2 if you need epeen, but don't pretend its efficient.

I only have tornado2, only unlocked, and thats just for kirin.

[ashke]

Don't people understand what Ninjutsu does? >_>;

We don't bring NINs to Ouryu or Wyrm KS99. Tornado II on flight for the other BLMs to free nuke Ice on, Flood II on flight for the other BLMs to free nuke Thunder insanity on.




Not every BLM needs Flood or Tornado, though, but it's good to have those options available.

[Aelolmya]

ashke :

Don't people understand what Ninjutsu does? >_>;

We don't bring NINs to Ouryu or Wyrm KS99. Tornado II on flight for the other BLMs to free nuke Ice on, Flood II on flight for the other BLMs to free nuke Thunder insanity on.


Not every BLM needs Flood or Tornado, though, but it's good to have those options available.

That's really unecessary, tell your BLM's to merit more or get some better gear, neither of those resist often.

3Freeze/3Burst is the wisest choice imo, unless your LS is living back in 2005 (Or I guess BLM is your only job) and you insist on going BLM to Kirin's.

[rambus]

You listed multiple valid reasons to merit freeze and burst to max. You didn't cover the topic in general. My potency optimization is Water and Fire. 5/5 on Water and 2/5 on Fire (so far). I think those are very pretty spell classes, especially Flood 2, and they are my favorite. I prefer to focus on elements I enjoy about the job since I generally dislike the job in general. I could argue the fact that Flood 2 can set up people merited in thunder, but I won't. Frankly, I don't play BLM for damage, numbers, or epeen. I also have no room to merit Elemental Magic unless SE raises the Magic Category from 16 to 24. I no longer collect Rare/ex gear for BLM at this point because I have no more space for inventory -1. I already tossed Zenith Mitts +1. BLM has been pigeonholed into either keeping mobs slept or nuking down the very few melee resistant mobs in the game. It's dull. I'm just trying to complete the merits in the BLM category and I'm having a little difficulty deciding whether I should cap Flood2 and Flare2 or just get each of the spells.

give me your thunder IV, blizzerd IV, fire IV, water IV damage, Flood II, nad flareII on something and i will tell you why you have not of done this. on top of not meriting flood or flare II.

or just state your exact gear and i can figure it out my self

[Aelolmya]

Wow I missed that post, that can't be serious :O_o Also if you're so bent on lowering resists, use AM1.

Toodles, I have class.

[Kaparu]

Ereshkigal :
You listed multiple valid reasons to merit freeze and burst to max. You didn't cover the topic in general. My potency optimization is Water and Fire. 5/5 on Water and 2/5 on Fire (so far). I think those are very pretty spell classes, especially Flood 2, and they are my favorite. I prefer to focus on elements I enjoy about the job since I generally dislike the job in general. I could argue the fact that Flood 2 can set up people merited in thunder, but I won't. Frankly, I don't play BLM for damage, numbers, or epeen. I also have no room to merit Elemental Magic unless SE raises the Magic Category from 16 to 24. I no longer collect Rare/ex gear for BLM at this point because I have no more space for inventory -1. I already tossed Zenith Mitts +1. BLM has been pigeonholed into either keeping mobs slept or nuking down the very few melee resistant mobs in the game. It's dull. I'm just trying to complete the merits in the BLM category and I'm having a little difficulty deciding whether I should cap Flood2 and Flare2 or just get each of the spells.

...What? This isn't about "E-Peen", this is about using your brain. Tier 2 merits aside, Thunder and Blizzard IV are two of the most useful spells you have. Max your Thunder/Ice Potency, for the love of God.

[Tsuko]

Kaparu: Slight derail: Why do people merit anything other than Burst and Freeze? Don't people understand what Ninjutsu does? >_>;

Blizzard and Thunder IV are your most MP-efficient standard spells

Tornado II helps a lot with Ouryu when he's spamming slow & you want to ground him fast.

[ashke]

Well, It's a personal decision. I'm a leader by nature, so I tend to go for flexibility over power.


--
I agree it's unnecessary for me, but I also realize my BLM gear is above-the-norm and what I'm investing points/attendance.

We have about 3-4 "career" BLMs, and about 8-12 'leveled it to help the LS' which are decently merit'd, but are investing their LS points, dynamis lots, and limbus points on other jobs. B/c their gear isn't top-flight, there's always going to be someone that benefits from Ninjitsu/AM2. AH-only gear only gets your so far, if you want to be the best you're gonna be spending some time in Dynamis lotting BLM. And these guys are RDMs, or BRDs, or THFs... they're not blowing a chance at TH4 or a Chapeau for +10 elemental magic.

Personally, I don't see the utility in Freeze upgrades 2/3 vs enhanced flexibility of two other AMs. 6MBB on a MB I use exceptionally infrequently on MOBs w/ low HP... vs -30 resistance on something many others are going to (more occasionally) Salvo/MB on.

