[Surrie]

I am alot like Cream Soda, i gauge my situation before i just go full blown DD omgwtfsauce on my parties..i will do steps/whichever samba is the most appropriate for the situation and help cure, Yes DNC is front support but it is capable of so much more..If i ever get a party that will let me building flourish > wild flourish > dancing edge i will and i will enjoy it, it doesnt mean i'm bad at my job..I access the situation, I wont use my TP for WS unless i'm sure the healers have it under control, Curing Waltz III and IV pull a ton of hate if you start spamming them so i like to try to leave the main healing to the whm or rdm in my party. I will definitely be doing self SC when i solo though, if i'm certain i can gain back that TP as fast as i can with the best haste gear i can get you better believe i'm gonna be spamming it lol.




Btw, the strategy to beating Laila is spamming Building Flourish> Wild Flourish > Dancing Edge/Evisceration on her, Spamming cure on yourself doesnt really do anything..it's all about how much damage you can do as fast as possible and trying to keep yourself alive.

[Setoshi]

I agree with Blackout.

Sure a RDM CAN have everything under control curing others, but if we can use our TP to cure others we save mages on MP pool which creates more of an opening for mages to work on. also it creates less downtime and more chains.

We're an offensive White/Red Mages we can keep others alive while dealing satsifactory damage.

Dancer is a job to support others, not yourself. Its always been a job for supporting in the FF series... SE focus is for Dancers to be support.

The -enmity on AF proves it, they gave the -enmity not for its DD'ing but for its ability to get hate from waltz's.

[Cream Soda]

If you don't have a pahil pt, mp shouldn't be a problem; especially with a rdm AND a brd. As for whms, I don't pt with them. We have essentially the same job and its a waste of a party slot imo. Last time a whm showed up in a pt I was in (was someone's rep), I immediately repped myself with a DD(they had a brd so refresh was np for them) after 2 very slow fights and went about my business and lfp'd again.

Btw, mnk's af2 has enmity- (the crown). Does this mean we can't tank salvage bosses?

Like I said, if the situation calls for it, I will main heal and I do enjoy it most. If I wanted to just straight up DD, I'd swap to monk, but there ARE situations where the pt would benefit more by a hybrid of DD'ing and tossing cures when needed.

If a chain can't be maintained means one of two things. Your mages suck or your DDs suck. Keeping track of your shadows and taking as little damage as possible and mages maintaining MP, a good merit group can keep every melee hasted, chain high, and be perfectally fine on TP.

In the end
SITUATIONAL SHIT IS SITUATIONAL and you're crazy if you think otherwise.

[Surrie]

I dont like idiots that think dancer are too weak or think they cant do shit >.> And no one ever hastes the dancer i've noticed..oh it doesnt matter that i'm /nin and i like my recast because if i pull hate and my shadows are down i'll just cure myself~ Dancer is all about debuffs, curing and supporting the party it's not about damage..Although i'm sure most merit parties won't invite a Dancer because its all about killing as fast as you can with getting hit for as little as possible..I dont think a dancer will really be "needed" to conserve TP for a merit party that is good on MP, Just ask your party if you can go full DD >.> Because if you pull hate on curing and get your TP stolen your going to cry a emo river and wish you had used it for something else besides curing, Please don't limit us dancer's to JUST healing and debuffing..I would like to be as useful as possible without people saying "Oh i'd get so pissed if the dancer did SOMETHING ELSE BUT HEAL LAWL" get over your stupid "dancer's are just good for healz" and realize that this job is one of the most situational jobs in the game! We can do so much more >.> But doesnt mean that we will~ You think SE wanted NIN to be a tank when they made it? Hell no, they didn't intend for it at all >.> but they said "It has turned out well"..This sounds about as stupid as the fucking idiot in my party that said "Blue Mage's can't skillchain" ; I'm sorry but if i'm not allowed to even LOOK or think about using my job abilties and this job to the fullest intent i won't even bother partying with your ass.

