[Redd7x7]

Fuck it, just have 4k EXP reward for coming.

I just want people to come, screw everything else.

[tebian]

I know your making proposal for Ballista but I do know a lot of people who play the Brenner on Sylph atm with no reward at all. Ballista for the new players is really not within there scope of game play. Very few of them could navigate the quest just to get it started. I loved playing Ballista for first few years but it has lost all appeal at least on our server. I have seen few shouts just last week even about it and not many responded. I really think you would have more of chance getting new things added to Brenner before SE would do mod that old system. Brenner is at least more like the standard online games with a capture flag setup theme. It has its own zones and could have drops, etc setup just like a dynamis with a central treasure. Even the communications in there is setup like your playing separate game. I really think PvP is fun and if you check the "reservations" (wow SE imagine if you could only do that for dynamis) list on our server there is large blocks of time done by the linkshells each day. Great idea about Ballista, I agree one way or another you should get more return out of it.

Brenner:

[Lucavi]

I find it sad that people only came to do that kind of numbers if that's the case. The nerf may have been unappreciated, but refusing to try and play through it is rather stuborn. I feel that after that nerf, it becomes necessary for teamwork even more, now that one person with 100%+TP (on several jobs) isn't a garunteed gatebreech. And appearantly that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

I see what you're saying, but I feel it sad that SE has a bad habit of just coming in, making a sweeping change, then leaving, thus ignoring any feedback. That's not how a company should operate. Blue mages have been retardedly strong since their inception to FFXI, mainly through the use of stun-locking and extremely powerful mid-range spells; ranges that would cause a melee to lose their tp, yet a blu can fire it off easily.

Sure, you adjust, but honestly, how many people "adjusted" as opposed to "quit"? Do you feel that ballista is better now than it was now that the "whiners" have quit? Its a shell of its former self on just about every server, and its been this way for a long time.

While I have no problems with people claiming that change is good, I do have a problem with people that would rather say that everyone else BUT them was wrong, even when its clear that there is an issue here.

Rdm was always the one manageable "god" class -- ballista couldn't handle two, and certainly not at the expense of every melee that wasn't sam/rng.

[Cidel]

Ok I'll admit, SE did simply throw that multi-hit WS nerf out there and then pretty much ignored the responses. Just like they for the most part ignored the many plees to seriously nerf BLU in PvP. (Sure, BLUs were toned down, but they were never fixed the way people wanted, which is why people still talk about BLUs being so much better than most jobs.) I still feel that a equally skilled RDM is the solution to BLU's "power." What I can't understand is SE's auto-sorting of teams in Ballista. I still see lovely little issues like placing 1 team with a BLU and 2RDMs and giving the other team a lone WHM.

Do you feel that ballista is better now than it was now that the "whiners" have quit?

To an extent yes, sure the OMs are never as big as they used to be, but there is a noticable dissapearance of:

/shout"____ you pussy!!! Try killing me without the RDM!"
/shout"lol u got pwned!"
/shout"U ASS!"
/shout"Come to and we'll 1 v 1 and totally forget there is the diorama for this kinda shit."
/shout"Why?! So you can get your team there to save your ass?!"
/shout"BLAH BLAH BLAH ME > JOO"
/shout"OMGWTFspamtheentirematch"

If I can recall, that was not too different from the shouting matches I've heard pre-nerf, and what I believe seems to have plagued Fenrir after so many people jumped boat. Now all Alexander sees are 60 cap matches that grow in size depending on the JP time, but they easily attract 20+ people each match, and for the most part, there's none of that. Uncapped matches attract significantly less, because, to my understanding, those are equipment fights.

[TheGriever]

Cidel :
If I can recall, that was not too different from the shouting matches I've heard pre-nerf, and what I believe seems to have plagued Fenrir after so many people jumped boat. Now all Alexander sees are 60 cap matches that grow in size depending on the JP time, but they easily attract 20+ people each match, and for the most part, there's none of that. Uncapped matches attract significantly less, because, to my understanding, those are equipment fights.