In terms of efficency, light's a far more frequent SC and Thunder IV is always going to be a bread-winner for dmg/mp for longer-term fights. Setting up more reliable ThunderIV's isn't a bad call, and in these situations a 2nd and 3rd Freeze upgrades does precisely dick.

On the flip side, anything that I'm casting a Freeze II on a ***for a MB*** dies so fast that I don't care about 6MBB, and I certainly don't care about the MAcc component when I'm sporting another +10 from Aquilos anyway. If my gear let's me drop ThunderIV's like a champ, I can sure as hell drop a FreezeII on something w/o thinking twice. To make it even more interesting, almost all of these HNMs occur in timed content. That means we're not waiting for recasts, which mean's I'm hitting it w/ FreezeII and a BlizzagaIII or a BlizzardIV. I'm not saying I don't burst on darkness. I'm not saying Freeze II MBs aren't glorious. I'm just saying in a given month, I've probably cast Tornado or Flood *more* than I've *MB'd* on Freeze II.







--
Now, if SE released some MOBs that are thunder resistant *and worth darkness SC'ing and MBing on* (that last part's the kicker), or made a MOB that made +10MAcc AND +10 elemental magic from Aquilo's necessary, then I'd probably (gladly) eat my petasos.

I was kinda hoping Chariots and other machinery would fit this niche, but, it's just easier to free nuke the 'tards w/ ice.

[rambus]

On the flip side, anything that I'm casting a Freeze II on a ***for a MB*** dies so fast that I don't care about 6MAB, and I certainly don't care about the MAcc component when I'm sporting another +10 from Aquilos anyway. If my gear let's me drop ThunderIV's like a champ, I can sure as hell drop a FreezeII on something w/o thinking twice. To make it even more interesting, almost all of these HNMs occur in timed content. That means we're not waiting for recasts, which mean's I'm hitting it w/ FreezeII and a BlizzagaIII or a BlizzardIV. I'm not saying I don't burst on darkness. I'm not saying Freeze II MBs aren't glorious. I'm just saying in a given month, I've probably cast Tornado or Flood *more* than I've *MB'd* on Freeze II.

AM II upgrades is NOT a MAB i have no idea why i need to keep saying this.

3/3 for freeze is an e peen though because that is the strongest spell you can MB.

all about that 5 int

i was 75 blm and started working on the potenies after AM II came out

thunder and bliz IV is most used.

all the AM II are the same power base.

so you merit ice and thunder burst and freeze at lest.

your better mp/ damage is in the IVs though this is why you don't need flare II

there is no reason to do quake II or flare II.
the way SE does "elemental weakness" in this game is laughable.

[Byrthnoth]

Rambus, even if the BLM nerf is for magic in general, you're lowering a monster's resistance to all the elements you'd be casting next in my scenario. You'd lose no damage because all of the BLM would have maxxed their potency for those elements and the base damage on those spells is the same.

If you have two SAMs making a skillchain of your choosing, you can also use having all the AM2 unlocked to get the Day bonus (10% damage boost) as long as it isn't Light/Dark day.
With all the AM2:
10% Bonus 6/8 of the time with another 6% (MAB+10, ~60MAB assumed between gear and traits) 2/8 of the time (when you cast the spells cooresponding to your potency)
With two AM2 capped, the same as your potency capped:
12% (6% from 10MAB + 6% MB bonus) that forces you to cast those two spells, with a 2/8 chance of a 10% day bonus.

So:
10% 6/8 of the time vs. 12% all the time on monsters that are weak to Ice and Thunder, which is, admittedly, damned near everything.
16% 2/8 of the time vs. 22% 2/8 of the time


In short, you're giving up 2% damage on a normal day to increase your ability to cast whatever spell is necessary in a given situation. If they ever come out with monsters that specifically ice and thunder don't work on, it'll pay to have every AM2. Also, if you use Static and Sorc. Gloves on MB, they probably add with the merits making it closer to 5.5%, which would push a high MAB BLM to a 1% difference between the two cases.

[rambus]

assuming you can cast all the different elements in the first place.

like genpu, i only get full damage on a frquenet basis doing thunder.

bakkyo thunder and ice.

fire bird- there is where you water can be used

the other thing- forget.

then you got kirin witch is wind only

im not sure what else may be like this but there is a lot of things where you can only use a few elemenets, the reason i called the elemental weakness thing a joke however is because ice and thunder covers most things.

like this list only bloth ice and thunder is shit on that fire bird and kirin.

now lets say you are casting on a nutral target.

on earth day i can use earth obi and relic pants giving me a 15% damage bonus and 3 int.

or i can use freeze II and get 10 MAB (merits) 18 int ( staff , pen rope and mah pants)

now i ask you, you really think i give a shit about maching days with AM II?

do you think i care about inv-1 on getting all 6 obis to match day and AM II when

+15% damage is almost = 10 MAB and +15 int?

you got 3/5 that is covered by ice or thunder and im sure other stuff is like that too