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I just started trying this and I'd like to hear the opinions of others who've tried this in the past. Right now, I'm debating between a full DD build or an evasion/DD build hybrid. Opinions please!
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60 cap NIN/RNG ftw? Pros and Cons please.
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#2
Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:00 PM
You'll probably want to go full DD. NINs slugshot is kinda weak compared to a RNG or a SAM/RNG with winder (averaging around 300-400 from what I've witnessed over the years). Unless you get a shark gun, NINs ranged weapon choice is a little lacking and Irons are the best bullets they're able to use.
When I would do it, I'd use a lust dagger with hornet needle offhanded for quick attacks and a bunch of agility. I was able to push slugshot in excess of 500s at times, but it seemed to average much lower.
When I would do it, I'd use a lust dagger with hornet needle offhanded for quick attacks and a bunch of agility. I was able to push slugshot in excess of 500s at times, but it seemed to average much lower.
#3
Posted 30 March 2008 - 06:40 AM
So far, I'm really loving what I'm seeing. I pretty much went all out. I use Shark Gun with Iron Bullets and stack AGI/STR and Ranged Att/Acc. Ballista is all I do, so I felt safe fully meriting Marksmanship for this endeavor. I have about 211 skill with Gun Belt, which puts my 60 cap NIN at an A++ in Marksmanship. My gear is pretty much capped out in terms of DD potential and I am SO pleased with the results. My Slug Shots are hands down averaging 500-600, only dipping into the 400s on PLDs and RDMs, and capping out in the mid 700s on squishy jobs like mages and also SAMs (not sure why on this one). I just got a Mercurial Kris, and I'm almost always sitting on a WS now. I still can't decide if I should make an evasion/DD build hybrid. Here's the penalty should I decide to incorporate approx. 25 more evasion into my gear.
-7 AGI
-18 Ranged Attack
-5 Ranged Acc
-5 Marksmanship Skill
for 25 evasion.
(at night, I'd have a total of +57 evasion and during the day +47)
Seems like a big sacrifice, but stacked with Kurayami: Ni on most melee, I imagine I'll be very hard to hit, making most 1 v 1's a breeze. I might use both sets, and macro in the DD build only whenI have TP and then just invisible into the team to find an unsuspecting victim. What do you think?
-7 AGI
-18 Ranged Attack
-5 Ranged Acc
-5 Marksmanship Skill
for 25 evasion.
(at night, I'd have a total of +57 evasion and during the day +47)
Seems like a big sacrifice, but stacked with Kurayami: Ni on most melee, I imagine I'll be very hard to hit, making most 1 v 1's a breeze. I might use both sets, and macro in the DD build only whenI have TP and then just invisible into the team to find an unsuspecting victim. What do you think?
#4
Posted 30 March 2008 - 07:09 AM
nin, in my experience fighing them dont evade that well. i play thf in 60s, and sometimes jobs just dont miss (sushi Hi). (alothough i cant comment on the use or kuriyami)
war/sam with aggressor/hasso hurt like shit on high eva people, so need to be careful.
you dont need *that* much eva in ballista, just pick your fights and know when to retreat. I'd say keep the Ratk etc in, so you can kill people before they have more chances to not miss you.
war/sam with aggressor/hasso hurt like shit on high eva people, so need to be careful.
you dont need *that* much eva in ballista, just pick your fights and know when to retreat. I'd say keep the Ratk etc in, so you can kill people before they have more chances to not miss you.
#5
Posted 30 March 2008 - 10:31 AM
Nin/Rng has never really preformed too well from what I've seen, maybe a few people make it work here and there however it seems like too much work for lackluster outcomes.
#6
Posted 30 March 2008 - 02:09 PM
Shark Gun and go for Def/HP. It might cost you a little bit if you do it frequently but get at least Hojo/Blind and 2 nuking tools. The nukes are for when you slug someone and they're just about to die, get a quick spell off and then get outta there. Evasion won't help you too much at 60s, but it'll help to have a little.
As Nin/Rng you'll probably get targetted a lot and that's where the Hojo/Kurayami come in. If it's one person and you're able to land those to buffs you shouldn't have too much trouble unless it's a mage then gtfo of there. If you have a Merc Kris then fire away sir.
