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Hello, I tried searching for this but its not really easy to find a specific topic or response with this information.
About how much accuracy do you use on Great Axe Warrior to effectively use meat on mamools. Assume worst case scenario that you wont have 1 madrigal, and you will probably have to fight the odd lurker.
Due to the limitations on combat skills I probably wont have the ability to put many or any upgrades into Great Axe via merits, so please state how much +skill from merits you have aswell.
Thanks for your time.
Acc for Meat Build How much Acc to use meat effectively
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#2
Posted 17 September 2008 - 01:44 PM
The bard should know to switch min or one of the marchs for madrigal that's basically a must for keeping chain on lurkers if your aren't fighting lurkers it's not so bad.
As for acc I'd say you want 85-90% (if you consistently hit 95% acc you're capped which means you may have too much acc so be carefull once you hit +90%) but honestly most people when they first start out without merits are going to be around 80% and that's fine. An example of around 80% acc would probably be around +30 acc and +25 dex. Stuff that's very important to get as War gear wise for acc Rajas Ring (#1 this is huge for GAX on /Nin), Haubergeon (duh, right?), Byakko's Haidate, Aurum Sabatons (look these up they're just wrong), Chiv Chain or PCC or Fort. Torque. If you're using /Sam you need to get +2 Store TP in addition to the +5 on Rajas usually that's a combination of Brutal Earring, Chiv Chain, or Ecphoria Ring. That's enough gear to probably allow you to eat meat and be ok.
As for merits I'm assuming you haven't really started on them much but the popular choices are Zerk/Agg 5/5 or Zerg/Agg/DA 3/3/4, Warrior's Charge 5/5, and GAX 8/8.
The other thing I'd suggest is get a parser if you're on PC they are very useful to see what acc you're at and such. Here's the address for the one I use it does need some additional windows add-ons so make sure to download the read-me first. Kparser
As for acc I'd say you want 85-90% (if you consistently hit 95% acc you're capped which means you may have too much acc so be carefull once you hit +90%) but honestly most people when they first start out without merits are going to be around 80% and that's fine. An example of around 80% acc would probably be around +30 acc and +25 dex. Stuff that's very important to get as War gear wise for acc Rajas Ring (#1 this is huge for GAX on /Nin), Haubergeon (duh, right?), Byakko's Haidate, Aurum Sabatons (look these up they're just wrong), Chiv Chain or PCC or Fort. Torque. If you're using /Sam you need to get +2 Store TP in addition to the +5 on Rajas usually that's a combination of Brutal Earring, Chiv Chain, or Ecphoria Ring. That's enough gear to probably allow you to eat meat and be ok.
As for merits I'm assuming you haven't really started on them much but the popular choices are Zerk/Agg 5/5 or Zerg/Agg/DA 3/3/4, Warrior's Charge 5/5, and GAX 8/8.
The other thing I'd suggest is get a parser if you're on PC they are very useful to see what acc you're at and such. Here's the address for the one I use it does need some additional windows add-ons so make sure to download the read-me first. Kparser
#3
Posted 17 September 2008 - 02:31 PM
Thank you for the reply, although it wasn't really what I was asking for. I know my question probably comes off as sounding a little noob'ish, so I guess I deserved the response I got.
As I had mentioned in my original post, the combat skill merit area is pretty limiting, there are only 20 total upgrades that can be done and quite a few more weapons then that. Due to merits I already have placed, and countless removals of merits from weapon A to weapon B etc in the past. I don't intend on changing my combat merits unless I absolutely have to.
What I want to know is approx how much ACC the average WAR is using while eating meat. Obviously a good party setup will usually have 2 bards, doing march march minuet madrigal, or march minuet minuet madrigal but that doesn't always happen. I don't want to end up only being effective in the ideal situation so a rough idea on how much ACC I would need without madrigal would be nice.
As I had mentioned in my original post, the combat skill merit area is pretty limiting, there are only 20 total upgrades that can be done and quite a few more weapons then that. Due to merits I already have placed, and countless removals of merits from weapon A to weapon B etc in the past. I don't intend on changing my combat merits unless I absolutely have to.
