[CrisisGaruda]

So I got the TOD of King Vinegarroon the other day but it had popped and depopped during our limbus run. So the next day I head out to get TOD again because by the next day it will be free from interrupting event schedule. So KB pops at 5:55pm Pacific, and a RDM/nin and DRK/nin have been kiting it for the past hour and still going. I called a GM and I said this holding is a bit longer from what I normally see. I felt this was excessive in regards to what the new terms of service say about how GM's don't assist with holding calls anymore. All the GM said was that holding on this particular monster is no longer monitered by GM service and he refers me to the POL site....


well anyhow, while writing this the DRK died and the RDM died from wild rage, they just hit 1 hour 20 min mark of kiting/holding KV, and to GM's... that's ok....

GM's name was Kriledex btw, I couldn't get a screenshot of him stating that it's ok due to dual box ruining my chat log.

Am I the only one that thinks this is messed up?

[AsDraBael]

Yes.

Someone has to hold KV like that, otherwise it'll depop and no one gets it. Its design requires it to be held usually or no one will have it.

[CrisisGaruda]

for the entire 1 hour and 20 minute duration, no one was there but the 2 of them. I think they were trying to shift the time frame of the mob into JP time.

[Blevien]

there are 2 reasons KV has to be kited for long periods of time.

1) so it doesn't depop while people get there

2) because fighting it at night is like asking for an acid colonic. your ass is gonna get messed up.

[Dinarii]

yeh for KV if you cant swindle your entire LS to sit there once its window opens, kiting is the only way to go. if you have smart players, you can hold it indefinately with 3ppl. but bc of its crap pop reqs and how difficult he can actually be. kiting is basically a requirement.

[Starr]

wow, cry moar

[Kayberry]

Let's look at it situationally:
- King Vinegarroon doesn't rage, which means that it is not exempted from the GM holding policy.
- There should be no reason why any linkshell should hold KV longer than 60 minutes. A linkshell not engaged in other activities should be able to get to KV within 30 minutes and may have to wait out the night before fighting. A linkshell engaged in other activities has no right holding NM's to monopolize them (Such as just entering Limbus or Dynamis and KV pops so they hold it while they complete the limbus run, then gather for KV. You get to choose whether to continue Limbus/Dynamis or cut your losses and fight KV. If your LS is big enough to do both at the same time well that's fine too.)
- If another linkshell can gather there and be battle-ready and the holder's linkshell doesn't arrive in an hour's time, there's nothing stopping the holders from releasing their claim without KV disappearing so that the battle-ready linkshell can engage. It's at this point that a GM should be called, but that still gives the other linkshell about 3 hours to complete Dynamis and kill KV before a GM responds. Since the GM doesn't witness anything, nothing will be done about it.

My opinion - the GM was either being lazy or was just plain ignorant of their own policies. But in your case, the holders eventually died, so they got what was coming to them in the end.

[ummhi]

My LS has held for 2hr before. A former LS I was in has held for more. QQ

[AsDraBael]

Someone is a newb to KV if you think it can really be held to shift its time. KV has a potentially indefinitely long window. I've seen it pop when its window is up, and I've seen periods of no earth weather for 3-4 hours at a time, followed by 10 minutes of earth where it doesnt pop with a couple more hours of no earth weather. Hell, theres a drk in my shell who wanted aces helm more than anything, so he would sit out there keeping track of it, and more than once it wouldn't pop for 12 or more hours after its window opened up.

Not to mention, its first come, first serve. We've had a rdm + whm hold KV for hours before while we finished dynamis, or if it popped early in the day before we had the manpower to handle it. If we hadn't been there, it would have simply depopped. Crying because someone else is holding it is just silly when the NMs actual pop conditions require claiming on pop if anyone wants it. Next time either get someone to camp with you so you can hold it, or just dont bother going.

[Dinarii]

AsDraBael :
Someone is a newb to KV if you think it can really be held to shift its time. KV has a potentially indefinitely long window. I've seen it pop when its window is up, and I've seen periods of no earth weather for 3-4 hours at a time, followed by 10 minutes of earth where it doesnt pop with a couple more hours of no earth weather. Hell, theres a drk in my shell who wanted aces helm more than anything, so he would sit out there keeping track of it, and more than once it wouldn't pop for 12 or more hours after its window opened up.

currently on hour 11 and no pop for us rofl.