As Nin/Rng you'll probably get targetted a lot and that's where the Hojo/Kurayami come in. If it's one person and you're able to land those to buffs you shouldn't have too much trouble unless it's a mage then gtfo of there. If you have a Merc Kris then fire away sir.
#7
Posted 31 March 2008 - 11:56 PM
I dont know why some people think NIN/RNG doesnt do well at all, it's by far one of the best jobs best taken advantage of a lvl 60 cap C grade Marksmanship and dagger. It's true your evasion skill won't be like a THF to the point where it may save your life, but it does help a ton, especially with the use of tools. After all NIN is the only one that can use Utsusemi: Ni in a lvl 60 cap.
I never played NIN/RNG without a mercurial kris, that's like a must have in this lvl cap ballista. With Shark Gun, gun belt, and etc you should be doing higher Slug Shots than you could do with Blade: Jin. But you could probably push high damage Blade: Jin with the sacrifice of having -20 evasion and -11 agility and all those eyesore negatives for STR and Attack build. Although evasion may not be as helpful for NN as it is for THF, it's still a major help with jobs who pop up a coeurl sub or SAM/RNG sidewinders, or Pash Marhland matches. I've scored and had a much easier time doing it as a NIN/RNG than any other job I had in lvl 60 cap, in small matches I would rather go NIN/RNG than my bst or my rng....or my blu.
Pros:
Your regular AF armor is leaned a lot towards Ranged Attack and Agi and Ranged Acc already.
Your slug shots are easier to cap with the benefits of agility and Strength, creating more evasion without the sacrifice of weaker WS. (Yes evasion still helps.)
You have the benefit of ranged WS for those run-whores, much more convenient than having to get to melee range to WS while the person is running away.
Barrage, although really slow, it works.
Cons:
It's expensive.
Youre limited, you'll never beat a RNG.
Your WS is your only real dmg, unless you use Ninjutsu at the same time.
No other tricks up your sleeve.
"Shark Gun and go for Def/HP. It might cost you a little bit if you do it frequently but get at least Hojo/Blind and 2 nuking tools." Defense and HP on a NIN? No thanks, it's a waste of item slots, unless youre a MNK or PLD defense and HP build wont do shit for a NIN, you're still gonna get hit hard unless you go all out defense build enough to make a real difference. Even BLMs and RNGs with Earth Staff still get hit harsh. In my experience I don't get targetted too much as NIN, I dunno maybe because they know its a high evasion job with utsusemi NI? But Evasive or not, those jobs using sushi with TP behind them can do some real dmg if youre not careful. Gotta love those AF boots at the start of the match and at night XD
I never played NIN/RNG without a mercurial kris, that's like a must have in this lvl cap ballista. With Shark Gun, gun belt, and etc you should be doing higher Slug Shots than you could do with Blade: Jin. But you could probably push high damage Blade: Jin with the sacrifice of having -20 evasion and -11 agility and all those eyesore negatives for STR and Attack build. Although evasion may not be as helpful for NN as it is for THF, it's still a major help with jobs who pop up a coeurl sub or SAM/RNG sidewinders, or Pash Marhland matches. I've scored and had a much easier time doing it as a NIN/RNG than any other job I had in lvl 60 cap, in small matches I would rather go NIN/RNG than my bst or my rng....or my blu.
Pros:
Your regular AF armor is leaned a lot towards Ranged Attack and Agi and Ranged Acc already.
Your slug shots are easier to cap with the benefits of agility and Strength, creating more evasion without the sacrifice of weaker WS. (Yes evasion still helps.)
You have the benefit of ranged WS for those run-whores, much more convenient than having to get to melee range to WS while the person is running away.
Barrage, although really slow, it works.
Cons:
It's expensive.
Youre limited, you'll never beat a RNG.
Your WS is your only real dmg, unless you use Ninjutsu at the same time.
No other tricks up your sleeve.