What I want to know is approx how much ACC the average WAR is using while eating meat. Obviously a good party setup will usually have 2 bards, doing march march minuet madrigal, or march minuet minuet madrigal but that doesn't always happen. I don't want to end up only being effective in the ideal situation so a rough idea on how much ACC I would need without madrigal would be nice.
#4
Posted 17 September 2008 - 03:57 PM
Well, Ffwiki has the level 83 Mamool Ja Blusterers listed as 322 Eva. +(83-75)*4 + 40 means you need 394 acc to cap accuracy on them. They're a higher level mob than average, but they're also less evasive than NINs and such, so I figure right around 390-400 Acc is where people should aim.
I TP in Acc+34, Dex+26. Works out to +54 Acc for me. I'm also 8/8 GA merits though (15 Acc) and I eat Hedgehog Pie on Mamool for another 5 Acc. This gives me 392 Accuracy, which puts me at a pretty reasonable accuracy level for non-Lurkers (I use Aggressor when at Jade and the NIN+THF are going to be pulled). I can't parse this though so it's pretty hard to guess where my Acc actually is.
I know for sure it's capped or pretty close for most stuff in my RR gear because I watch my TP returns. My WS gear has +35 Acc, +56 Dex , so +77 Acc. With Food and Merits factored in, that's about 422 Acc total for Raging Rush. I could probably go a little Accuracy-lighter, but Bomblet -> Bomb Core is the only place I could think to switch reasonably, and I don't have space in my WS gear macro.
I TP in Acc+34, Dex+26. Works out to +54 Acc for me. I'm also 8/8 GA merits though (15 Acc) and I eat Hedgehog Pie on Mamool for another 5 Acc. This gives me 392 Accuracy, which puts me at a pretty reasonable accuracy level for non-Lurkers (I use Aggressor when at Jade and the NIN+THF are going to be pulled). I can't parse this though so it's pretty hard to guess where my Acc actually is.
I know for sure it's capped or pretty close for most stuff in my RR gear because I watch my TP returns. My WS gear has +35 Acc, +56 Dex , so +77 Acc. With Food and Merits factored in, that's about 422 Acc total for Raging Rush. I could probably go a little Accuracy-lighter, but Bomblet -> Bomb Core is the only place I could think to switch reasonably, and I don't have space in my WS gear macro.
#5
Posted 17 September 2008 - 11:10 PM
I am in your boat with my weapon merits being already maxed out. With 0 G.axe merits I find it to be not worth the time on mamools with all their damn buffs, UNLESS you already have a huge stock of +acc equip or you are guaranteed a double bard party.
The most frustrating thing I find in many parties is the imbalance between players, I have shown up ready to go with meat build and find some gimp ass drk that is eating sushi and demanding min/march, thus negating any chance of me being effective. I have learned to bring both gears sets and usually 3 kinds of food depending on party.
The most frustrating thing I find in many parties is the imbalance between players, I have shown up ready to go with meat build and find some gimp ass drk that is eating sushi and demanding min/march, thus negating any chance of me being effective. I have learned to bring both gears sets and usually 3 kinds of food depending on party.
#6
Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:01 AM
I have no Great Axe merits but with Perdu (+5) Bomblet (+6) Haub+1 (+16) Sniper+Rajas (+8) Swift (+3) Byakkos (+10) and Amir (+6) for +54 total I cap accuracy on non THF or NIN Mamool with Meat and no outside Accuracy buffs, Aggressor is up 210/300 seconds.
#7
Posted 18 September 2008 - 11:29 AM
Well, I decided to post about my own (and unique) experience. 
Personally, My whole equipment set is mostly +strength and +attack, in fact, my +accuracy at the best scenario is around +35 or so. However, I can use meat extremely effectively, and throughout my warrior career it was always like that. I would run out of 2 stacks of meat before I would actually be halfway through one stack of +acc.
Idea is, to be able to use meat effectively you'd need at least +40 accuracy which is a little hard to obtain on gear. Even with merits in Great Axe, you'd still need a pretty good amount of acc equipment to regularly hit those Lurkers. In the end, true, you get to use meat, however, your damage is terribly gimped due to most of your equipment being +acc (and yes, it's good to gain TP etc etc blah blah but I never found it any good if your damage per hit is crap)
This is my setup, and it's what I used all the way to 75:
Warrior / Monk (sounds very noobish to many, but for those who try it, the potential is limitless). Why choose such an "unconventional" subjob?
