[Akashi@Caitsith]

I used variability in the description to make this sound smarter, by the way. Anyways, I'm working towards getting Mordant atm (170something/250) just because I want it, but then I started to think carefully on this:

"Could Mordant be better than Evisceration?"

Now if you guys don't know, Evisceration is actually a very significant WS for THIEF. Their ability to knock their DEX past 120 (inc base) allows Evis to do extraordinary damage due to its many crits.

That is not the case for Bard. :/

Although we share identical WS gear with THF, we have all odds against us in utilizing Evis to its maximum potential. Lower DEX and skill rate results in less crits/hits overall, and our Evis only shines when the mob is DC-Ts (depending on gear). The normal career Bard would never invest his or her gil into a decent DD set-up anyways, so the only people who have relatively good gear (read: me) have some other DD job leveled.

Pros of Evisceration:

• It's a big multi-hit, therefore it has a chance of doing tons of damage.
• It has a high chance of crit'ing on lower level mobs, which is usually the only thing a Bard would be meleeing.
• It closes Darkness and also open/closes a lot of different Skillchains that're USEFUL in a duo/trio situation.
• It's relatively easy to get.

Cons of Evisceration:

• On higher level mobs the damage will start to go everywhere.
• Higher chance of Evis completely wiffing due to lower skill than other melee at 75 (Dagger caps @240, B-)
• Like above, 5hit WS with a shitty melee job = yuck.

----
With that said, let's look at Mordant Rime:

# Skill level: N/A
# Description: Delivers a twofold attack that gravities target. Chance of gravitying target varies with TP. Carnwenhan: Aftermath effect varies with TP.

Modifiers: DEX:30% ; CHR:50%

Oh wow, SE did something right for once! CHR modifiers on MY bard WS?! Blasphemy. Although sadly, unless we find out that stacking CHR would be more beneficial damage-wise than stacking DEX/STR, there's hardly any spots left for CHR gear. After including Heca gear, Pixie Earring, Brutal/Rajas/Thunder/Warwolf... you're left with Jester's cape+1, and even then we're not sure if Forager's/Amemet+1 would be better. But I digress, maybe a full CHR build would benefit us more, only tests can tell.


Pros of Mordant

• Two-hit WS! Which makes it a lot more friendly for high level baddies.
• CHR modifier may/may not increase overall damage, so speculation is needed.
• I guess you can add in the Gravity effect, although shit is situational.
• Easy to unload all DEX/CHR gear when you're only focusing on landing two hits.

Cons of Mordant

• Relatively hard to get.
• It could be a shitastic WS...I'll update OP once I get more information on it.
• Can't close Darkness :/

I can't really put many cons for Mordant because we don't know much about it... so I put the obvious ones. Anyways, this is the thread to discuss both and whether or not it's worth obtaining Mordant. If anyone gathers information about it then I'll update the OP. Have at it (which I hardly expect many responses, but felt like it's my duty as one of the more knowledgeable bards to post this lulz).

[Antithesis]

I am not even close to obtaining the Runic Key but I already know getting Mordant Rime is my biggest priority once I do along with Trueflight.

I'm a huge fan of Melee Bard in all respects just because we can put out reasonable numbers on certain monsters. Comparing Mordant Rime to Evisceration at the moment to me is nothing more than a moot point for me. I am so positive that Mordant Rime will be so much more beneficial for most if not all situations than Evisceration.

Just the fact alone that its a sort of "endgame" ws alone already tells me it can put out decent damage on its own without stacking anything. Since it is a Two-hit WS it of course has a higher chance of doing the the best amount of damage on a monster with higher stats than Evisceration.

This leads me to wonder if Sneak Attack would benefit Mordant Rime in anyway. Shark Bite is a very similar WS in terms of execution to Mordant Rime. Of course THF gets the benefit of increased damage from Sneak Attack and Trick Attack modifiers while we would only get the Critical hit benefit.

Either way I see Mordant Rime as having potential to help our damage. With merits and gear a Bard can pump out some really nice damage.


Akashi btw since when do THFs use Evisceration alot? If I recall Dancing Edge and Shark Bite take a shit on Evisceration. Really from what I know Evisceration was a WS made to give those jobs without access to DE and SB a decent Dagger WS but not make it more powerful than those two WS.

[Kaparu]

Evisceration is pretty excellent for Thieves, actually.

And, not that this even remotely speaks for the majority of the playerbase, but if you own an X's Knife, its not even worth discussing. That weapon does ridiculous things to anything that can crit.

Speaking of which.. Take fucking BST off X's, and add Bard.. (And RDM!)

[Elswood]

I think it'd be hard, given the situation, for Mordant Rime to consistently be a better weapon skill than Evisceration. 5 hits AND a crit mod is just that good. Sure, higher level stuff you'll probably miss a few, but that's what sushi is for I guess.

It looks interesting, to say the least, but it'll be a while before I get to be able to use any of the WS :/

As for THF using Evisceration, like said in the op, stacked with massive dex it can be ridiculously awesome. Most thf, however (at least I'd say on this server) do not have the crazy good WS gear (aka full heca, whatever). Dancing Edge is just more reliable for regular situations, while Evisceration can pump out high numbers with a high crit rate. Also, having X's knife is probably the most influential thing to have for the dex/crit build on it, which is hard to get for most.

[Antithesis]

I think I'd fap for 2 hours if X's knife was available for Bard. If anything im wondering if Carnwhenhan would make a good offhand since its basically a Joytoy in some respects.

