[DianaraVP]

All due respect admin, but where were you when they started this crap ages ago. I can't even fucking make a thread anymore without these assholes crawling out of the woodworks to fuck it up. So excuse me if I seem a little pissed off. Read the thread. You tell me how this shit went down. I'm not going to hold my tongue every time these assholes sling insults at me.

[Dyire]

Underneath each post is a report to moderator button. I suggest using it if it gets to that kind of point again.

[Speltz]

Wait, Dianara is upset because everyone's ganging up on him, or rather, disagrees with him? I thought this was a public forum? You can't make a post about politics without drawing flak, that's given, and Dianara has been around long enough to know that. And you ask the mod where was 'he when they started this crap'? You're not exactly innocent in this matter, sir. I'm not, by any means, trying to start anything, I'm just trying to stress that Dianara cannot accuse anyone else of this sort of 'crap.'

[Biglumpfish]

did anyone watch the movie i posted ?

dianara versus abc has been boring for awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z3N3KquVJY...feature=related

[pathwriter]

Your argument about money not being real is also BS. It's real from the perspective that it gets removed from my check every payday in taxes. Bailout means the amount of money removed is likely going to increase in the future. That equals lower quality of life for me, and that's REAL.

You're not reading me correctly. That or I'm not expressing myself correctly. Probably both. Unlike the rich negro who started this thread, I'm just a poor redneck from Maine (oh, whoops, I only live in Ohio).

When I say that the money wasn't real, I mean that it did not exist as cash, capital, or even numbers in a computer before the bailout was ratified. The government doesn't have $700,000,000,000 sitting around (I keep repeating those zeroes so that people will keep seeing how big a number that is). What we did was agree to "find" the money and spend it, then pay it back later. It's actually how lots of major businesses operate, too. Google the term "commercial paper" some time, a commodity which, incidentally, the government is currently bailing out.

The reason I keep saying the money wasn't "real" is because Dianara has this wishful fantasy that if we had not gone to Iraq, we'd just have stacks of cash sitting around. We wouldn't. We haven't had a balanced budget since Clinton was in office and we certainly haven't eliminated the national debt, nor are we likely ever going to do so. Call me a cynic, but I cannot convince myself that Bush and his big business Republican buddies would have gotten the United States operating in the black. In fact, by suggesting that not going to war would somehow achieve that, it almost sounds like some shit-mouthed little Chicagoan supports the idea that George Bush and the Republican Congress are competent and have the nation's best interest at heart. Talk about a serious interruption of logic!

You are correct, though, the debt is real now. But if tomorrow Congress decides that they need another trillion dollars to prevent a worldwide depression (and although we aren't going to have a depression, if the world's governments elected not to act, we would), they'll be able to create that debt out of thin air and then sell it off to China or Japan or Colombia or whomever is buying our debt today. When you start thinking about what it means for China to own a substantial portion of our debt, though, it becomes pretty clear that the debt has nothing to do with money and everything to do with leverage, which makes the lack of physical cash even more unreal.

Also... seriously voting for Barack Obama because his skin tone is a little darker than mine? That's unbelievably offensive, but I guess you deserve credit for admitting it.

[DianaraVP]

You were one of the assholes that started shit with me at the beginning of this thread. In fact, the first words I ever had with you were ones of malice, and I never throw the first punch in any thread, but I am certainly not above throwing one back.

I expect people to not agree in a thread about politics. I also expect that they get their arguments across in a polite and courteous fashion. It's reasonable to have emotional discussions about things we don't agree on. Me and Cruz do it all the time, but we don't fucking hate each other afterward.

Since we are here, lets examine the timeline of this fucking thread shall we...

was going to call you an idiot, but you just arent worth the time or effort

I am not laughing with you Diarana, I am laughing at you.

"This was not Bush's fault idiot..."

"@OP: CRY MOAR NAO!!!!! WIPE THE SAND OUTTA YOUR VAG AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE."

