[Aweschitt]

Anyone played with this thing (Organics) as an offhand weapon for war? If so is it viable for real use? The numbers on it make it look like it should be an excellent offhand weapon with a maneater main.

I'm in Iraq right now, and the net sucks hard here, so navigating forums is crazy time consuming. If anyone could hook me up with some data or some links it would be greatly appreciated. Been out of the loop for 12 months and will be back home in 2 months, so I'm tryin to get data on new gear before I get to playin again

[Blackmoon]

Long time Awe, how are things in the sand box.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Organics

Organics Rare
(Sword) All Races
DMG: 48 Delay: 264 HP -55 STR +3
Attack +10 Critical Hit Rate +3%
Lv. 75 WAR / PLD / DRK

Damage Per Second: 10.90
TP Per Hit: 6.8%

Dropped from Achamoth (NM) in Mount Zhayolm

[ohhai2u]

I think it would be important to point out that it is a tier 3 ZNM. Also, gaxe wru D:.

[Aweschitt]

ohhai2u :
I think it would be important to point out that it is a tier 3 ZNM. Also, gaxe wru D:.

Yeah the whole Gaxe change stuff and everything... like I said, I've been in Iraq for 12 months lol and haven't been playing, so I feel like a newb again with all the new shyte thats come out and changed. I don't have great access to forums here to keep up with everything because the net is hard to get to for personal use where I am... and I'm kinda busy playing the grown up version of whack a mole with the Iraqis....

LUNA! whats up bro? lol the sand box sucks as always haha. I found the clopedia link already but i was askin to see if anyone had done any parsing with it. Seems like it would make a good offhand weapon for dual weilding, but I also use suppa and 8/8 sword merits. idk if that still puts the sword too low in dps to be worth a damn... But im retarded when it comes to all the damage calculations.

I did log in when I was home on leave and did a couple burn partys last month, and all the WARs I partied with were still dual weilding... so idk about all that gaxe mess just yet. Maybe for gods and hnms. Does Gaxe do more than 4-11 dmg per swing on Kirin now? lolololol

[Blackmoon]

GAxe seems to hit better, but kirin is kirin, even though I have not played since the end of april.

It would appear to look good, but there is not much out on forums or anywhere else about parses.

Yeah, I was in the box 03-04, cushy gigs for the most part, being a specialty chem decon unit.

[Aweschitt]

lol good old OIF1 haha. Yeah I was here then too, 3 months before the war kicked off. Did the whole long fun push to BIAP, no cush gig for me tho lol, had front row seats for all the nasties... ah good times.

Well, if you know of any good links to data on the changes that mostly affected WAR MNK or RNG, I could use em. I know about most of the changes from the POL site etc, but those dont ever really tell ya shit. Takes me like 20 min just to navigate thru to this part of KI to post lol. You'd be saving me alot of pain and I'll owe ya a beer when I get home

[trendy.ideology]

Meh.

Gaxe is cute if you don't need a reliable first voke in the party.

Personally, I like still being war/nin and first voking everything and not being gimped by /nin.

If you're GAXE'ing as WAR you need to be /SAM not /NIN. Mmmmkay? I'd be genuinely impressed (And start QQ'ing about OP 2hand) if GAXE outparsed maneater/juggernaut with WAR/NIN GAXE. Which is something I've yet to personally experience in a pickup merit party, and I'm sure their gear would outshine mine if they were outparsing me with a gaxe, /nin. Reason being, I usually outparse gaxe wars /nin by around 10% if I'm trying, or if their gear sucks. More, if it's both.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hasso

This is the entire reason you even use a 2handed weapon on WAR.


Anyway, I digress. I'm sure the 2handed update police will be along shortly to explain how a GAXE WAR/NIN can first voke and still contribute just as much as I would to the party.

[Elswood]

Hasso sucks. Seigan wins... but /nin ga will still easily beat a dual wielder assuming they aren't retarded.

[Aweschitt]

(keep in mind it’s been 12 months since I've actively played and haven't seen any real info on much of the changes, so I may be talking out my ass. If so, please enlighten me)

I see, and yes the 2 handed weapon static increases of the last few updates plus hasso could make a war with a Gaxe much more effective in specific situations like say.... Genbu and Adamantoise.... Unless SE started making HNMS more vulnerable to darkness or zerg tactics... I haven't seen too many places in ff where a gaxe in itself was a very useful tool mostly because of the SC options and previously the lower damage.

/sam gaxe doesnt sound terribly useful for burn party’s (actually it sounds impossible to pull off a war/sam burn on the level or a war/nin burn) or any of the other things war tends to fill the niche for... like backup vokes in dynamis or any other place in game where dealing with multiple mobs. Cause in my mind, that’s kind of the point of war/nin.... stupid high damage with more than enough damage mitigation to survive your pulled hate, and not become a mana sponge ultimately forcing your group to rest out of sync.

This seems to me like a case of MO POWA not necessarily being an useful tool unless you intend to zerg something and have a main tank with a significant hate build on the intended target. Almost seems to me like the 2 handed weapon and /sam was much more intended for use by drk.

I find it a little difficult to believe war/nin with gaxe outdamages dual wield, assuming somones not using crap axes and dual weild suporting gear. Help me out here, am I way off? Have the mechanics of FF changed that greatly?

[trendy.ideology]

Elswood :
Hasso sucks. Seigan wins... but /nin ga will still easily beat a dual wielder assuming they aren't retarded.

You're fucking retarded.


Transfer here, gear up a WAR/NIN with GAXE and identical gear to mine and outparse me... Or shut the motherfuck up and stay the fuck on [Redacted. Insert sexually discriminatory insult here since I can't make disparaging remarks that can be taken as an attack on someone's sexual orientation regardless of context]marck.





