[Ark33]

I've been levelling paladin lately.
I decided to lv it since it seemed a good reliable tank job, and it is.

However, I'm disconcerted at how easy the job is compared to other jobs.
Holding hate isn't really a challenge in most xp parties.
Usually I'm able to focus for a good 30 minutes, then I start browsing the web during fights and still don't loose hate ( unless specific cases with people doing stupid things like a sam/thf using sata on a sam/war).

I haven't tested pld at any end-game stuff yet, and I think that's where Pld can show all his potential.
There are some usefull abilities for various situations ( sentinel, shield bash, lolcover and rampart) that can save the day if used in the right situation.
Since pld have really easy hate, being able to save these abilties for the special moments they are needed ( instead of wasting for hate) is what makes the job potentially attractive.

However, I also noticed two annoying things :
- lots of plds use these abilities for hate ( while it is not needed).
- there is a fuckton of plds that hold hate when it seems they have no clue about what they are doing.

I'm really concerned about this, because Pld can be (half) efficient when an idiot is spamming hate tools, and that's a problem. That's why I wonder if it should be balanced.

So I thought it might be a good idea to make Pld harder than it is by reducing enmity generated by abilities.
Yes, it would make more plds suck, but they desserve to suck.

On the other hand, these enmity abilities can probably be really usefull as a backup solution ( like joinning a battle when the mob is at 50%), so nerfing these would reduce a bit the potential of the pld.

So maybe boosting hate from invicible would solve this.
Pld would still have a really powerfull hate tool to use in emergency situations, but wouldn't be able to tank anymore by "spamming" their defensive abilities.

What do you think about this ?

[Tension]

May I ask what level your PLD is?

[Godin]

I think you should shut the fuck up. PLDs keep hate, but take damage. NINs dont take damage, but have a harder time keeping hate. The balance is perfect. Die in a fire.

[Iniin]

PLD is fine, want a challenge? go PLD/NIN

have fun grinding gear

[Panterock]

Die in a fire.

iLOL

[Tension]

Iniin :
PLD is fine, want a challenge? go PLD/NIN

have fun grinding gear

PLD/NIN actually isn't that bad. The best party experience I've ever had was with a PLD/NIN. But she was REALLY decked out.

[Iniin]

thats the thing, need some fly gearz!

[Tension]

Iniin :
thats the thing, need some fly gearz!

Can't imagine it being too bad though. It'd be a chance to use Great Swords in EXP too.

[Xellith]

lets be honest.

ninja without decked out gear is fucking shitty.

pld is no different.

[Treize Kordero]

What a horrofic idea.. i'm sorry OP but reducing enmity just so u can see who sucks at tanking and who's good at it is a fucking stupid idea
especially when the fan base feels there's a shortage of tanks and want SE to do something to make more jobs tank or add another tank tot the game.
Like from what I see you just wanna be able to tell so-so players that they suck cuz they use pure JAs whenever and however just to hold hate.

I don't know if you remember a lil game changing update known as the 2h update.. but that update made tanking alot harder due to DD able to fucking rip hate literally thru insane amount of damage... even good paladins can tell it's harder now that u got 2-3 jobs in ur party doing alot of dmg in a short time.

so the only thing PLD needs to have balanced is really it's blood tanking.. enhancing blood tanking and not ruining the quality of the job with stupid nerfs.

try again

[Ark33]

Well, my Pld is 73 atm.
I'm not really decked, but I have some decent items such as joytoy, suppa, ethereal, sattva, boxer, swift belt.
But most of my other gear are basic items, such as hauby, dusk gloves, and adamant set ( yay for noob style).

Compared to my ninja, my Pld is gimp.
Items I could use to boost my nin are : hope torque, usukane feet and perdu/kikoku.
Items I could use to boost my pld are : Valor, Homam, Koenig(?), BMask, HClaire, Hades, Fort Torque, Loq, Wlegs, Askar(?)... and of course merits ( since nin is maxed and pld is still 73).
( and of course, some items that are common to both jobs and significantly harder to obtain such as DRing, SRing, SMantle ect... )

So lots of things to push the potential of the pld a step beyond, while there are only a few items I could use to boost the Nin.
That seems really unbalanced to me, that's why I think pld is overpowered and may need to be balanced.

Also, I don't think there is any tank shortage in this game.
My ls always have too much tanks, and I see more tanks lfp than I see support.
It is harder to find rdms, whms and brds than it is to find tanks.
So yes, there are too much tanks.

I'm not really worried about pld/nin since it will probably more or less the same as nin/drk or war/nin depending of the situation ( HNMs or sky/sea triggers).

[Iniin]

Xellith :
lets be honest.

ninja without decked out gear is fucking shitty.

pld is no different.

I disagree.

You dont need to be completely decked out as NIN to work

PLD/NIN however, needs to be topnotchall+1shit

[Dian]

PLD/NIN doesn't need to have top of the line gear to work either, but it certainly helps.