(And for the record, Thief, Samurai, and Ninja are all level 37
)
Let's look at what Monk can offer a warrior:
The most important thing: Focus. Using Focus = exactly +20 accuracy. So even with only +20 acc on equipment, using Focus will give you +40, which allows a Warrior to focus his/her equipment choices on STR and ATK.(This was my reasoning over 3 years ago when I was around lvl 55, which made me keep /mnk)
Boost: At level 75, a War/Mnk with my same equipment and stats can achieve +57 ATK from a single Boost. Every 15 seconds, that's not too shabby for Weapon Skills.
Then, there is the not-so-worthy of mentioning other abilities, Chakra, Dodge, etc.
How does this factor into a Warrior's Accuracy? Let's see:
Focus = +20 Accuracy. 5 Minutes Cooldown, Lasts 2 minutes (Which leaves exactly 3 minutes until the next focus is available after it wears off)
Aggressor = +25 Accuracy. 5 Minutes Cooldown, lasts 3 minutes (Which leaves exactly 2 minutes before the next Aggressor is ready)
If you alternate both abilities, the 2 minutes that Focus lasts covers the 2 minutes before you can use Aggressor again, and viceversa. In simpler terms, the warrior has +20-25 Accuracy on at all times.
If you have about +20 accuracy only on equipment, that would translate into +55-60 with the abilities. Not shabby at all is it.
Current Warrior Setup:
Weapon: Berserker's Axe
Grip: Axe Grip
Ranged: Fire Bomblet
Head: Unicorn Cap
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Ear1: Bushinomimi (Str+2) or Assault Earring
Ear2: Triumph Earring or Fowling Earring (in case a lil more acc is needed)
Body: Hauberk +1
Hands: Alkyoneus' Bracelets
Rings: Flame Ring x2
Back: Forager's Mantle
Waist: Warwolf Belt or Potent Belt (in case a lil more acc is needed)
Legs: Conte Cosciales (+1 of Barone Cosciales)
Feet: Unicorn Leggings
STR: 82? (not sure) +55 in full STR equipment unbuffed (+60-61 with food, + 65-66 with SAM Sub)
Base Attack around 460
Base Damage against incredibly tough (No Berserk or dmg increasing abilities) 140-180
Base Damage with Berserk: 200-290
Base Weapon Skill Damage (Raging Rush) 1000-1200. (100-140 TP)
Average Weapon Skill Damage: 1300-1500 (100-140 TP)
Highest Weapon Skill Damage: 2247 (153 TP)
Needless to say, it's always better to just go with a balance of STR, Acc, and ATK, and use acc food. (Unless you use a subjob that allows you to do otherwise) Attack food is based on a percentage of your base attack, so if you have a lot of acc equipment, your base attack will not be so great, so the gain from atk food will be marginal.
Disadvantages of /MNK:
-Not many tanks can hold hate through it XD
-No shadows (Although Counter and Retaliation can be fun. Have countered + double attack +retaliation + counter for a total of 5 hits in a row at some points XD)
-Unless the other DDs in the party draw a good amount of attention, you will drain MP, which is not good.
For the most part, I only Merit with a few selected friends that allow me to work at my full potential. (/nin with Great Axe, no thanks
)
If only tanks were able to "tank" at 75 in merit parties
I have done absolutely NO endgame. Only sky access, no sea or anything else available yet. Wanting to do sky a lot so I can get well, some things XD
Another reason for the no sky is well, I refused to do ANY sky unless I was fully merited. This goal has been fulfilled recently:
Berserk Recast: 5/5
Double Attack: 5/5
Warrior's Charge: 5/5
Savagery: 5/5
Critical Hit Chance: 4/4
Great Axe: 8/8
Strength: 5/5
Axe (Hate Dual wield so not meriting it anymore) 4/8
Plus some other random merits in other places.