Edited so I don't get modded again. :koki

[Kaparu]

Hasso really doesn't suck, its just extremely situational, and not as useful as Seigen most of the time.

That said, aside from the exaggeration of calling it "easy", he's not really wrong.

[trendy.ideology]

I'll believe it when I see it.

I first voke, main tank, cycle shadows, and take a huge DPS hit as a result, and still blow every gaxe war/nin I've partied with out of the water.


Everything "can" outparse everything.

If you're going to call every GAXE WAR/NIN who doesn't have Perdu vogue, haidate, hauby+1, fire bomblet, toreador's ring, dusk gloves +1, and speed belt, etc "retarded", then yea, that guy with all those items can prolly outparse my WAR.

Identical gear? I just don't see how that' possible. Assuming normal gear setups on both, you've got suppa @5% delay redux which is superior to the +2% DA you can get on a grip, and 15% dual wield delay redux which is vastly superior to the non-existent boost GAXE gets from nin sub...


When you boil it down, unless you build TP at an identical rate to axe/axe with gaxe, which you don't.... you'd need to WS so much higher then the axe/axe WAR that your overall DPS jumped over 15%


Like, it just doesn't add up dude.


Zanshin, StoreTPII, and Hasso, allow GAXE to outparse axe/axe.


I fail to see how gaxe will outparse axe/axe without /sam.

[Aweschitt]

Very interesting. Now we're getting somewhere, please continue.

Anyone have anything on the gaxe side of the house that can really compete with the above dual wield statements besides "gaxe pwns ur face cuz i sez so"?....

[trendy.ideology]

GAXE comes with a .75 or something :1 acc:dex ratio v.s. the normal 1:2 acc:dex ration.

Meaning for dual wield you get 1acc for every 2dex.

GAXE gets like 1.5 acc for every 2 dex, /2 .75:1 ratio...

might be .8 or .85 or something.

WAS 1:1 when they first did the update and then they nerfed it. It needed nerfing. SAM was broke for a while.




Yea, there we go.

Dexterity also has a direct impact on a character's accuracy stat. For every two points of DEX a character has, his/her accuracy is raised by one point. However, when using a Two-Handed Weapon, for every 4 points of DEX, your accuracy value is raised by 3. (as of the November '07 Update).

The following adjustments have been made to two-handed weapons:

- Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributes, and will also inflict more damage when facing higher-level opponents or enemies with high defense.

[Aweschitt]

Yeah I did see the new data when they made the intial change and then nerfed it because it was rediculously overpowered. But seeing numbers like that dont mean much to me. When you get down to all the intricate factors involved in calculating total damage, between gear choices, mob weaknesses to certain weapons, delay redux, weapon skill caps, merits, blah blah.

What I'm looking for is someone to honestly justify that (mostly in the case of war/nin) that greataxe is better. That on the same toon with a build for greataxe im going to get a better, worth my time, result. Yes the new numbers make Greataxe look really shiney, but is it really better? (other than the situational events that it would particularly eclipse axes like /sam against genbu).

The only answer I've heard from anyone I have asked basically boils down to them saying, "Sombody said it's better, and my WS are higher, so it must be true".

Btw I thank you for taking the time to entertain my newly found newbness after a long break from game

[Kaparu]

I first voke, main tank, cycle shadows, and take a huge DPS hit as a result, and still blow every gaxe war/nin I've partied with out of the water.

And yet, people do this with Seigen on a regular basis.

The whole, "I've never had anyone out-parse me doing X" has never, under any circumstances been an accurate measure of how effective something is. The majority of winning a parse lies exclusively in how attentive you are, and how quickly you get to the next target. You want to see how well something compares? Compare it yourself. You may have identical equipment to the guy next to you(which, in regards to the topic at hand, would be retarded), but you're not the same player. I've told you this on numerous occasions.

As to the person inquiring as to why Great Axe is actually optimal, it basically boils down to:

-Raging Rush is a better weapon skill than Rampage

-Higher pDIF

-Higher Accuracy

[Aweschitt]

Normally I do test everything on my own.... however I'm still in Iraq and unable to play to do so and will be for 2 more months. So I'm seeking the word of the people, power to the people and all that... lol

Also I don't wanna waste a bunch of time and gil to find out it's not better or marginally better and not worth the hassel. What happened to all the asurans who used to test every little thing down to its atomic weight?

[Kaparu]

What exactly are you insisting we do?

[trendy.ideology]

RR only has a 5% higher STR mod than rampage.

I don't know where you get your "facts" about accuracy seeing as the only thing that would grant it higher accuracy according to wiki is the 2hand dex update.

I don't know who these seigan tanks are, but I sure as fuck haven't seen it personally.

I have however seen countless people in countless situations utsu tank.




You're working with the same thing I am; Observations.

The one difference is, I actually play dual wielding war/nin, while all you've done is observe the two sides of the coin.

[Aweschitt]

lol nothing but what youve been doing, argue about it haha. I've already gotten some info out of it. I don't disagree that /sam would produce much more overall damage. But does seigen really make up for utsu?

You gotta understand, Im trying to piece the mechanics of these changes together in my head based off what youre saying, the fact number changes from clopedia etc, and my knowledge of war from a year ago. You're the first person to really say more than "greataxe rocks" and bang yer head like Bevis and Butthead about it.

The update has been out for quite some time... guess I'm just oldschool with FF where every single little tiny change was followed by message boards flooded with data, and questions, and arguing over the validity of the new change being better or worse. Seems like these rather large changes that have effected many jobs have been met with the sounds of crickets chirping. Apparently much more has changed in FF than I expected lol.