2 nin/whm and a rdm can hold this indefinately. and dont forget that if new weather comes up and you lose claim, he wont despawn. (had this happen to us the other day) but in all honesty if you want claim and cant get your LS to sit with you for potentially an entire day... holding is the only other viable alternative if you really want it. Griping about other LSs doing the same will get you relatively little sympathy.

[~Kiyoshi~]

GMs say its fine if you hold HNMs now that can rage. People held Fafnir and they (GMs) told us it is not an issue anymore and to not call about it.

The other HNMs... you know, ones that don't rage, you can hold for as long as you want. GMs can interfere only if:

- Another alliance outside of the party "can kill it."
- Enough damage is not being dealt, i.e. enfeebling and provoking only.
- If you have a GM on the spot watching as well.

I know by first hand experience from camping KV myself. JPs would do the same shit for three hours to keep it in JP time and the GMs couldn't do anything because I didn't have an alliance with me. He sat with me, watching it going on for 30 minutes out of the three hours it happened and was answering my questions.

Yes. It is messed up. However, we can't do a damn thing about it... so just get use to it.

[Ferusio]

Kleenex anyone ?, Kv has to be kited or will depop you can't hand the nm over because it will depop part of the strat of kv is kiting the motherfucker for a year and a half till ppl pop on to kill it. this is the way it is and wont change.

[xenoshi]

If a linkshell claims KV while noone is around, they should get to hold it as long as they freakin' want.
Otherwise, it'd have depopped and noone would have got it.

Let's say in this situation a linkshell shows up while another is holding, maybe in the rdm/nin drk/nin's scenario.
If they die, and the linkshell that showed up claims then the people kiting just did them a favor.
(because, like I said, it would have otherwise depopped.)

[XxShidobuxX]

Hai Xenobaby =3 thx for the aces helm brah!

[Aikar]

~Kiyoshi~ :
GMs say its fine if you hold HNMs now that can rage. People held Fafnir and they (GMs) told us it is not an issue anymore and to not call about it.

The other HNMs... you know, ones that don't rage, you can hold for as long as you want. GMs can interfere only if:

- Another alliance outside of the party "can kill it."
- Enough damage is not being dealt, i.e. enfeebling and provoking only.
- If you have a GM on the spot watching as well.

I know by first hand experience from camping KV myself. JPs would do the same shit for three hours to keep it in JP time and the GMs couldn't do anything because I didn't have an alliance with me. He sat with me, watching it going on for 30 minutes out of the three hours it happened and was answering my questions.

Yes. It is messed up. However, we can't do a damn thing about it... so just get use to it.

Please explain why its 'messed up' if NOONE else is there to kill it.

Your fucking ignorant. So noone should kill it if it pops at a time noones able to make.... wow, what a moron.

Nothing messed up with holding it when noone else is there able to kill it. your not losing any potential drops so stop crying

[Elswood]

The policy for holding has been changed to an extent, "Monster holding only applies to those detaining a monster's death in order to change said monsters spawn window time frame." GMs always assume people call for holding just because they can't kill it and never will, and don't want to waste time, whatever the case may be.

I believe calls just need to be more specific, I got a similar thing on a Fafnir, although the call came in over an hour after it died. Holding calls are next to impossible to get through to them. GMs are ignorant, get used to it.

[Taint]

I wouldn't mind seeing a 1hr rage timer on this mob. Would be fun as hell to watch.

KV over the summer on cerberus had 2-5 LSs camping him. It sucked watching another LS kite him around for an hour because they suck at gathering but such is life. 1hr timer would atleast make LSs hurry up a bit. Its all of a 1minute fight so 59 minutes to gather is plenty. And there is zero reason to hold for pop window...he is so evil with his pop.

[Sang]

What is the minimum number of players to kill this NM?
And what is the best setup for it?

[-Alene-]

Yea I´d also like to know what Sang asked. I´ve been thinking of start to camp this guy, and besides those questions Sang metioned, I was wondering can 1 person hold/kite it? I saw pics of a NIN holding it solo till his LS got there but would SAM, BLM or WHM be able to do that? And if so, with witch sub?

edit: or hold as a BRD lol? Or BRD with one of jobs above?

[ummhi]

Solo holding needs antidotes. RDM/NIN can hold forever if not dumb. Need roughly an alliance or more, unless you guys have really good people, then it can be killed with uh... I think the minimum was like 14 or 16 or something like that? But that's a lot of kclub DRKs and CORs :3