"Shark Gun and go for Def/HP. It might cost you a little bit if you do it frequently but get at least Hojo/Blind and 2 nuking tools." Defense and HP on a NIN? No thanks, it's a waste of item slots, unless youre a MNK or PLD defense and HP build wont do shit for a NIN, you're still gonna get hit hard unless you go all out defense build enough to make a real difference. Even BLMs and RNGs with Earth Staff still get hit harsh. In my experience I don't get targetted too much as NIN, I dunno maybe because they know its a high evasion job with utsusemi NI? But Evasive or not, those jobs using sushi with TP behind them can do some real dmg if youre not careful. Gotta love those AF boots at the start of the match and at night XD
#8
Posted 01 April 2008 - 08:43 AM
"I never played NIN/RNG without a mercurial kris, that's like a must have in this lvl cap ballista."
Exactly. If you want to play NIN/RNG effectively, Kris is a MUST! At the very least, Hornetneedle offhand. TP Gain is the main issue as NIN/RNG.
"Although evasion may not be as helpful for NN as it is for THF, it's still a major help with jobs who pop up a coeurl sub or SAM/RNG sidewinders, or Pash Marhland matches."
In my experiences, SAM/RNG sidewinders aren't that big of an issue. They average at 300-400 damage, 500 sometimes in spike. BUT, their chances of hitting are very slim, so slim where I've seen 2 or 3 sidewinders miss my Dragoon in 60cap one after another. Most SAM/RNG's slack off with ranged ACC+/ATK+, and just go with the typical STR setup. SAM/RNG's are very squishy, and many people don't seem to realize this.
After going Monk, Ranger, Redmage, Dragoon, and Paladin to 60cap over the course of 2 years, evasion has never been an issue with the right gear. What that means is, I always targeted the Thief or Ninja, because I always used a decent ACC build tagged along with Sole Sushi(+1), Subs, or sometimes Chiefkabob's. Their squishy.......and also have low hp.
Going back to NIN/RNG:
Pros:
Two pieces of you're AF already compliment this job combo, perfectly!
You have a better survival rate than most RNG's.
You have a deadly weaponskill that can swipe off someone at a distance.
You can become a nuissance.
Cons:
VERY limited, hard to help out teammates effectively.
Sometimes hard to gain TP, especially when targeted often.
Have to rely on weaponskill too much.
To tell you the truth, I find /THF or /WAR to be more effective in 60cap, if used by the right person (and right method/tactics). IMO, I prefer a Corsair, Ranger, or even Samurai then a NIN/RNG for the sole purpose of their ability to help out a teammate. Light Shot, Shadowbind (Hard-hitting Slug-Shots), and crazy TP-Gain, weighs out a job based on shadows.
Exactly. If you want to play NIN/RNG effectively, Kris is a MUST! At the very least, Hornetneedle offhand. TP Gain is the main issue as NIN/RNG.
"Although evasion may not be as helpful for NN as it is for THF, it's still a major help with jobs who pop up a coeurl sub or SAM/RNG sidewinders, or Pash Marhland matches."
In my experiences, SAM/RNG sidewinders aren't that big of an issue. They average at 300-400 damage, 500 sometimes in spike. BUT, their chances of hitting are very slim, so slim where I've seen 2 or 3 sidewinders miss my Dragoon in 60cap one after another. Most SAM/RNG's slack off with ranged ACC+/ATK+, and just go with the typical STR setup. SAM/RNG's are very squishy, and many people don't seem to realize this.
After going Monk, Ranger, Redmage, Dragoon, and Paladin to 60cap over the course of 2 years, evasion has never been an issue with the right gear. What that means is, I always targeted the Thief or Ninja, because I always used a decent ACC build tagged along with Sole Sushi(+1), Subs, or sometimes Chiefkabob's. Their squishy.......and also have low hp.
Going back to NIN/RNG:
Pros:
Two pieces of you're AF already compliment this job combo, perfectly!
You have a better survival rate than most RNG's.
You have a deadly weaponskill that can swipe off someone at a distance.
You can become a nuissance.
Cons:
VERY limited, hard to help out teammates effectively.
Sometimes hard to gain TP, especially when targeted often.
Have to rely on weaponskill too much.
To tell you the truth, I find /THF or /WAR to be more effective in 60cap, if used by the right person (and right method/tactics). IMO, I prefer a Corsair, Ranger, or even Samurai then a NIN/RNG for the sole purpose of their ability to help out a teammate. Light Shot, Shadowbind (Hard-hitting Slug-Shots), and crazy TP-Gain, weighs out a job based on shadows.