Personally, My whole equipment set is mostly +strength and +attack, in fact, my +accuracy at the best scenario is around +35 or so. However, I can use meat extremely effectively, and throughout my warrior career it was always like that. I would run out of 2 stacks of meat before I would actually be halfway through one stack of +acc. Idea is, to be able to use meat effectively you'd need at least +40 accuracy which is a little hard to obtain on gear. Even with merits in Great Axe, you'd still need a pretty good amount of acc equipment to regularly hit those Lurkers. In the end, true, you get to use meat, however, your damage is terribly gimped due to most of your equipment being +acc (and yes, it's good to gain TP etc etc blah blah but I never found it any good if your damage per hit is crap)
This is my setup, and it's what I used all the way to 75:
Warrior / Monk (sounds very noobish to many, but for those who try it, the potential is limitless). Why choose such an "unconventional" subjob?
(And for the record, Thief, Samurai, and Ninja are all level 37
)Let's look at what Monk can offer a warrior:
The most important thing: Focus. Using Focus = exactly +20 accuracy. So even with only +20 acc on equipment, using Focus will give you +40, which allows a Warrior to focus his/her equipment choices on STR and ATK.(This was my reasoning over 3 years ago when I was around lvl 55, which made me keep /mnk)
Boost: At level 75, a War/Mnk with my same equipment and stats can achieve +57 ATK from a single Boost. Every 15 seconds, that's not too shabby for Weapon Skills.
Then, there is the not-so-worthy of mentioning other abilities, Chakra, Dodge, etc.
How does this factor into a Warrior's Accuracy? Let's see:
Focus = +20 Accuracy. 5 Minutes Cooldown, Lasts 2 minutes (Which leaves exactly 3 minutes until the next focus is available after it wears off)
Aggressor = +25 Accuracy. 5 Minutes Cooldown, lasts 3 minutes (Which leaves exactly 2 minutes before the next Aggressor is ready)
If you alternate both abilities, the 2 minutes that Focus lasts covers the 2 minutes before you can use Aggressor again, and viceversa. In simpler terms, the warrior has +20-25 Accuracy on at all times.
If you have about +20 accuracy only on equipment, that would translate into +55-60 with the abilities. Not shabby at all is it.
Current Warrior Setup:
Weapon: Berserker's Axe
Grip: Axe Grip
Ranged: Fire Bomblet
Head: Unicorn Cap
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Ear1: Bushinomimi (Str+2) or Assault Earring
Ear2: Triumph Earring or Fowling Earring (in case a lil more acc is needed)
Body: Hauberk +1
Hands: Alkyoneus' Bracelets
Rings: Flame Ring x2
Back: Forager's Mantle
Waist: Warwolf Belt or Potent Belt (in case a lil more acc is needed)
Legs: Conte Cosciales (+1 of Barone Cosciales)
Feet: Unicorn Leggings
STR: 82? (not sure) +55 in full STR equipment unbuffed (+60-61 with food, + 65-66 with SAM Sub)
Base Attack around 460
Base Damage against incredibly tough (No Berserk or dmg increasing abilities) 140-180
Base Damage with Berserk: 200-290
Base Weapon Skill Damage (Raging Rush) 1000-1200. (100-140 TP)
Average Weapon Skill Damage: 1300-1500 (100-140 TP)
Highest Weapon Skill Damage: 2247 (153 TP)
Needless to say, it's always better to just go with a balance of STR, Acc, and ATK, and use acc food. (Unless you use a subjob that allows you to do otherwise) Attack food is based on a percentage of your base attack, so if you have a lot of acc equipment, your base attack will not be so great, so the gain from atk food will be marginal.
Disadvantages of /MNK:
-Not many tanks can hold hate through it XD
-No shadows (Although Counter and Retaliation can be fun. Have countered + double attack +retaliation + counter for a total of 5 hits in a row at some points XD)
-Unless the other DDs in the party draw a good amount of attention, you will drain MP, which is not good.
For the most part, I only Merit with a few selected friends that allow me to work at my full potential. (/nin with Great Axe, no thanks
)If only tanks were able to "tank" at 75 in merit parties
I have done absolutely NO endgame. Only sky access, no sea or anything else available yet. Wanting to do sky a lot so I can get well, some things XD
Another reason for the no sky is well, I refused to do ANY sky unless I was fully merited. This goal has been fulfilled recently:
Berserk Recast: 5/5
Double Attack: 5/5
Warrior's Charge: 5/5
Savagery: 5/5
Critical Hit Chance: 4/4
Great Axe: 8/8
Strength: 5/5
Axe (Hate Dual wield so not meriting it anymore) 4/8
Plus some other random merits in other places.