[Antithesis]

I think it'd be hard, given the situation, for Mordant Rime to consistently be a better weapon skill than Evisceration. 5 hits AND a crit mod is just that good. Sure, higher level stuff you'll probably miss a few, but that's what sushi is for I guess.

It looks interesting, to say the least, but it'll be a while before I get to be able to use any of the WS :/

As for THF using Evisceration, like said in the op, stacked with massive dex it can be ridiculously awesome. Most thf, however (at least I'd say on this server) do not have the crazy good WS gear (aka full heca, whatever). Dancing Edge is just more reliable for regular situations, while Evisceration can pump out high numbers with a high crit rate. Also, having X's knife is probably the most influential thing to have for the dex/crit build on it, which is hard to get for most.

Evisceration is probably a nice WS for THFs but it isnt the same for BRDs. Like Akashi said we need more testing to see how exactly Mordant Rime will do against Evisceration.

Akashiiiii hurry up and get Mordant Rime so we can see some test results ; ;

[Kaparu]

Not in the offhand its not. All manner of relic weapons(ToAU or Zilart) became garbage in your offhand during one of the more recent updates. Sure, Zilart relics still have excellent DPS, but stripped of their effects, they're not worth fawning over.

Square takes a shit on dual-wielders once again.

[Antithesis]

Kap one question. If your fighting a higher lvl enemy would it be worth it to swap in another Dagger in the offhand slot rather than Joytoy?

Seeing as how our Sword skill is a C- and all.

[Kaparu]

Absolutely. Even with some sort of sushi, your accuracy is going to be pretty lackluster with a Joyeuse. If you're hitting things with it, use it, if not, find something else.

[Antithesis]

So then its safe to say any of these combinations are working ones (From best to worst:)

Main Hand

Mandau
Blau Dolch
Carnwhenhan
Jambiya
Heart Snatcher
Behemoth Knife (+1)

Off hand

Joyeuse
Jambiya
Heart Snatcher
Behemoth Knife (+1)
(M Kirs?)


Im not totaly sure here but this is what I see from Best to worst. I currently do Jambiya / Behemoth

[Akashi@Caitsith]

To answer your question Anti, Evisceration becomes the ideal WS for Thief because it emphasizes on everything a thief aims for (during a WS): Critical hits and DEX for mods. IF USED PROPERLY Evisceration becomes the best WS a THF can use on HNMs. Merits? I think Dancing Edge still holds out as the victor, but I'm not really into Thief so I'm not quite sure to be honest. And when the bottom floor of my house finally dries (fucking 1inch of water due to hurricane ike) I'll do some testing. My WS gear is this:

Main: Blau
Sub: whatever
Head: Heca
Neck: Love Torque
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Delta earring
Body: Heca
Hands: Heca
Ring1: Thunder
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Ame+1 (swap to Jester's+1 during testing)
Waist: Warwolf
Legs: Byakko's
Feet: Heca

So yeah, I have pretty ideal gear except I'm missing nlegs. Hopefully I'll get to test some stuff on lv1 rabbits to see how CHR effects damage, then work on fighting some Ts-VTs with my monk friend and get some overall results on damage output.

P.S: I also have 5dagger merits, dunno if that'll effect the results or not.

[Antithesis]

Jesus Akashi your LS was nice enough to give you a Love Torque? I wanna join ;_;

[Kaparu]

Mandau is obviously a no-brainer. Practically speaking, your main-hand isn't going to get any better than Blau Dolch. Not only is the weapon just pure awesome in itself, but the Acc/Attk seals the deal. Beyond that, if you can hit things at a reasonable rate(85%+) with it, use a Joyeuse. If that's not the case, some sort of HQ Jamby would probably yield the best results(note, if you actually managed to get an HQ version, it would go in the main, with Blau in the off).

I'll hold my comments about the Balrahn weapon until we see how potent the DA and aftermath are. In all likelyhood, it'll just end up being the next best main-hand after Mandau.

[Antithesis]

Mandau is obviously a no-brainer. Practically speaking, your main-hand isn't going to get any better than Blau Dolch. Not only is the weapon just pure awesome in itself, but the Acc/Attk seals the deal. Beyond that, if you can hit things at a reasonable rate(85%+) with it, use a Joyeuse. If that's not the case, some sort of HQ Jamby would probably yield the best results(note, if you actually managed to get an HQ version, it would go in the main, with Blau in the off).

I'll hold my comments about the Balrahn weapon until we see how potent the DA and aftermath are. In all likelyhood, it'll just end up being the next best main-hand after Mandau.

Wont 29 Dmg hurt us in the long run?

[Kaparu]

I'll hold my comments about the Balrahn weapon until we see how potent the DA and aftermath are. In all likelyhood, it'll just end up being the next best main-hand after Mandau.

I don't know

[Antithesis]

All righty sorry then

[Kaparu]

Btw, I'm bored, and don't have class tomorrow ~

lets do something!

[Antithesis]

I have class till 9:50 tommorow. If you ride the bus quickly we could go eat lunch lol.

And look what youve done we've derailed the whole thread XD. No more derailing.

[Kaparu]

Meh, we're still waiting on someone to post WS results. Nothing relevant can really be said until that point.

Probably a stupid question, but are we talking about 9:50am, or pm?

And what the fuck is a bus?



Vroom vroom motherfucker

[Antithesis]

Kappy this aint html. [img] onry

Edit: Dam it he fixed it.

9:50 in the morning also.