[Yhelothur]

Title says it all really. Hototogisu is an effective offhand until what level? I asked over at alla last night because KI died for me, and I was desperate for an answer, and they ended up telling me that Scorp. Harness is a better melee piece than AF body, and gave me a couple different answers when it came to the Katana. I kinda died inside when I read that, and don't know what to trust from those guys, so I needed to ask it here.

I'll post my setup if anyone needs, but just what katanas can replace Hototogisu? I'm level 61 by the way.


Oh, and I'm a devout AF body user for TP gain. I'm using hoto to make up for a little bit of that lost accuracy, and there is no way that I'm going to tank in Haubergeon just yet, so... Yeah. Don't go there unless you have some REAL information.

[Darkwill]

Yhelothur :
Title says it all really. Hototogisu is an effective offhand until what level? I asked over at alla last night because KI died for me, and I was desperate for an answer, and they ended up telling me that Scorp. Harness is a better melee piece than AF body, and gave me a couple different answers when it came to the Katana. I kinda died inside when I read that, and don't know what to trust from those guys, so I needed to ask it here.

I'll post my setup if anyone needs, but just what katanas can replace Hototogisu? I'm level 61 by the way.


Oh, and I'm a devout AF body user for TP gain. I'm using hoto to make up for a little bit of that lost accuracy, and there is no way that I'm going to tank in Haubergeon just yet, so... Yeah. Don't go there unless you have some REAL information.

Hototogisu is good until Kororito +1 where the damage gap become too high for the low delay of Hoto to overcome.

Real information for Haub tanking:

If you have haste and can land Hojo w/o too much difficulty, you should be fine using Haub for tanking (THF and RNG mobs excluded).

[Yhelothur]

Thank you DW. That was one of the options that lolAlla mentioned, although some of them said Kabutowari+1's were better. /shrug


I'll just wait till Kororito+1's.

[evilpaul]

Kabutowari+1's probably are better, but they're also stupidly expensive for the short time you use them iirc.

[Yhelothur]

Well, the damage per second is .6dmg/second in favor of the Kabutowari +1's, but does that really make up for 3 accuracy? Especially since I'm an avid AF body user. (

[Darkwill]

Yhelothur :
Well, the damage per second is .6dmg/second in favor of the Kabutowari +1's, but does that really make up for 3 accuracy? Especially since I'm an avid AF body user. (

If you use AF, Hototogisu is better than Kabutowari +1. If you use Haub, Kabutowari +1 then becomes better.

[Yhelothur]

Makes sense. Thank you again.

[Amastacia]

I stuck with my Hototo until Kabutowari +1.

I didn't really have any kind of outstanding Haste build at that level, so I decided at the time to swap to a higher-damage kanata to better exploit the hits I did land.

In hindsight would I do it differently? Maybe. I'd keep the Hototo on me and swap to it if I felt it would be better than Kabuto+1 in a given party. Without a BRD around, I don't think I'd use it.

Yeah, Kabutowari +1s are expensive for the amount of time you have them, but these days you can't half-ass NIN at all if you want to effectively tank over "modern" DDs. NIN's not a bad tank by any means, but leveling with other well-geared, merited DDs (which are becoming increasingly common), it has to be at 100% to have a prayer of holding hate (especially since you can't pre-merit katana).

[Yhelothur]

Well, I'm mainhanding a Kabutowari+1 currently, and using the speed of the Hoto to aid in TP gain. Not to mention the accuracy. I'm going to be doing some parsing to test different builds, so I'll figure out what works. I'm not hardly having any accuracy problems, but a parse will really tell me what's going on.

[Biggy]

I kept mine till Kororito +1 too, and i was an avid AF user. The two combined give a good boost in attack speed, and with a Brd it gets even better. You could prob keep it till fudo's @70, but its true that the gap in dmg starts getting annoying around 65

Depends on your playstyle really.

[Tikki]

Amastacia :
Yeah, Kabutowari +1s are expensive for the amount of time you have them, but these days you can't half-ass NIN at all if you want to effectively tank over "modern" DDs.

...

uhm

It's worked for me so far? >_>; Granted, I'm more three quarter assed as opposed to half.

Really, I had no idea I was supposed to suck if I didn't have the +1s! But I don't think I'll rectify that. The sucking part that is.

[pathwriter]

Party with a well-equipped Monk/Warrior, Tikki, and you'll know why Amastacia is saying that.

[Kenja]

I pretty much follow the High dmg mainhand/Low delay offhand katana combo on Nin (currently using Senjuinrikio/Unji until Perdu). I found while I was leveling Nin that my acc would go from great to meh according to my party build so 3 acc would always seem welcome. I'd say stick with your current setup until Kororito.