See thats what I dont understand about people, first you whine that a job is too powerful so you quit the game, but then you whine that you didnt want a multi ws nerf that usually meant 1-hit kills....and RNG nerf...BLU can kill you in a few spells cause you were too stupid to realize you were being targetted by the BLU....and now you dont go to uncaps because some one has better equiment than you? WTF...You will never be content, instead of finding the challenge and team work required to make it work, youd rather have the match handed to you in a silver platter for the sad job you came as, I mean sure I dont hear you complaining when your melee kills a BLM taru in one WS but you whine when the blu hit you with Disseverment, or the RDM had phalanx up when u hit em. It's that kind of attitude that really saddens me, I play different jobs I know what I go up against and I even play BST that has dealt with BLUs and MNKs, and I seriously think it's pathetic people think BLU is over-powered and all the other excuses, cause even before BLU came along people were already making these excuses, but now they found some job to blame it all on. WS skill nerf was to create balance, bind nerfs, enfeebling nerfs...all those things work and even though ballista is not perfect it is still balanced enough to play with your TEAM. God dammit, you dont play uncap cause you cant get an Osode...so what...

Does my point of view upset anyone? Only way to shut you up is if everyone plays the same job and gets the same equipment handed to them, even then noobs will still complain.

[Lucavi]

I still feel that a equally skilled RDM is the solution to BLU's "power."

I already clearly stated that rdm was always the strongest, and blu simply matched the power of rdm. The difference between both, however, is the fact that since rdm was around since the game's inception, there was never a "RUSH TO RDM CUZ ITS NEWWWW!!" zerg mentality like there was with blu. Everyone already knew what you could get with rdm -- lots of binding, annoying tactics, and a job that's hard to bring down.

With blu it was something new, so right off the back, everyone wanted to try it, but once it was discovered that all you needed were two stun spells and death scissors for everything pre-uncapped to rape the faces of each and every opponent outside of a rdm that crossed your path, every tom, dick, and harry suddenly flocked to blu. It only became worse on Hades when blu AF came out, because now that you could "look the part", everyone that didn't initially level it suddenly joined the fold.

Some people (like myself) stuck to their guns and worked on how to take them down, but many people simply used the "can't beat em -- join em" mentality that was relatively prevalent during the mnk/thf days a few years back, and suddenly half the players of any particular match were AF-sporting blus dropping death scissor bombs across the battlefield.

I enjoyed the matches up until I finally ended my illustrious tenure, and I hear sam/rng is still the hot thing. If I was playing something else, I'd say that we'll have to see if the developers modify it, but this is SE -- they won't do a damned thing.

[Ferusio]

gel where the fuck-a-doodel-do have you been

[Lucavi]

PC still getting worked on -- I can only campaign really until its fixed. I'll be back hopefully by thursday full-time.

[blunted]

ffxi been dead move the fuck on lol

[Redd7x7]

blunted :
ffxi been dead move the fuck on lol

Stupidity must alway result every time you voice your opinion. Entertain me by trying to prove otherwise.

[Skyrin]

Blu is not overpowered stop your bitching. Blu does a WS for 76 MP everynow and then, and the average Blu doesnt have more than 600mp, thats 7 or so Weaponskills before your absolutely usesless not including other spells you might use. A sam can do 2-3 WS in the time a Blu can do 3 Spells and their WS dont cost them any MP. I have beaten Blus on Drg and Bst, Drg WAY before the 2h patch so learn how to beat them and stfu ;D
Gelwain your completely wrong normal weaponskills have a longer or equal range to Blu spells.

[TheGriever]

I said this on another post, Fealty and Shield mastery is broken. Shield blocks Disseverment poison 100% of the time. and blocks stun from headbutt 80% of the time, no only does it give the PLD TP, it nullifies a lot of damage. And they got Auto Refresh and chivalry.... but you know why people dont bitch so much about pld than they do with blu? Cause pld/rdm wont kill you like blu will. RDM is different, RDM annoys you by gettin u killed. But hey lets all scapegoat on the jews for our problems...whoops I mean BLUs...then agan we cant do anythng about it so lets all quit ballista. Besides Im tired of of looking at some one elses Byakko's Haidate.

(ya youd rather be a puss* than improvise)

[Aeonknight]

Actually griever, the shield doesn't block out the secondary effects of spells. Fealty does. Does destroy physical spell dmg however.

[TheGriever]

Aeonknight :
Actually griever, the shield doesn't block out the secondary effects of spells. Fealty does. Does destroy physical spell dmg however.