The -enmity on AF proves it, they gave the -enmity not for its DD'ing but for its ability to get hate from waltz's.

This shit is funny.. -enmity won't help you get hate from waltz's but +enmity sure will~ And af is not worn full time..at least for me..they are macro pieces..because how can you pull hate with -enmity? god knows >_>;



Ok rant off..Don't mind me i just woke up and i'm crabby, plus i'm sick.

[Blackout]

Hmm I'm not trying to put any job in a box or tell you that your not capable of doing the whole DD thing. However, if your heals and debuffs are not needed the party is better off w/o you. To paraphrase what I said in my previous post, if I invited you I need your abilities to heal and debuff more then I need a DD. Therefore I expect you to use your resources, like tp, to full fill the roll I need you for.

True a Rdm, Whm, Sch and maybe even Blu could easily handled the majority of healing duties at the bird camps with just brd or cor support. But What if I can't find a brd or cor I would then look for another healer to help reduce the MP cost to me. DNC is a perfect fit to fill in that roll now, they can debuff w/o cast back, they heal w/o mp so no resting and birds just happen t be weak to piercing so your melee would help make up for not having buffs. You bring all this to the table plus it would free me up to pull like a brd and have the next prey ready by the end of battle.

Sorry got off track there I am trying to illustrate that If I invite a dancer it should be understood that I am wanting you for your cure/debuff abilities. I not trying to belittle or box in the job, but if you come to my party and say "Hey there is a Red/Sch/Whm let me waste my TP and finishing moves on my silly solo SC." I'm going to be some what frustrated.

Dancer is a very powerful job. However, I myself find it counter-productive to use Dancer as a DD. Anytime that I have tried to use a ws It would seem like the party need an increase in healing at that moment. I really belive that a dnc wasting its tp on w/s is as silly as a rdm wasting its MP on Nukes. Both can produce good results but at the same time will leave you and your party in a bad situation when cures are needed most

[Banggugyangu]

Blackout :
Hmm I'm not trying to put any job in a box or tell you that your not capable of doing the whole DD thing. However, if your heals and debuffs are not needed the party is better off w/o you. To paraphrase what I said in my previous post, if I invited you I need your abilities to heal and debuff more then I need a DD. Therefore I expect you to use your resources, like tp, to full fill the roll I need you for.

True a Rdm, Whm, Sch and maybe even Blu could easily handled the majority of healing duties at the bird camps with just brd or cor support. But What if I can't find a brd or cor I would then look for another healer to help reduce the MP cost to me. DNC is a perfect fit to fill in that roll now, they can debuff w/o cast back, they heal w/o mp so no resting and birds just happen t be weak to piercing so your melee would help make up for not having buffs. You bring all this to the table plus it would free me up to pull like a brd and have the next prey ready by the end of battle.

Sorry got off track there I am trying to illustrate that If I invite a dancer it should be understood that I am wanting you for your cure/debuff abilities. I not trying to belittle or box in the job, but if you come to my party and say "Hey there is a Red/Sch/Whm let me waste my TP and finishing moves on my silly solo SC." I'm going to be some what frustrated.

Dancer is a very powerful job. However, I myself find it counter-productive to use Dancer as a DD. Anytime that I have tried to use a ws It would seem like the party need an increase in healing at that moment. I really belive that a dnc wasting its tp on w/s is as silly as a rdm wasting its MP on Nukes. Both can produce good results but at the same time will leave you and your party in a bad situation when cures are needed most

what you're failing to realize is this:

Even if you invited a DNC simply as JUST a DD... if that DNC is worth having in your PT:

He will STILL debuff the mob.
He will STILL buff the melees.
He will STILL throw out the needed cures.

Anything beyond that is superfluous for your PT.

Now... a 5% increase to all melee's attack speed that ignores the haste cap, I believe, fills in any gaps that the DNC may have between his own damage and the damage a normal DD would have.

There's a time and place to be main healer... There's a time and place to be a DD... But regardless... DNC is ALWAYS support... Saying "I'm only inviting you to use your abilities to support the PT." is a moot point.. cuz any DNC that deserves to be playing the job will do that no matter what his role is.