Shut the fuck up, seriously.

Apparently, you are an idiot. Start posting with your brain and stop posting with your ass.

My first "barb" was here:

Please, take your own advice and stay out of conversations about politics if you don't know what you are talking about.

And that was a pretty polite barb...

After that it was pretty much all down hill from there. Even after that though I attempted to be polite and courteous because I really wanted to have a discussion about this. If you would take your head out of your fucking ass you would have seen that. This is pretty much the way things have been around here, and for some fucking reason I keep thinking that I can have a reasonable discussion with you people.

There's no doubt I had a hand in this, but it wasn't because people didn't agree with me you asshole. Oh and just a quick final point here, Ifto basically mentioned that I was ignoring people who were talking shit to me... kinda of funny huh?

Way to just ignore people calling you out for being an idiot.

[Speltz]

The reason why people started shit? Because it's an extremely old, extremely tired, yet still an extremely controversial subject. It almost seems as if you were provoking people into something you knew you could cry about. Wow, honestly. This is a new low. I'm sorry, but I've never in all my years on these boards seen anything like this. If you can't handle others' opinions, then don't make an open thread, especially one on this subject on these boards. If you're so eager about posting your opinion and grievances, there are hundreds of thousands of other websites that share your opinion wholeheartedly. You knew all too well what kind of response this would bring. And the reason people are so hostile with you to start off with? Because people know your reputation on these boards. Call it conditioning, whatever. But it's the simple truth.

"Please, take your own advice and stay out of conversations about politics if you don't know what you are talking about."

The thing is, most of the people on this thread do in fact know about politics, as a matter of fact; why would you post something on a current events board trying to express your idea, with the notion that most people who would even take interest in reading the post wouldn't know anything about politics?

And,

"There's no doubt I had a hand in this, but it wasn't because people didn't agree with me you asshole."

Oh okay. So it was because it made you cry? What other reason would you have? I have seen things said on these boards WAY more horrible than what has been smugly passed across here.

It's reasonable to have emotional discussions about things we don't agree on.

So... what's the problem you have? 'Emotional discussions' is an awfully relavent term. I'll tell you the problem; you got butthurt, you couldn't take it, and that's that. Even you said it's okay to have emotional discussions, so I really don't see what your point is.

[DianaraVP]

Fuck you.

This isn't about being wrong. It's about being polite. You don't give a fuck about making a point here. You just want to start shit with me. Why don't you get lost?

[Speltz]

Oh, I'm not trying to start shit. That's what you were trying to incite. I'm just saying, you weren't justified in what you said. And honestly? I'd ask you the same thing.

[DianaraVP]

I have a reason to be pissed. I tried to have a discussion here, but instead I have had to defend myself from people like you. For the better part of 3 pages now, I have had to deal with this shit as opposed to talking about the issue that I brought up.

You have the nerve to tell me that they understand the arguments, and Pathwriter, by his own admission, didn't even bother to read the damn thing. Then I have to defend the bullshit they spit out. Just get the fuck out of my thread.

[Speltz]

WOW. THERE. WAS. A. DISCUSSION. How many times do I have to stress this? It just didn't go in the way you wanted it. The other 828848393838 topics on WUGD! have been the same way. And I'm honestly not sure why your critics are 'preventing' you from getting back to the topic at hand. Especially via the medium of text / chat. Just type it. Geez. You have attacked the people who have criticism of what you were saying, individuals, and even mods in this thread, even on the last page. I think everyone deserves a little retribution.


And nah, I think I'll stay. It's nice and warm here.

[DianaraVP]

It prevents discussion because it's fucking disruptive!

How about the next time I see you in the street at your local coffee shop having a conversation and I join in like "that was the dumbest thing I ever heard" or "you're an idiot." Honestly, I hope you get mad. Most people would. Yeah, I hope you get mad and get in my face. And I would lay your bitch ass out.