Actually Aeon, youre wrong, without fealty on if you hit a PLD face to face and shield blocks 1 hit of disseverment, the poison does not stick. I have tested this, 20/20 times disseverment poison failed. I even recorded it but never posted I figured everyone knew about this. I dont hit a PLD/RDM with disseverment unless he is slep so I can get em from behind or the sides. Try it with your PLD buddy that has shield skilled up, unless there was a path in the past 3 weeks that I didnt know, Shield mastery is broken. Same thing goes for Head Butt and any other single or multi hit spell. Try it if you want. Except the only difference between headbutt and diss, is that head butt is a single hit, thus the chances of 1 hit being blocked as opposed to 5 is zinch, and therefor stun sometimes sticks. Again, this is without Fealty, which is why I meantioned it I know it makes no sense, which is why it ticked me off when I found out, I figured I was just a late bloomer.

There is a few things people don't know about BLU, like did you know that Actinic Burst wipes Blink shadows? Not utsusemi, but the magic spell Blink. Also, it was really gay when I discovered this, but I was nin/rng and this blu was casting radiant breath on me while I was bound, i popped a spiritual incense and it didnt work...what...the...fawk?Doesnt carnal incense work on physical spells? Also, why does carnal incense work on ranged attacks and there is an incense that makes ranged attacks obsolete ;_; And how can you parry counter and block and guard while casting a spell??See? I can bitch about ballista too, but Id rather improvise and work with my team to do what I can win and I do, cause maybe I cant beat a RDM with my nin head on, but I can definately take them down with the help of my team, thats what ballista is about, its about strategy not wishing your job was perfect for all situatons.

[Lucavi]

Gelwain your completely wrong normal weaponskills have a longer or equal range to Blu spells.

You're absolutely insane if you think that a melee WS has more range than jet stream, which was one of the de-facto mid-range killers back in the early days of blu rape. Having an incredibly short casting time and the freedom to stand in one direction and fire behind you, or to the side, is also a massive boon. A blu playing mid-range kill-stealer was just as effective spamming jet stream as a sam/rng is spamming sidewinder at 15% of the opponent's HP.

I have beaten Blus on Drg and Bst, Drg WAY before the 2h patch so learn how to beat them and stfu ;D

I could sit here and rant about how I've beaten every job 1v1 with my drg too, but that does nothing to establish the reality that blue mage played a massive role in the outright destruction of ballista on various servers. The easiest thing on a forum to do is to scream "you all just need skill!", because it simply ignores the fact that no matter how YOU, in particular, handle things, that says nothing about how others have handled the same thing.

I saw many ballista elites that were personal friends of mine quit out of frustration of the sheer fact that everyone and their grandmother flocked to blu once they saw how wonderful and cheap stun-spamming and death scissors / jet stream were. I was never a huge fan of uncapped, but the original inception of the big three was a demoralizing time to say the least. Frankly, I don't care if anyone thinks that those elites that quit should have just "learned to adapt", or "gotten better". Regardless of how or why they left, the fact remains that ballista was crippled by their departure, and it has yet to make a stable recovery.

The worst part is not simply that many veterans left, but that there was a distinct lack of new elite talent to fill the void. As the job variety left, it was merely replaced by sam/rngs, war/nins, blus, rdms, and the occasional pld. The matches become dull mis-mashes of the same jobs, and little by little, people weaned themselves away from it.

The fact that ballista is a smoldering corpse nowadays doesn't bother me in the slightest. When you make a fairly tasty dish, and then leave it out for weeks, it becomes a nasty pile of slop. There are other MMOs with superior PVP markets, and I enjoy them. The only thing that continues to bother me about ballista are the people that are so blind as to believe that balancing jobs instead of forcing the general masses (the same people that can't seem to get a standard xp party down right) to somehow "adapt" to issues that are clearly unbalanced is the true solution to "fixing" ballista.

Only the elite find ways to adapt through all forms of adversity, but when you're designing a pvp game with the function of drawing in a sizable amount of players (as evidenced by the massive 72-player limit per side -- even more than WoW's staged battlegrounds), the best thing to do when faced with imbalances is to simply adjust them. Theres a reason why guild wars, WoW's and hell, even the fucking "City Of" series continue to have exciting and highly-populated PVP arenas.

Oh, and rewards always help.

[Cidel]

Lucavi :
but that does nothing to establish the reality that blue mage played a massive role in the outright destruction of ballista on various servers. The easiest thing on a forum to do is to scream "you all just need skill!", because it simply ignores the fact that no matter how YOU, in particular, handle things, that says nothing about how others have handled the same thing.

quit out of frustration of the sheer fact that everyone and their grandmother flocked to blu once they saw how wonderful and cheap stun-spamming and death scissors / jet stream were. I was never a huge fan of uncapped, but the original inception of the big three was a demoralizing time to say the least. Frankly, I don't care if anyone thinks that those elites that quit should have just "learned to adapt", or "gotten better". Regardless of how or why they left, the fact remains that ballista was crippled by their departure, and it has yet to make a stable recovery.