And any DNC that knows anything about melee will regularly WS harder than any RDM can nuke... And a DNC's TP is infinitely easier to restore.

[Cream Soda]

Blackout, Bangg covered most of it, but forgot to add that you're just a fucking idiot. The next time you want to argue with someone, will you actually read what the fuck they're saying?

the fastest way for DNC to tp gain is the steps (enfeebles) so DD or not, they're still going to be happening.

HoW aBoUt ThIs? I WiLl SaY tHe NeXt StAtEmEnT iN CaPs LoCk sO tHaT sOmEoNe Of YoUr BrAiN lEvEl MaY cOmPrEhEnD:

YOU FUCKING DUMBASS, ENFEEBLES/DEBUFFS IS NOT EVEN AN ISSUE SO QUIT BRINGING IT UP. THE STEP MOVES ARE THE FASTEST WAY TO TP GAIN SO PLAYING THE ROLE OF DD, YOU ARE STILL ENFEEBLING THE MOB.

I am very sorry that you suck so bad, that you can't handle four DD/nin as rdm in a meripo with refresh and ballad. If I ever come to your party, I'll strictly be main healer.

Also shut the fuck up about the solo skillchain shit, because I don't even do it. So against me, you have no point with that shit.

[Surrie]

DNC= Infinite TP once you start using steps and use reverse flourish, Like the quote said TP is easy to restore..A DNC will be DDing no matter what! I know how to play DNC, i don't waste my TP self skill chaining (solo onry) but the TP is not just for curing, its for steps, samba's..Haste Samba is nice in a merit party.

[Banggugyangu]

Blackout :
Sorry got off track there I am trying to illustrate that If I invite a dancer it should be understood that I am wanting you for your cure/debuff abilities. I not trying to belittle or box in the job, but if you come to my party and say "Hey there is a Red/Sch/Whm let me waste my TP and finishing moves on my silly solo SC." I'm going to be some what frustrated.

Sorry for quoting the same post twice... first post I was half asleep and couldn't see, as I had just woken up and was yet to put in my contacts...

your "Hey there is a RDM/SCH/WHM... blah blah blah" line made me laugh... because when I hit 59, my first dancing edge dealt 900 damage *@ LEVEL 59~!* and left me with 5 finishing moves. moments later: 73 TP.

hmm... you're right... my TP was totally wasted there... I mean.. I didn't even self-SC... Even though that one WS wasn't my best in that PT, yet was higher than any of the other melees' highest ... It was a complete waste of my TP I guess...


On a side note... that WS is the reason I'm reserved on joytoy use for when I hit the appropriate level... I mean... yes the TP gain would be nice... but using sushi kills the damage output for attack speed/acc that I wouldn't need w/ dagger/shield or dagger/dagger combos. I'll have to parse w/ and w/o joytoy to make my final decision, but I still believe that it's "REAL" use on DNC is strictly a main-healing situation w/ /SAM *unless hate's a serious issue, then /NIN*

[Blackout]

Bang you are right, even when DDing a dance should still be doing all of his job responsibilities. You are right in order to pull off the whole DD thing you would Have to use your step which are the enfeebles. I wouldn't say that I failed to realize that you would need to do you steps to get that finishing moves so much as I did not address it.

I'll say this again From my experience with the Job Dancer it is more productive to the party for you to use your tp use more towards healing then DDing. It lower the strain on mp to your healing mages and can make up for the loss of additional mp regen by not having a source or refresh, increasing the potential for higher chains and lower down time. I don't know if this comes from years of being a mage but when I play DNC I don't feel comfortable when my tp gets low, prefer to have a reserve so that if the shit hit the fan I know I can keep everyone up and kicking.

