[rambus]

I am one Tier 3 NM away from popping Tinnin (Tier 4 ZNM). If I can pop that and have it killed and the Alka drops, I'll do some testing myself.

Apparently Alka is 5 million on Bismarck, money that can go towards getting my Relic Horn to Stage 3 or partly fund Marduk's Body, so I'm not going to buy it.

Priorities, priorities. ^^;

I already have a Light Grip on me and I can get an Earth Grip. If I can get the Alka Staff and use them with the respective Grips and without, I'll compare them to Apollo's/Terra's.

nerull sold it for 12 mil last night

What I don't get there: How do you get +89 INT for those Puddings? I could never understand that because you cannot directly measure it.

Also, +15.1% successes does not mean the same as +15% Magic Accuracy. It sounds more like +15% chance on landing a spell, like a probability value.

IF THAT IS the case, then Magic Accuracy is a value of probability-- your chance of a resist or success and not a direct value like +15 Magic Accuracy. So you have a +15% increased chance of landing a spell or not with an HQ Staff.

my formulas back trace puddings INT to be 79-80

[Starr]

Also, +15.1% successes does not mean the same as +15% Magic Accuracy. It sounds more like +15% chance on landing a spell, like a probability value.

IF THAT IS the case, then Magic Accuracy is a value of probability-- your chance of a resist or success and not a direct value like +15 Magic Accuracy. So you have a +15% increased chance of landing a spell or not with an HQ Staff.

Accuracy, Magic Accuracy and pDIF have always been a value of probability, having 90% accuracy doesn't mean you constantly hit 9 out of 10 hits.

[Jojax]

Hi, this if my first post on here although I have been reading for a long time. Earlier today we popped and killed Tinnin using my trigger and I was overjoyed to see Alkarulops dropping. Perhaps this reply belongs in the RDM section but this particular thread seems more on topic than the RDM forum one so I'm posting here. I have both BRD75 and RDM75 and am very interested in confirming which I am better off using for my spells, either Alkalurops or NQ/HQ staves. For enfeebles on weaker or EXP type mobs the Alkarulops I'm assuming wins because of the MND boost since enfeebles shouldn't have any trouble landing (296-337 skill available) and MND apparently affects the potency of both slow and paralyze (very apparent on paralyze anyway).

I have tested with nukes already since that is very easy to test and as you would guess HQ staves win, Blizz3 gave +80dmg on Lesser Colibri (although Aquilos has +5 int also), and then Aero3 with Auster's Staff gave +15 dmg over Alkalurops.

After reading the testing with puddings I was quite happy and hoping this new staff isnt just a lolitem that would only get used on weak mobs but actually something that would help my landing spells on sky gods etc. Although as some of you I am not fully convinced by that data alone and would like to test it for myself.

I am just having trouble as to know what to test enfeebles/elegy on since on anything weaker than sky gods/omega I get usually 100% or very near to 100% landing and I have no clue as to how to test the potency of my enfeebles.

My question (finally) is then, can anyone of you suggest a series of tests I could perform at my lvl/skill lvl (enfeeb+16, wind/singing+0) up to 337 enfeebling from equip (up to +56MND sacrificing some enfeebling skill, btw I am Mithra), singing/wind I can't remember exactly but I would mainly perform this on RDM.

Thx for reading.

[Wushutiger]

Here are a few thoughts:
1. 1000 samples isn't nearly enough with FFXI's erratic randomization, at least not to get it to a conclusive percentage, MAYBE to the tens' place.
2. If something is so hard to test to see any difference, why worry about it? If the difference is SO MINUTE as to require excruciatingly extensive testing to determine, then don't worry about it. Use what you have, whatever you want to carry or show off. Nobody is going to be in enough of a position to criticize your choice between two legitimate choices, even though some people will think they are.
3. Personally I find /equip macros useful but kinda dumb when you think about it, so I prefer to limit equipment that needs to constantly be swapped in and out. Also, 8 HQ staves are murder on your inventory space and your wallet. Furthermore, the MAcc, INT, and MND will assist your magic casting and/or defense. I'd find the Alkalurops a better all-around choice.

[Jojax]

Wanted to test it to see which would be better in those occasions where I have trouble landing spells, such as sky gods, where a small difference can help a lot since I seem to be right on the edge. That said I think I will just use it fulltime for my enfeebles from now on and if I see something drastically wrong on any big fights I'll switch back.