The only thing that continues to bother me about ballista are the people that are so blind as to believe that balancing jobs instead of forcing the general masses (the same people that can't seem to get a standard xp party down right) to somehow "adapt" to issues that are clearly unbalanced is the true solution to "fixing" ballista.

QFT

And just to add to it, I also blame BLUs for making caps lower than 50 (okay 40, we hardly even had 50 caps on Alexander back in the day even before BLU) non-existant on our server and most likely the rest. I remember getting on BLM one day on a 30 cap and being almost helpless to a new BLU thanks to just Bludgeon and Head Butt. And please don't blame it on the inventory space for low lvl gear, that wasn't an issue for the 16+ people that would show up for even the 30 caps, even with new gear being introduced.

Note, I blame BLU, I don't hate or fear BLU, even on WHM. I know from experience that BLUs are easily controlled if you go the right way about doing it, and I guess a lot of people just refused to find that way and gave up.

.... but you know why people dont bitch so much about pld than they do with blu? Cause pld/rdm wont kill you like blu will. RDM is different, RDM annoys you by gettin u killed. But hey lets all scapegoat on the jews for our problems...whoops I mean BLUs...then agan we cant do anythng about it so lets all quit ballista.

Had to QFT this one too.

[Aeonknight]

TheGriever :

Aeonknight :
Actually griever, the shield doesn't block out the secondary effects of spells. Fealty does. Does destroy physical spell dmg however.

Actually Aeon, youre wrong, without fealty on if you hit a PLD face to face and shield blocks 1 hit of disseverment, the poison does not stick. I have tested this, 20/20 times disseverment poison failed. I even recorded it but never posted I figured everyone knew about this. I dont hit a PLD/RDM with disseverment unless he is slep so I can get em from behind or the sides. Try it with your PLD buddy that has shield skilled up, unless there was a path in the past 3 weeks that I didnt know, Shield mastery is broken. Same thing goes for Head Butt and any other single or multi hit spell. Try it if you want. Except the only difference between headbutt and diss, is that head butt is a single hit, thus the chances of 1 hit being blocked as opposed to 5 is zinch, and therefor stun sometimes sticks. Again, this is without Fealty, which is why I meantioned it I know it makes no sense, which is why it ticked me off when I found out, I figured I was just a late bloomer.

There is a few things people don't know about BLU, like did you know that Actinic Burst wipes Blink shadows? Not utsusemi, but the magic spell Blink. Also, it was really gay when I discovered this, but I was nin/rng and this blu was casting radiant breath on me while I was bound, i popped a spiritual incense and it didnt work...what...the...fawk?Doesnt carnal incense work on physical spells? Also, why does carnal incense work on ranged attacks and there is an incense that makes ranged attacks obsolete ;_; And how can you parry counter and block and guard while casting a spell??See? I can bitch about ballista too, but Id rather improvise and work with my team to do what I can win and I do, cause maybe I cant beat a RDM with my nin head on, but I can definately take them down with the help of my team, thats what ballista is about, its about strategy not wishing your job was perfect for all situatons.

I would like to test that, but not many people are willing to be guinea pigs for this sort of thing...
Also, I got a few questions about your tests.

Were you the BLU or your opponent?

What were said BLU's merits/gear? Cause if he's lacking Magic Accuracy merits and/or homam helm or even nashira... it's quite possible you/him simply resisted.

Did the PLD let himself get killed after each successful stick? Cause poison IS a status effect, and they do eventually start getting resisted when you abuse them.

Was Chain Affinity used?


As for the shadow wiping thing.. I'm very much so aware of that. In fact I think Rambus made a list back in the day of the effects of blue magic on certain shadow types (Utsusemi and Blink). If you're a BLU, live by that list. Memorize the whole damn thing. But you gotta find it first

Yea a few BLU spells don't behave as they should in ballista (as listed in your experience with the breath spell), which is what makes the magic oh so fun to use.
Here's a fun fact: Jettatura also wipes Blink shadows. Despite not being AoE Just learned this 4 days ago.

