[Hyriu]

fuck yea

[cyraxSan]

"NINJAS REJOICE AT YOUR NEW SPELLS.

The follow spells have been added:

Dokumori: Ni
Dokumori: San"

amirite

April fool late ?

[evilpaul]

derp...

nice...


oh would you look at that, itd take me 18 merits to do what a scholar takes 3 for. and i cant even cap all of them.


/fume

i swear i'd use some of them if it were even remotely feasable to merit them. any of them. seriously.

or perhaps something useful.. like utsusemi san. can we get some reps in here to tell me how exactly im supposed to play ninja? am i supposed to not be able to use every spell to their full potential as these merits say (unlike scholar)? because the mystic's macc+10 sure says otherwise -.-

Helix merits seem less awesome if you actually know what helices do.

[Tikki]

do you even know or realise how useless that merit is for SCH? the helix line of spells can not and should not be used on anything in endgame ( cerb/ timat/ wyverns, sky gods, etc) the base damage of those spells are so horrid they get zeroed or near zeroed out for damage quite easily on anything with high INT(even imps it takes a lot of effort to brake 50 damage on them). these merits does not fix that at all

Well gee Rambus, in the smn forums you were going in about how sch are so much better at dealing damage than blm but now you're saying sch can't get the int to even make a helix spell work? Make up your mind or put down the crack pipe. I mean, you were good for so long but now you're getting back to your old 'tarded ways.

[evilpaul]

Helices have the same damage equation as either Aero or Thunder (I forget which). That makes them great for soloing and weaker mobs at 75, but shit for mobs with 120 or 150 INT. You can also only have 1 helix on a mob at a time, so if you have 3 Scholars chilling in your HNM hizzy only 1 can use helices at a time. With Stormsurge giving INT+7, you only want to use Cryohelix ideally if you have that merited and the mob won't resist it.

This is why the OP, and anyone else bitching about SCH merits, is a fucktard.

[Amastacia]

The point isn't that Helix merits are omgwtfbbqossum.

The point is that one merit enhances all of them.

I find it difficult to refute the notion that it's even more fucktarded that we have equally useless spells, but get to merit them all separately.

Not that SE would have given us anything useful instead, but maybe we'd be able to look at our job merits without a profound sense of disappointment that the sum total is Subtle Blow, Sange, Nin. Tool Exp., and a fuckpile of useless nuke shit.

[evilpaul]

BLM and RDM get the same thing in group 1. SE seems to have changed what they see as appropriate for job specific merits over time.

And yes, NIN merits suck in general. Something that helps tank or DD would have been nice.

[Nattack]

Helix merits seem less awesome if you actually know what helices do.

I know what helixes do, and can you honestly say that San spells are any better?

[JackalTheManCat]

I know what helixes do, and can you honestly say that San spells are any better?

WOOOOOOOOOOOSH

learn to reading comprehension

[Nattack]

I like it when people call a woosh but fail to explain what the person in question wooshed to.

To my understanding we were talking about the effectiveness of merits. nobody uses San wheel because it takes so many points to acquire. and the fact that it just takes so much inventory space just to use, but at the same time, to boost it you have to boost each one individually. An exceedingly large amount of time for a minimal effect. its just not feasable. We werent talking about the effectiveness of Helix spells, which do actually see some use in the Scholar agenda. not as much as cure, and Tier 4 nukes. but they get used at least sometimes as opposed to never.

Let's not degenerate this into snarky comments of eachother, I didn't even say that the helix spells were awesome, I just said that they were a hell of a lot more sane to stick points into than any of the ninja merits.


this is essentially the long form of saying "I know what helixes do, and their effectiveness, but san spells are a lose lose situation to anyone who uses them"

or "i know what helixes do, but can you honestly say that san spells are any better"

[Nattack]

Helices have the same damage equation as either Aero or Thunder (I forget which). That makes them great for soloing and weaker mobs at 75, but shit for mobs with 120 or 150 INT. You can also only have 1 helix on a mob at a time, so if you have 3 Scholars chilling in your HNM hizzy only 1 can use helices at a time. With Stormsurge giving INT+7, you only want to use Cryohelix ideally if you have that merited and the mob won't resist it.

This is why the OP, and anyone else bitching about SCH merits, is a fucktard.

my my you're a character with animosity. But let me notify you of something, people actually use helix spells. as you said, they use cryohelix. nobody uses san spells

Do helix spells get stronger if you cast them in a wheel?

not really, they cancel themselves out. in fact, according to this, scholar is the class that least needs a merit that gives all these spells a boost because all they use is a single spell.

so why do they have a merit that gives all those spells a boost if its going to waste? ninja needs it because of the wheel. we're already severely hindered by the fact that everyone does something better than us, and can even become us if they sub us.
the san spells themselves need to be revamped to become useful.

I'll be honest, I only brought SCH into this because it was a comparison of how ninja spell merits should be, one merit. boost everything. I dont give two shits about a job that cant cast haste on me in a meripo.

[Banggugyangu]

derp...

nice...


oh would you look at that, itd take me 18 merits to do what a scholar takes 3 for. and i cant even cap all of them.


/fume

i swear i'd use some of them if it were even remotely feasable to merit them. any of them. seriously.

or perhaps something useful.. like utsusemi san. can we get some reps in here to tell me how exactly im supposed to play ninja? am i supposed to not be able to use every spell to their full potential as these merits say (unlike scholar)? because the mystic's macc+10 sure says otherwise -.-

Didn't read the whole thread and it's not important cuz I'm not really adding any insight. I'm a SCH, and I <3s my merits, but I sympathize for you guys. NIN merits really do indeed suck ballsack. If it makes you feel any better, our tier 2 merits are pretty lawl except stormsurge. But yeah, I would agree that the merit nukes for you guys should definitely be a single merit for all 8 spells. That would really be nice IMO

[Kandi_]

ill agree that the merit options suck, ive always thought that way about NIN.

but as for much earlier comments on PLD vs NIN

not saying u guys are wrong, but my LSs end up using NINs over PLDs, not because they think PLDs suck, but just because our NINs rly are good, and our PLDs are just average. Also, PLD and NINs used to tank back before the PLD updates, and ppl liked NIN most, and PLD sometimes, and if PLD was good enough back then to tank, then NINs are still "good enough" to tank now. but...
the real problem comes to what an LS wants.

"hmm guys should we get the PLD or NIN?"

w/o ruining Lv1-75 EXPing, the only answer i could come up with (w/o the DD option yet) would be 1 JA or Ninjutsu, which adds decent hate, but its primary effect, is simply magic dmg reduction, similar cast/recast as utsu:ichi maybe? nothing too huge, but a step. Lv70+ JA or spell. also maybe the magic dmg reduction is based on Ninjutsu skill + INT when spell is casted. (im sure some wont like that idea)

heck, a small fix (still limited to MP) to NIN would be an update to DRK lol. give DRKs Blind, theres no real reason not to.

[Konda]

could be good if it's like 10 a tick on San level, then can just DoT kite solo stuff

[Tobiwan]

This may have been said already, but before we go hating on nin lets not forget utsusemi changed this game forever and that all started with nin.Without utsusemi ppl would still be blood tanking.The only thing that sux about it is that ppl can sub nin and basically get the same benefits.SE shoulda made Ni lvl 36 >.>

[Tobiwan]

double post 38* ^^