These people aren't fucking critics. Calling me a moron isn't being critical. It's fucking rude.

[Speltz]

It prevents discussion because it's fucking disruptive!

How about the next time I see you in the street at your local coffee shop having a conversation and I join in like "that was the dumbest thing I ever heard" or "you're an idiot." Honestly, I hope you get mad. Most people would. Yeah, I hope you get mad and get in my face. And I would lay your bitch ass out.

These people aren't fucking critics. Calling me a moron isn't being critical. It's fucking rude.

Geez you're angry. And honestly, I wouldn't get mad at something so petty like that, haha. Anyone who would is a fool. The concept is actually laughable. I'm not exactly what one would call the 'violent' type.


And I'm pretty sure that calling someone a moron is almost definitive of being critical, lol. It's rude too, I'll give ya that.

[DianaraVP]

I didn't get angry the first 50 fucking times. But when you are trying to have a fucking discussion, it gets pretty fucking annoying. Oh and for the record, if someone is "being critical of me" and they are not speaking to the argument in question, then I reserve the right to explain to them that that they are wrong. Why don't you actually read the damn thread rather than sit here and argue with me about why I fucked up? Why don't you see how the conversation evolved? Why don't you try to make sense of why I got angry in the first damn place?

I'm not that fucking volatile, but everytime I try to have a discussion and this shit happens, it pisses me off.

[Speltz]

I didn't get angry the first 50 fucking times. But when you are trying to have a fucking discussion, it gets pretty fucking annoying. Oh and for the record, if someone is "being critical of me" and they are not speaking to the argument in question, then I reserve the right to explain to them that that they are wrong. Why don't you actually read the damn thread rather than sit here and argue with me about why I fucked up? Why don't you see how the conversation evolved? Why don't you try to make sense of why I got angry in the first damn place?

I'm not that fucking volatile, but everytime I try to have a discussion and this shit happens, it pisses me off.

1. Right, totally agreed. But it also works the opposite way, which is in essence, an endless, vicious cycle. You don't like that aspect.

2. I did read it, and I put my thoughts and suggestion in.

3. The conversation evolved by you personally attacking someone; for what? Living in a different state, and talking about his 'breed' like they're some kind of lower lifeform. He breathes the same air you do, speaks the same language, and is most definitely of the same species. This is a most dangerous belief system, and I pray that you don't really hold views like these. This is when I jumped in to give my appropriate response and rebuttal.

4. I elaborated several posts up why you got angry, which I still find to be silly.


I just don't get why you aren't used to this yet? KillingIfrit has always had the more educated community in terms of FFXI boards, but also has a reputation of being one of the most fun; which is why I love it so much. That being said, it's nothing new. Everyone has always put their two cents in, and always will. People are going to give you shit when they don't agree with you. As a business owner, you should know this. It's a fact of life.

[DianaraVP]

Wait, the conversation evolved because I attacked someone personally? I'VE BEEN FUCKING ATTACKED THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE FUCKING THREAD. I ignored it damn near till the very end. This thread was beginning to get out of hand way before that. And the reason, because you people are fucking rude. Period.

[Dyire]

Speltz worded that last bit nicely.

KillingIfrit has always had the more educated community in terms of FFXI boards, but also has a reputation of being one of the most fun; which is why I love it so much. That being said, it's nothing new. Everyone has always put their two cents in, and always will.

All in all, discussions on politics in particular will always degenerate a bit with some foul language at some point or another without particularly strict regulation. I'm closing this thread since its pretty far off track from the original intent and because its pretty late at night for me to think of a more comprehensive solution. Do expect some naysayers and harsh language when you discuss this kind of thing but keep in mind that there is a fine line between a blunt rebuttal and a flat out cuss-fest.

I'll probably have to find a way to incorporate the natural flow of conversation of these kind of topics in with flame wars but till then, be mindful of any unneeded insults.