Creamsoda you would think I personally attack you from the way you're acting. I never did I simply laid out dancer and the Wild Flourish ability from my option and my point of view. I never said you where bad at your job or wrong. If you do not wish to see other people's options then stop reading this forum. If you disagree with me Thats fine say what you have to say but you don't need to attack me personally. I never Said I was incapable of main healing with a brd and 4dds/nin. You made that up! All you can accomplish by attacking me and making stuff up is make yourself look like a fool. Then anything you have to say of value to the argument or discussion will be lost because you will longer have credibility. Oh well you probably won't get what I'm saying. Now drop some more F-Bombs and show everyone how right you are E-Thug

[Cream Soda]

No, you didn't say it, but from your words, yes, it was implied, whether intentionally or not. As for "my experience," you are a lv 65 dnc correct? Your experience isn't applicable in merit parties then.

[Seibar]

who merits with dncs? i need to find these people, lol. only my brd sees the light of day! been trying to convince my ls that stutter step > threnody with no luck.
i enjoyed ptying with dancer, i did a ws every few fights but usually i found myself just holding onto 100-300tp just in case some "real" DD pulled hate and needed a quick cure.

theres no reason you cant dd, theres no reason you cant heal and enfeeble, theres no reason you cant do both. just seemed to me whenever i did a flourish charged ws that -somehow- someone would then need my tp faster then the 30 seconds it takes to regain it

[Cream Soda]

I've kinda been saying that the entire thread, but they don't seem to understand xD
Situational shit is situational.

[Surrie]

theres no reason you cant dd, theres no reason you cant heal and enfeeble, theres no reason you cant do both. just seemed to me whenever i did a flourish charged ws that -somehow- someone would then need my tp faster then the 30 seconds it takes to regain it

This is right, even though my DNC is still 60..its like what cream soda has been trying to say..

Situational shit is situational.

[Nimbusyosh]

Surrie :

theres no reason you cant dd, theres no reason you cant heal and enfeeble, theres no reason you cant do both. just seemed to me whenever i did a flourish charged ws that -somehow- someone would then need my tp faster then the 30 seconds it takes to regain it

This is right, even though my DNC is still 60..its like what cream soda has been trying to say..

Situational shit is situational.

1- It's funny how someone come in TRYING to be helpful and they get flamed to shyt. Sure, we all know that war's provoke turns mobs, and it makes you chuckle when someone JUST realizes this and is all like "WOW, THIS IS TEH AWSOME!"; yet with FFXI subscriptions on the decline, we still have jackasses belittling the fresh crop that we have.

Looks like I'mma have to take the flame hat outta retirement.....

And excuse myself for "dancing" around the issue (( lawl,,, get it?))

2- Defender, one of the greatest PLD's ever to walk vannadiel on 28 servers gave me advice I'll use in as many situations as possible. "Be ready for ANYTHING". As a PLD, I carry equip for tank, DD, and back-up heal; as well as a sword/shield 2 of each, club ( undead and MP after chiverly is poped), dagger (Whatcha know bout dat energy drain?), staff 2X, a great sword AND a polearm (for skill up teim).... because I know that just about any job can do just about ANYTHING... it's just that some jobs are better at doing some things than others.

With this mindset, as a DNC, I fill in the gaps.... ALL of them. Between 60-65 I've done every single job in the party except nuke, which I prolly could have done (poorly) as well if I had the ninja tools WITH magic burst.

None of know the TRUE ROLE of dnc yet ( and BTW, Dnc in FFT was NOT front line support, but rather a AOE nuke/debuffer) but if you have a good DNC in your party, they can cover damn near ALL roles.

Funny story... this fail @ life of a galka BRD ( yeah, i'm talkin' bout YOU kingkang), in-between telling me "I'm the leader in this party, so what I say goes" "and you need to listen to your boss when he tells you what to do **hand jerk motion**" told me "if you want to be a DD, go level THF" while I was out curing his RDM AND out damaging his THF while also sub tanking.

TL;DR

Don't be a fail at life. Dance how you wanna, just do it on beat.

4HORSEMAN(YOU CAN DANCE IF YOU WANNU)4LIPHE

[Carynaira]

Gtfo necrobump