[Cruzandercerberus]

Volunteers supporting Barack Obama picked up hundreds of people at homeless shelters, soup kitchens and drug-rehab centers and drove them to a polling place yesterday on the last day that Ohioans could register and vote on the same day, almost no questions asked.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/news/...bama_132395.htm

evada authorities seized records Tuesday from a group they accused of submitting fraudulent voter-registration forms — including for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

"Tony Romo is not registered to vote in the state of Nevada, and anybody trying to pose as Terrell Owens won't be able to cast a ballot on Nov. 4," said Secretary of State Ross Miller, referring to star players on the pro football team.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvb0LfZ...3QGgdgD93LVDS80





Are you paying attention Karl Rove? This is how you steal an election.

[DianaraVP]

NY Post link doesn't work.

Nevada link to Obama is tenuous at best. We already had this chat about people outside the campaign doing things on the behalf of the campaign (aka third party nutjobs).

Mr Goodwill is not something I know much about, however investigations are ongoing into Obama's funding. Unfortunately for McCain, it is unlikely to have an effect on the election as reports on the economy are burying any "less entertaining" news stories.

The claim the Obama supporters picked up vagrants to get them registered ignores that they do have voting rights. Additionally, Obama supporters are not necessarily connected with the campaign in any way, shape, or form.

I think you might be attempting to paint Obama here as being dishonest and shady, and I'm not sure that your sources or these stories will achieve your goal to that end.

[Cruzandercerberus]

Fixed the links. They're hardly third party nut jobs when they're acting on the behalf of a primary party. I dropped the "Good will" thing because in the long run it's meaningless.

They do have voting rights but how unscrupulous is it to pick up homeless people and offer them a meal or a bottle of cheap booze for a vote?

Fraud is fraud. Do you think should I bring up the lawsuit regarding Obama's citizenship too? Hell all of this is a joke if the candidate can't prove his birth.

[DianaraVP]

Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it. What I am saying is I do not think it will matter much.

As for Obama's citizenship, I would like to hear that argument. It sounds fishy and desperate. Considering the comment in your sig, I think you are better than that. Hammer both the assholes on the issues, not this crap. And you know it's crap. This is the same type of shit that comes out toward the end of presidential campaigns, next thing they will be saying is that Obama had a Nazi relative. Or that McCain may have an illegitimate child (too late on that one).

Can you imagine the dirt that they would dig up on us if we ran for President? You have to take some of this shit with a grain of salt. I could suggest some better news sources if you would like some. =/

[Cruzandercerberus]

No It won't matter much you are right there, whoever gets sworn in is it. Anything after that is sour grapes. Be back with the lawsuit info.

[DianaraVP]

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/getinvolve...2004/model.html

You should check this out. It kind of explains why this story won't get much traction outside of the talking-head shows. It makes an issue out of something that is legal. Questionable, but legal.

And I do not agree that candidates should be responsible for supporters acting on the behalf of the candidate. There are a lot of crazy people out there, and we can't respond to all of them. I think the connections the Rev. Wright are more sensible than the actions of third party groups.

[Dazd]

You try to debunk this yet believe every single negative word spoken about Bush or McCain? Hi pot etc etc.

[DianaraVP]

Do you people just attack my posts because I make them? I mean do you even read the shit I say.

I just said that I don't agree or disagree with any of this, and implied that some of the claims seem dubious and require additional research. On top of that, I made a direct reference to a scandal that was made about McCain that proved to be entirely untrue, and was simply perpetuated to cause McCain to lose ground during a previous election year.

Seriously, I get really tired of this shit. You people attack me, then I respond to your attacks, then you call me erratic. I try to stay on topic and you proceed clown me, almost every time you can see there was a direct attack made on me long before I responded in kind.

Edit: Sorry Cruz, I don't intend on letting your thread turn into a Dia Flame war, but this shit really ticks me off sometimes.

[Cruzandercerberus]

It's cool if it's bullshit I want you to feel free to call me on it. I want to know if these votes being collected by the "One stop door to door voter salespeople" are being electronically verified. It seems unlikely that even if they aren't just filling out names from the obituaries or whatever else ACORN was accused of doing, people volunteering to solicit votes from people on the street will be as impartial as a voting booth, if not just file opposing party votes under the circular file or expose them to Vetting by attorneys for one or another party. The whole thing seems like an invitation for fraud or borderline legal shenanigans.

[Cruzandercerberus]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/a...ity-for-office/

Pennsylvania's former deputy attorney general and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton supporter Philip J. Berg has filed a lawsuit in federal court in Pennsylvania accusing presumptive Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama of lying about his U.S. citizenship, which would make him ineligible to be president.