[Rajah-Phoenix]

I'm also 61, also posted in that same topic, and having the same delima. The 60's offer a fair amount of katana options. I decided on kabutowari/hototogisu till 62, then I'll mainhand the new kogitsunemaru with hototo still offhand. 34 dmg 227 delay with a vermin hp drain effect (nice for crawlers), very strong piece at 62, and lasts a decent 4 level stretch. Traditionally I like having a low delay in offhand to speed up my dot, and hototo seems to be helping tp gain. Even if hototo is a bit low on dmg rating at this level, I don't think kabuto+1 has quite enough oomph to warrant the purchase. At 66 koro+1 x2 are cheap, and add another 4 dmg on top of kabuto+1s. Kitsusuki/hototo looks fun, but impractical concerning jin damage and just general melee swings, especially with the new kogit's availability. When kogit wasn't around, I'd say kit/hoto was best 64-66.

I like my SH because it allows me to ride ni to ni more often, thus I spend a lot less time casting ichi and in the end deal more damage. I generally use my Haub+1 only for jin at this level, as I still find myself holding hate well (enm/eva merits help too). If a DD drops a big ws and grips hate after voke I'll swap to haub, but it's not much of a problem for me.

[Tikki]

pathwriter :
Party with a well-equipped Monk/Warrior, Tikki, and you'll know why Amastacia is saying that.

You say this as if I haven't. :3

Also, hasso freaking loving sams. While they can DIAF, I'm still holding hate off them the vast majority of the time.

[Symbios]

Question has already been pretty thoroughly answered, but I thought I'd just add that I would keep the Hototogisu even after you're done with it- I know a lot of people that toss stuff after they're past the level for it, but Hototogisu is nice if you ever go to 60 cap stuff. Kind of a niche use to some degree, yeah, but cool to have nonetheless IMO.

[Amastacia]

Tikki :

pathwriter :
Party with a well-equipped Monk/Warrior, Tikki, and you'll know why Amastacia is saying that.

You say this as if I haven't. :3

Also, hasso freaking loving sams. While they can DIAF, I'm still holding hate off them the vast majority of the time.

Come play with me sometime.

I don't even use Hasso, except in very rare circumstances (Berserk and meat are more than enough to require 24/7 Seigan). You won't be tanking for long, I guarantee. I could hold back to make it easier for you to hold hate, but then we'd lose the top couple thousand of XP/hr, and I get very bored of grinding, so if it's all the same to you I'd rather get more accomplished in less time, even if it makes tanks emo.

Sucks to say since I love NIN, but I really don't XP with the job at all on my SAM. It's just too much of a crapshoot to get a good one, and a bad one isn't even worth a party slot. SE went so nuts buffing PLD that a mouth-breathing retard can hold hate just long enough (on average) for Third Eye to be enough for survival once I pull hate. NIN tends not to be so lucky unless played really well, and most NINs really aren't that good.

p.s. I'm not trying to imply that +1 katanas are the magical key to NIN godliness. Half-assing or 3/4-assing is sufficient for NQ DDs. Unfortunately for NIN, the 2h update really did no good whatsoever for the job's ability to hold hate off well-geared, merited, and smart 2h DDs. Having any prayer means squeezing the job for all it's worth, and while it may not be fair to expect every NIN to have the gil around for luxury items like Haub +1/Speed Belt/whatever, I don't think more affordable HQ items like katanas are too much to ask for (a 200k premium for a pair of Kabutowari +1s is a lot more reasonable than a 3m premium for a Haub +1, imo).

p.p.s. I'm not a typical DD by any stretch, but I'm not unique either. Well-geared/merited multi-75'ers are becoming increasingly common, even in pickup groups, and it's something to be increasingly concerned about when leveling a tank job.

[Tikki]

Were we same server, I'd be willing to take that challenge. ;3

[pathwriter]

Tikki :

pathwriter :
Party with a well-equipped Monk/Warrior, Tikki, and you'll know why Amastacia is saying that.

You say this as if I haven't. :3

Also, hasso freaking loving sams. While they can DIAF, I'm still holding hate off them the vast majority of the time.

Ok... if I were on Odin and had the time to catch up to your Ninja, I'd introduce you to my suicidal "Hey, lets open the fight with Focus, Berserk, and a Double Attacked Raging Fists/Howling Fist" routine. After 75 levels of Bard, I've gotten really tired of tickling mobs to death and it has made me a real nuisance for Ninjas to try to tank against (not that a stinking one of them uses the elemental wheel and note that I just hit 50). I've taught a few Paladins about a certain level 35 JA of theirs, though, too.

[Tikki]

Well ok. No ninja can hold that, just like noone can hold off the opening 'Hey, let's souldeater/LR a WS right off the bat!' I'm good, but there's freaking limits. ;3



( ps: we usually call that a BAD DD. )




edit: also wtf with no wheel ninjas. Really. I only stopped because it's heavily resisted now. I still keep tools for 'em in stock.