#9
Posted 01 April 2008 - 09:20 AM
Aj5000 :
In my experiences, SAM/RNG sidewinders aren't that big of an issue. They average at 300-400 damage, 500 sometimes in spike. BUT, their chances of hitting are very slim, so slim where I've seen 2 or 3 sidewinders miss my Dragoon in 60cap one after another. Most SAM/RNG's slack off with ranged ACC+/ATK+, and just go with the typical STR setup. SAM/RNG's are very squishy, and many people don't seem to realize this.
In my experiences, SAM/RNG sidewinders aren't that big of an issue. They average at 300-400 damage, 500 sometimes in spike. BUT, their chances of hitting are very slim, so slim where I've seen 2 or 3 sidewinders miss my Dragoon in 60cap one after another. Most SAM/RNG's slack off with ranged ACC+/ATK+, and just go with the typical STR setup. SAM/RNG's are very squishy, and many people don't seem to realize this.
You can't have seen my SAM/RNG in 60s, before I sold the equipment for it. I broke 500 on practically everything, including RDM and PLD. the winder in my sig was to another SAM in 60cap, tho my record was 964 to a sam/thf. 700+ on WAR was np. the only SAMs that do 60s anymore, use sushi, and as such have shitty winder dmg. I went subs with lv4 archery.
you're right about winder acc being sketchy on SAM, but thats why you pick your targets, and use Yuki on high evasion jobs. SAM/RNG is fairly squishy, I'll admit, but knowing when to retreat and when to sprint are all part of knowing how to play the job.
#10
Posted 01 April 2008 - 09:48 AM
Ooo, I was just generalizing the SAM/RNG's, lol. I know their are many talented SAM/RNG's, I was just stating what I see now-a-day's, with SAM/RNG's. And I agree, knowing when to retreat and when to sprint is definetely all part of knowing how to play the job. That's what makes 60cap different from the other caps. Once you know how to play the job, you can be dangerous no matter what job you play as.
And Konda, I did play with you're SAM/RNG, lol!
Man, Caitsith used to own with Ballista!
And Konda, I did play with you're SAM/RNG, lol!
Man, Caitsith used to own with Ballista!
#11
Posted 01 April 2008 - 11:20 AM
Aj5000 :
man, thats an old SS >.>;;
i didnt have that much ballista specific equips then, and no no archery merits ^^;
ill post a a SS of what i was using before i sold the stuff after this pt
btw, that diorama was pretty good last night XD
Edit:
I found this to be about optimal setup, a good mix of hp,def,Racc,Ratk. Abtal Zerehs would maybe be better than AF legs, but was prepared to drop ~700k on some at the time I had my stuff. well, PCC too, but thats just obvious >.>;;
#12
Posted 01 April 2008 - 02:10 PM
ninjas are dirty and smelly....
#13
Posted 01 April 2008 - 04:48 PM
yeah, goooood setup Konda. and that diorama was fun, except Mr. Gardy ruined the original plan! That taru is way too self-centered and selfish. It's ridiculous.
The same way you equipped you're Samurai would be how I would equip a NIN/RNG. A decent balance of HP, Defense, Ranged ACC+, and Ranged ATK+.
The same way you equipped you're Samurai would be how I would equip a NIN/RNG. A decent balance of HP, Defense, Ranged ACC+, and Ranged ATK+.
#14
Posted 04 April 2008 - 08:39 PM
Screenshot from the other night's 60 cap Jugner as 60 NIN/RNG 
#15
Posted 09 April 2008 - 10:22 AM
Back when I used to do ballista NIN/RNG was my favorite combo. I have a few videos of it in action... but really I look back and they're kinda embarrassing. Lol.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HSEJmQVQENw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HSEJmQVQENw
#16
Posted 09 April 2008 - 10:32 AM
NAEEM GET UR ASS BACK HERE
#17
Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:03 PM
6VVL2fjpQK8
#18
Posted 09 April 2008 - 03:05 PM
Sole Sushi + 1 in ballista? That's a guy that SERIOUSLY doesn't plan on getting his hands dirty.