[Lucavi]

And just to add to it, I also blame BLUs for making caps lower than 50 (okay 40, we hardly even had 50 caps on Alexander back in the day even before BLU) non-existant on our server and most likely the rest. I remember getting on BLM one day on a 30 cap and being almost helpless to a new BLU thanks to just Bludgeon and Head Butt. And please don't blame it on the inventory space for low lvl gear, that wasn't an issue for the 16+ people that would show up for even the 30 caps, even with new gear being introduced.

Nice to see we can agree on something ballista-related.

Note, I blame BLU, I don't hate or fear BLU, even on WHM. I know from experience that BLUs are easily controlled if you go the right way about doing it, and I guess a lot of people just refused to find that way and gave up.

And this happens in plenty of games. Not everyone is going to find a solution for everything. Not everyone is either good enough, has enough desire to (in their situation -- this one being under the banner of ballista), or simply cares enough about the activity. A lot of people that quit were on the fringe in that they were becoming bored of the repetition before blu emerged, but blu was certainly that little "push" they needed to give it up and focus on other events that actually rewarded them for engaging in.

What separates a success in this instance from a failure is how the makers of said game react and adjust. In a MMO, when something is imbalanced, and certainly when enough people raise a stink about it, it gets patched. This doesn't happen in FFXI. Things in ballista rarely get adjusted, and even when they do, theres no "lets take a look at how things are going 4 months from now and decide if that was enough", like in some other games. I have a feeling that dozens of players would come back if only they knew that they at least had a CHANCE of a say in SE's book, but as we realists know, it won't happen. Thus, the interest level plummets through the floor, and only a small percentage of the absolute diehards (or the new flock that came late to the scene) remain.

A few of those purists get the warped notion that SE isn't to blame, and in fact, the playerbase themselves are to blame (gotta love those who blame the victim), and here's where you end up: a situation that isn't going to get better because SE doesn't care, and many of the remaining players blaming just about anything that moves and breathes for the loss of the glory days. Even people like me -- people that understand why it died -- are powerless, because SE listens to NO ONE, not even those who understand.

And that is why I happily trot back to my BGs. That 2.4 patch was lovely.

Cause pld/rdm wont kill you like blu will.

That's about the Gist of it. There are 3 (maybe 4 if you consider sam/rng, but they aren't flat out invincible -yet-) jobs that are frustratingly difficult to take down. Lets examine:

Rdm: A magically-enhanced brick wall that can easily stop you from doing damage, and can un-do all of the damage you've dealt in seconds. How do they use their power? They use it through a mixture of supporting others, enfeebling the shit out of opponents, and seldom take matters into their own hands and nuking someone into the ground.

Threat level? 8.5, simply because while they may not outright kill you, they can sure as hell make it easy for someone else to do it.

Pld: A physically and magically, thus truly enhanced brick wall. Plds can stop you from doing damage here and there through flash and shield bash, but their main focus lies in redirecting the flow of damage to them, and then barely taking any of it. Nothing frustrates a hungry DD like being voked straight into a sentinel for single digit hits. Plds can also support their teammates, and a well-built healing pld is quite the battle-line preserver.

Thread level? 5.5. Plds are as much of a threat as you allow them to become. They are an annoyance, yes, and can turn the tide of battle, albeit slowly, but its possible to ignore a pld entirely unless they're trying to be a hybrid DD and take the fight to you.

Blu: Much like rdm, a magically-enhanced force of nature, but also like pld, with the capability to physically stack the defense. Unlike both, however, blu can easily combine as much physical damage (through spells) as magic damage, and can heal to boot, just not as efficiently. They can stun-lock you to death, and chew up HP in a matter of seconds, but becomes just your average Joe once all the MP is gone. While they have a full mp pool, however, praying seems like a good choice.

Threat level? 9.5 A good blu with a dangerous reputation used to remind me of the old school mnk/sams when ballista first came out -- I'd never seen more people run FROM a single person than I have a blu, with the exception of one excellent rdm (Firi), simply because he had the fastest debuffing fingers in the west. A blu that wants you dead will have you dead, and often, and unlike the one-shot-wonders that rngs turned out to be, well-geared blus have enough MP to bring the magical pain to at least 2-3 opponents before rolling back to let the rest of the team clean up the rest. Prepare to be stunned at all levels, prepare to be jet streamed and death scissored at mid-levels, and prepare to shake hands with the big three at high levels. Don't fear them; respect them.

[Shinsei]

When you BLOCK with ur shield, you can block poison from disservement I do this all the time in both Ballista AND when i used to solo aerns in sea.....whenever u shield block it, u block the poison

I thought this was already common knowledge

[Lucavi]

It is, some people are just weird.