#8
Posted 18 September 2008 - 12:08 PM
This form of trolling is way over used, be original please.
#9
Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:25 PM
QUOTE (Starr @ Sep 18 2008, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This form of trolling is way over used, be original please.
I don't know I'm kinda scared, he seems pretty serious.
#10
Posted 19 September 2008 - 07:02 AM
QUOTE (Orson @ Sep 18 2008, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know I'm kinda scared, he seems pretty serious.
Lol. XD
The point is, depending only on equipment, too much acc would render the ability to use meat useless. And the other way around. Too much Str/Atk only on gear would render acc food useless. Since all food is based on a percentage.
That's what subjobs are for to make up for whatever the main job lacks.
#11
Posted 19 September 2008 - 10:21 AM
You win sir.
#12
Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:19 AM
Just parsed 87% Accuracy at Mamool Ja Staging point, that's with lots of Puks, forgot to add Chivalrous Chain (+5) and Fowling Earring (+3) in my last post tho. Can't see why you'd be at 75% on Nyzul Mamools.
#13
Posted 20 September 2008 - 10:00 AM
QUOTE (Starr @ Sep 20 2008, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just parsed 87% Accuracy at Mamool Ja Staging point, that's with lots of Puks, forgot to add Chivalrous Chain (+5) and Fowling Earring (+3) in my last post tho. Can't see why you'd be at 75% on Nyzul Mamools.
This makes me hopeful that I'm actually near capped Acc with my gear and merits, lol. I gain 15 Acc from skill merits, but lose 6 Acc from using Dusk over Amir. I wish I could get my hands on some Aurum booties. I do some RDM/NIN tanking, so I'm not sure I'd sell the Dusk+1, but it's nice to think about!
#15
Posted 02 October 2008 - 06:22 PM
QUOTE (Ture @ Sep 18 2008, 06:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The most frustrating thing I find in many parties is the imbalance between players, I have shown up ready to go with meat build and find some gimp ass drk that is eating sushi and demanding min/march, thus negating any chance of me being effective. I have learned to bring both gears sets and usually 3 kinds of food depending on party.
Yea, this is why I don't party with randoms. Friends/ls members only. Your parse drops like a rock when you hold hate most of the time because you're either casting shadows all the time or you're turning to one of the subpar melees can finally pull hate off of you.
To answer the OP's question, I'd consider 33 acc (Haub, Sniper x2 or Sniper/Rajas, PCC, Swift Belt) and Byakko's bare minimum to attempt to use meat at Mamools. I'm not a Gaxe user, but I'd imagine this would parse in the low 80%s like Orson mentioned with no merits. You should be fine against the mage and blu/drg mamools, but your acc will dip against the NIN and your acc drops like a rock against the Lurker. I typically swap out Askar Head for Optical Hat if the BRD forgets to play Madrigal for the Lurker, so you might want to consider bringing along extra acc gear. There really is no 1 ideal TP set and 1 ideal WS set for every single mob.
After that, you just have to upgrade your gear in order to raise your parse. Haub+1/Ebody, Sniper +1s, Aurum Sabatons, etc. Also, make good use of Aggressor. Hopefully your BRD has a pull order, and if you have 0 Aggressor merits, it should be easy to sync it with when you fight the Infiltrator/Lurker at either Tandjana or North MMJSP.
Also, not to nitpick, but you really can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't really expect to do well with meat if you have 0 Gaxe merits and don't plan to upgrade that anytime soon. That's ~14 acc that you're missing which is a good chunk of acc.
#16
Posted 02 October 2008 - 07:04 PM
yeah a smart bard goes a long way to making DD look good.
#18
Posted 25 October 2008 - 10:26 PM
I do /bst against colibri. {Bird Killer} is totally worth it, plus the CHR boost helps you get hate when you need to voke off of the mages. Blm is another good sub, the INT boost helps DA rate, {Blaze Spikes} helps with tanking, and you can warp yourself home after the pt breaks.
It's all about thinking outside the box.
It's all about thinking outside the box.
#19
Posted 26 October 2008 - 02:31 AM
i sub ranger for bloody bolt spam.
#20
Posted 26 October 2008 - 12:36 PM
I sub PUP because I like being myself.
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