I quit doing ballista a few years ago, I can't stand the way it's played now/then, it was fun to run full on and engage the other team. Now it's all run around hide sprint sneak up and try to 1 shot or any other lame gimmick some random person can pull out of their hat. At least that was the story on Titan server. (Like Samurais that you never see unless they have tp then they leave after getting gate breach.)
That being said, I was originally a mnk and back in the day used to be able to dominate when people would try to fight, hell I would even win 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 fights back then, now they would all 3 run away if I pulled my hands out. I thought I'd try meriting my marksmanship and grabbing a few gears and give nin/rng a try on the 60 cap. What I found was, less than appealing. True, this is comin from a guy that cut his teeth in ballista as a MNK with cross counters in 50 cap and basically dominated everything I went to, so my expectations may have been unreasonable. However I just always felt I had spent too much for such a mediocre performance. Yeah true Ninja only have Ni in the 60 caps, but I mean really, when is the last time you went to a ballista and SOMEBODY wasn't spamming diaga?
It's kinda like a fad toy. It IS fun, it IS capable of doing great things and you CAN score big with that combo, but after a while, you start asking yourself why. All the knick knack cap gear you have to keep to be able to do it. All the bullets you shoot for little or no reward and as stated before, the damage is very middle of the road. Sure the damage could be worse, you could be a DRK/RNG using slug shot and missing every time, but there are a lot of better options too. And not for any one reason. There isn't any one aspect of NIN/RNG that stinks, it just gets borring and feels like you're a RNG poser. Which you are lol
True Ninja evade more than RNG, DUH, but I think you'll find the people you do ballista with 9 times out of 10 don't suck entirely or at least have decent gear. Even with my maxed evasion merits a SAM/RNG can hit me with sidewinder. What good is all that evasion if a job can hit you with a huge secondary weapon skill? You won't find many ppl in 60 cap ballista wearing Balance rings, they have acc gear just like you have evasion and agi and blah blah blah. It all comes down to the ppl you face and the tactics they use. But, never the less, NIN/RNG IS a fairly dominate job if the situation is right. And can be a total stinker if the situation is wrong.
Hear "it's situational" much people? lol
I quit doing ballista a few years ago, I can't stand the way it's played now/then, it was fun to run full on and engage the other team. Now it's all run around hide sprint sneak up and try to 1 shot or any other lame gimmick some random person can pull out of their hat. At least that was the story on Titan server. (Like Samurais that you never see unless they have tp then they leave after getting gate breach.)
That being said, I was originally a mnk and back in the day used to be able to dominate when people would try to fight, hell I would even win 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 fights back then, now they would all 3 run away if I pulled my hands out. I thought I'd try meriting my marksmanship and grabbing a few gears and give nin/rng a try on the 60 cap. What I found was, less than appealing. True, this is comin from a guy that cut his teeth in ballista as a MNK with cross counters in 50 cap and basically dominated everything I went to, so my expectations may have been unreasonable. However I just always felt I had spent too much for such a mediocre performance. Yeah true Ninja only have Ni in the 60 caps, but I mean really, when is the last time you went to a ballista and SOMEBODY wasn't spamming diaga?
It's kinda like a fad toy. It IS fun, it IS capable of doing great things and you CAN score big with that combo, but after a while, you start asking yourself why. All the knick knack cap gear you have to keep to be able to do it. All the bullets you shoot for little or no reward and as stated before, the damage is very middle of the road. Sure the damage could be worse, you could be a DRK/RNG using slug shot and missing every time, but there are a lot of better options too. And not for any one reason. There isn't any one aspect of NIN/RNG that stinks, it just gets borring and feels like you're a RNG poser. Which you are lol
True Ninja evade more than RNG, DUH, but I think you'll find the people you do ballista with 9 times out of 10 don't suck entirely or at least have decent gear. Even with my maxed evasion merits a SAM/RNG can hit me with sidewinder. What good is all that evasion if a job can hit you with a huge secondary weapon skill? You won't find many ppl in 60 cap ballista wearing Balance rings, they have acc gear just like you have evasion and agi and blah blah blah. It all comes down to the ppl you face and the tactics they use. But, never the less, NIN/RNG IS a fairly dominate job if the situation is right. And can be a total stinker if the situation is wrong.
Hear "it's situational" much people? lol
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