[Nikeah]

Okay before I begin I openly admit I am not expert in magic testing or the like, in fact my highest mage type job is bard or summoner at 38 both so please no ZOMG stfu you know nothing about this game. But for those interested in doing valid testing especially when it comes to enfeebs and landing songs would it not simply be easiest to test this on a goldfish in sea. You could use the same fish for every single cast. Now I know this will be painful and boring and while I am on edge to see a result to this as an up and coming brd (yes I am taking it to 75) because I would like to know whether or not Alkalurops really is the end all staff for landing elegy/lullaby.

[Wrish]

I thought they were pretty clear that Alkalurops is NOT the end-all-be-all staff for Bard, specifically because it fails to reach the overall accuracy of Apollo's and Terra's staves on your most important enfeebling songs. Unlike with Red mages, potency is not a mitigating consideration for a Bard.

Though you just necro-posted, I notice that no one in this thread linked to that mother lode of elemental testing from 2007, and here it is:

http://lodeguy.blog69.fc2.com/blog-category-17.html

Basically the results of thousands of trials of staff testing strongly indicated that HQ staves give +30 magical accuracy, and NQ staves give +20 magical accuracy. Below 50% landing rate, it took 1 magical accuracy point to increase landing rate by 1%, and above that 50% rate, it took 2 magical accuracy points (giving rise to the common misconception that HQ staves simply increase landing rate by 15%; they do more than that if your accuracy starts below 50%).

This guy also found out that 1 elemental skill equated to +1 magical accuracy, and that for up to a +10 delta-INT in your favor, 1 INT affects elemental resists by 1%, while past that, 1 INT has half the effect. All the INT testing was done above 50% landing rate.

Specific to this test was the method of gauging landing rate. Only a spell that produced full damage was counted, though the half-, quarter-, and "full" resists were all tabulated for anyone curious. This method of counting resists seems to have produced results that comport with findings on other spell types for which resistance is counted as an all-or-none event.

Carrying this to Bard, one of course has to doubt foremost that 1 singing or instrument skill = 1 magical accuracy, and secondly it remains speculative that CHR would show the same resist versus stat correlation as INT. If the latter were presumed to be true, then Alkalurops would catch up to HQ staves only if your final CHR advantage over the mob does not exceed 10. For high-CHR cases, Alkalurops would trail HQ staves by 5 magical accuracy (6 if you count the CHR bonus from Apollo's).

[octoberasian]

Since you mentioned CHR, what do you think is the appropriate amount to have to make Alkalurops effective to use?

I've been seeing a lot of BRDs on my server and on BlueGartr's Complete Relic/Mythic weapons thread using that staff over Elemental Staves combined with Gjallarhorn. So, it makes me wonder-- Should I get one myself?

I've read somewhere that the cutoff on CHR before it becomes the "point of diminishing returns" is 120 total. I sit anywhere between 130 to 140-ish CHR with my current gear.

So let's say...

120 and lower CHR -> Alkalurops?
121 and higher CHR -> Elemental staves HQ?

[Kaparu]

There's no testing to suggest there even is a point where Alkalurops becomes superior to Apollo's Staff, due to the massive difference in the mechanics of songs and other types of magic. Stick with the latter until that changes.

[octoberasian]

Thus... why are Bards with Gjallarhorn lately using Alkalurops? (Not all Bards with Relic Horn, but most of them recently.)

It's making me curious though, and I'm so traditional that I still use Terra's and Apollo's, but anything to save space would be nice.

[Kaparu]

Because relic-holders are just as inclined - if not more so - to being idiots as the rest of the playerbase. Alkalurops is expensive and shiny, and subsequently, desirable.

[pathwriter]

Never ever use someone with a relic weapon as a model for success simply because they have a relic weapon. For every person with a relic weapon, only about one in ten is actually any good at the job. Think about it, you get a relic weapon by one of three methods: being very successful at making money (a good economist), being very successful as a Dynamis shellholder (a good leader), or being very successful at getting a Dynamis leader to sponsor you (a good whore). None of these three translate to being a good Bard or Samurai or whatever.

[Tarusofo]

Because relic-holders are just as inclined - if not more so - to being idiots as the rest of the playerbase. Alkalurops is expensive and shiny, and subsequently, desirable.

You forgot to add that a good chunk of Gjallarhorn owners are nothing more than balladwhores or alt accounts from players who quit the LS and care little to nothing for their job.