[ilvryk]

Iniin :
I disagree.

You dont need to be completely decked out as NIN to work

PLD/NIN however, needs to be topnotchall+1shit

Wrong. I started pld/nin right at 74, all gears from the AH and trivial rare/ex. It works just as well. Some of my best parties were the ones on PLD right when I dinged 75. You know the kind of party where you remember everyone who was in it even though it was 10 months ago. Capped my exp from a fresh ding and earned a few merits.

[Mineyl]

Ark33 :
That seems really unbalanced to me, that's why I think pld is overpowered and may need to be balanced.

Umm... Where the hell were you when PLD was completely shunned (and pretty much still is for merit parties) for EXP and NIN was vastly superior to it in every way shape or form imaginable and no one wanted one? The PLD buffs were SE's way of "balancing" us already. Sure, maybe they overshot it and we're better now (though I really don't think so...) than NIN, but come on. It's a lot like the two-hander update. SE is being generous and giving everyone a fair shot at the spotlight instead of letting the same job(s) hog it for years.

Ark33 :
Also, I don't think there is any tank shortage in this game.
My ls always have too much tanks, and I see more tanks lfp than I see support.

o_o Good God, I'm moving to Titan.

[Xrave]

Ark33 :
Holding hate isn't really a challenge in most xp parties.
Usually I'm able to focus for a good 30 minutes, then I start browsing the web during fights and still don't loose hate ( unless specific cases with people doing stupid things like a sam/thf using sata on a sam/war).

From about 10-49 PLD works well at holding hate in XP parties and at 75 they're good at holding hate on HNMs.

From about 50 (when melees start getting their nice WSs) up through merits, if you have any melees that are geared well and know how to optimize their damage, PLD sucks at holding hate. A good party is when you're burning through mobs so fast that the PLD doesn't have time to build hate. After your initial voke or Flash at the beginning to grab the mob, the melees will start firing off WSs and will tank for the rest of the fight.

If you had no problem holding hate from 50 up to 73 or wherever you are now...you've had some pretty shitty melee.

[FurionStormRage]

I understand where the OP is coming from, since let's be honest, PLD is stupidly easy now, compared to when, say, I leveled it.

OP, PLD used to be lol, getaninorgtfo.
Seriously, people would sit around and wait for a NIN instead of inviting 1 of the 12 PLDs LFG.

The updates were SE's way of, and I loosely quote "Returning PLD to it's place as the premier endgame tank", and it worked, as well as helping people level the job to 75. I can't speak for everyone, but the people I know that have leveled PLD since the updates have a fairly easy time getting a PT, and they haven't run into people that are "NIN onry".


Xrave, I agree, PLD hate until 50 is pretty solid.
After that, friends tell me the best thing they can do is wear some DD gear, Flash and Voke, and hold hate as much as they can through damage. (Which I did before PLD got supermanned, it works fine)

[Thelian]

merit/exp ptys arent tanking, they are throwing an initial voke/flash then having everyone jump the mob. tanking begins at endgame.

pld has a easier time with hate control then nin bc nin wasnt intened as a tank job, pld was.

if you know what a tank is supposed to do you can tell a good one from a bad one within 2-3 min of a fighgt if it a end-game one, and after 1-2 mobs in a exp/merit pty. you dont need to dumb down enmity to do it. if you need this then you dont knwo what your looking for.

you dont need top of the line gear for /nin, my first few fights as /nin i had no haste gear at all.

as with invite i had 75 b4 the update. and i still dont get many invites as pld for merits. teh fact i parse only a little below my war in damage, can tank, and backup/main heal at the same time as /nin doesnt seem to matter to most.

[Iniin]

ilvryk :

Iniin :
I disagree.

You dont need to be completely decked out as NIN to work

PLD/NIN however, needs to be topnotchall+1shit

Wrong. I started pld/nin right at 74, all gears from the AH and trivial rare/ex. It works just as well. Some of my best parties were the ones on PLD right when I dinged 75. You know the kind of party where you remember everyone who was in it even though it was 10 months ago. Capped my exp from a fresh ding and earned a few merits.

im not talking about exp. you can exp pld/nin with a hauby and some str rings.

I dont remember the party i dinged 75 on PLD, that was way too many parties haha

i do on nin thou, 9 hour burn party in aht ftw <,<

PLD/NIN, well, to make it work HNM wise ou better have some good gear, or atleast hard to get haste gear

but i dont need PLD for exp anymore i got nin haha, its a fucking blessing ill tell you that

[Mack]

I remember the pt i dinged 75 in... a ToAU besieged group, long before the PLD buff and 2H update. Until I go a Hauby & some other AH dd crap gear, I wouldn't consider putting flag up for exp. Now though I think I have a chance, even though the 1voke or flash per mob rule stands. Most ppl just want us there to pull critters off the pullers, lets face it BRD/NIN has paper defense after shadows go down.

Edit:
OP can go wash the sand outta his vag. PLD doesn't need changed now.