[octoberasian]

Never ever use someone with a relic weapon as a model for success simply because they have a relic weapon. For every person with a relic weapon, only about one in ten is actually any good at the job. Think about it, you get a relic weapon by one of three methods: being very successful at making money (a good economist), being very successful as a Dynamis shellholder (a good leader), or being very successful at getting a Dynamis leader to sponsor you (a good whore). None of these three translate to being a good Bard or Samurai or whatever.

You forgot to add that a good chunk of Gjallarhorn owners are nothing more than balladwhores or alt accounts from players who quit the LS and care little to nothing for their job.

@Path:

I don't fall in either category:
- "good economist" - I'm living off an average of 200k to 400k Gil right now. Last KS30, BC40/BC60, and ENM gave me nothing more than 30k total each. And, seeing I'm upgrading Marduk's body, I can't sell the Khroma Ores I get from ISNM.

- "good leader" - Not leading any Dynamis shell, thank god. I'm already a sackholder in my LS, so I don't want to add more responsibilities than I can handle. XD

- "good whore" - Ugh, I've seen enough of those types in previous LSes that make me want to bitch slap them-- literally.

I've been literally self-funding my Horn for the last 3 years, and still haven't reached Stage 3 yet. I'm closer now thanks to a better LS, and they'll let me sponsor Dynamis runs once I get Stage 3.

@'Sofo:

Pretty sad but true. Majority of the Gjallarhorn users I see on Bismarck are pretty mediocre. Only a few, very few are very well geared. Though, those that are very good at it made me wonder they're using Alkalurops.

So, I've seen maybe two or three so far with Alkalurops so it made curious, "Why?" Thus, why I ask here about it.

The worst equipped Gjallarhorn I've seen on Bismarck is 75 with Bird's Whistle (CHR+3), Lv 50 Assault earring for MP, and Corsette NQ. Yes, I'm not kidding. Made me wish I could rip the Horn off him since I can put it to better use. ;

Made me scream bought account/bought Gil when I saw that Bard.

[pathwriter]

I've been literally self-funding my Horn for the last 3 years, and still haven't reached Stage 3 yet.

Aselin, I do try to work with kid gloves around you, but you make it so hard. If you've literally been working on a relic weapon for that long and have not even cracked stage 3, you're not working on a relic weapon. You're occasionally throwing money away. Also, why are you doing any KS30 other than Royale Ramble? The drops from KS30 barring Rare/Ex weapons are largely vendor trash these days.

[octoberasian]

I can't find a group willing to do Royale Ramble on Bismarck, even with random setups. It's either ODS or Copy Cat majority of the time. So, I'm going to try to save up for KS99 again and hopefully get lucky with a Speed Belt in Early Bird Gets the Wyrm.

Also, I'm the kind of person that doesn't like to give up so easily. If I put all my work and effort into something, I'll literally try to finish it regardless how long it'll take.

[Antithesis]

I can't find a group willing to do Royale Ramble on Bismarck, even with random setups. It's either ODS or Copy Cat majority of the time. So, I'm going to try to save up for KS99 again and hopefully get lucky with a Speed Belt in Early Bird Gets the Wyrm.

Also, I'm the kind of person that doesn't like to give up so easily. If I put all my work and effort into something, I'll literally try to finish it regardless how long it'll take.

Just shout. Royale Ramble is by far the most consistent KSNM in terms of money. Assembling a party for it is not that difficult.

I remember when I wanted a Gjallarhorn. Then I said fuck it.

[pathwriter]

I remember when I wanted a Gjallarhorn. Then I remembered that I like playing other jobs from time to time, too.

Fixed that. Aegis, Amanomurakumo, Apocalypse... they can all get a pass in terms of someone coming on their White Mage. A Bard with Gjallarhorn automatically loses the ability to change his main job.

[Tarusofo]

Fixed that. Aegis, Amanomurakumo, Apocalypse... they can all get a pass in terms of someone coming on their White Mage. A Bard with Gjallarhorn automatically loses the ability to change his main job.

Eh, our Gjallarhorn bard funded it all himself prior to joining the LS and even though he comes to most events as BRD (on his own, not being told what to to come as) he still gets lots of uses of his other jobs (BLM and WHM). I guess had we sponsored it, he would be bound to come as Bard, even if it was more of a courtesy from him than for practical issues.

[Antithesis]

Gjallahorn should have been All Songs (Except Ballad) +3 Ballad +2.