Mr. Berg is one of a faction of Clinton supporters who haven't heeded the party's call for unity, filing the suit just days before the opening of the Democratic National Convention, which will nominate Mr. Obama as the party's presidential candidate.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1078071/Philip...zenship-Lawsuit


http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?n...33380&rfi=6

In order to be eligible, presidential candidates are required to be "natural born" citizens and may not hold dual or multiple citizenship from foreign countries, according the suit's legal memorandum.
According to Obama's birth certificate, which his campaign posted on its Internet site in June to quell rumors, the senator was born in Hawaii on Aug. 6, 1961.
The lawsuit, however, questions the Democratic candidate's claim that he was born in a Honolulu hospital.
The candidate's late father, Barack Obama Sr., was a native of Kenya, and Berg claims the 47-year-old presumptive presidential candidate's Kenyan relatives say he was born in the African country.
Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, grew up in Kansas, and his parents met at the University of Hawaii when Dunham was a student there, according to the Obama campaign.
Eventually, Obama's father returned to Kenya, and his son grew up in Hawaii with his mother and for a few years in Indonesia after Dunham married an Indonesian man, Lolo Soetoro. As well, Obama lived with his maternal grandparents in Hawaii.
Dunham reportedly traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy, and she was prevented from boarding an airline flight from Kenya to Hawaii because of the late stage of her pregnancy, the lawsuit alleges. She reportedly gave birth to Obama in Kenya, then flew home to Hawaii and registered his birth there.

So is this just typical Clintonista nastiness, or is there more to it?

[pathwriter]

The Obama campaign wasn't just hustling our homeless. For literally a week, I could not walk around campus without being harassed. "Are you registered to vote?" "Yes, months ago, I'm 26 and have been part of the voting process for 8 years now." "Oh, would you like to vote early?" "No, I haven't made up my mind." Then they stand there trying desperately to find some way to say, without saying it, "Well, you should vote early and vote for Obama, it's better than thinking for yourself."

That said, I think I'm actually going to abstain from this election. I don't want either candidate in office and I am increasingly worried that the one who seems slightly better on paper is going to be the one that fucks us over even worse in office. I can't even hope for a timely heart attack or assassination because I don't want either of the VP candidates in office, either.

[Villainous]

It makes an issue out of something that is legal. Questionable, but legal.

Seriously. Is this the best the Republicans can dig up? You're just going to have to try harder. People stopped caring about Ayers/Wright long time ago. They care less about a few donors among millions not correctly listing their residence on the donation form. Keep on digging. McSame is out of plays, there's 2 minutes on the clock and everyone knows it, dogs know it. How is this even comparable to the Keating shit? Who cares if he got a pass, your man was still IN those meetings, he showed up, and thus lent his influence. This motherfucker is corrupt. He's already in big banking's pocket- you do know he blows Phil Gramm right?

And I do not agree that candidates should be responsible for supporters acting on the behalf of the candidate. There are a lot of crazy people out there, and we can't respond to all of them.

Agreed. I live in Boston, and hence my vote doesn't count a whole lot. I & some friends got to thinking how a single person could influence an election. Certainly not by voting, that was clear.
Most of the ideas boiled down to being one of these "3rd party" groups and doing something outrageous that the hungry media would pounce on. When you see shit like Obamagirl doing vids with Nader and being on nationally-syndicated talk shows, the implication is clear: the whore that is the media is now totally up for grabs, or at least available to be manipulated by a wider variety of people.

It's retarded to hold the candidate responsible for 3rd party groups. Lets say I get a list of prominent journalists in Florida, and find out where their parents live.
And push-poll them: "Obama wants to donate your social security to Palestinian charities. He grinds the bones of Jews for his bread. Are you more likely to vote for him knowing this?"
Cut-to, in the morning edition: "McCain staffers accused of aggressive, anti-Semitic push-polling"
See how that works?

[Ture]

So your saying that the candidate is not responsible for silently supporting these third party efforts? Vill you say you live in Boston there was quite a long article the Boston globe did exposing the things that Obama did before his golden boy days. And before anybody gets on their high horse I am 26 and a life long democrat, but I think obama is a Chicago groomed political ghoul who is going to owe more people for his election than Carter did in '76.

[Cruzandercerberus]

. They care less about a few donors among millions not correctly listing their residence on the donation form. Keep on digging.

Yes you're right it is not important to anyone when fraudulent practices are used to conceal the source of campaign donations. Nor is it corruption to repeatedly accept the same campaign donations from sources whose identity cannot be verified. Nor is it hypocritical to with your next breath call McCain corrupt because of a scandal that occurred 20 years ago. These are not legitimate concerns in any way whatsoever.

Pure desperation I'm sure.

Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

[Villainous]

So your saying that the candidate is not responsible for silently supporting these third party efforts?

I am saying that constantly defending/distancing one's self from these 3rd parties:

A) Legitimizes them. Alot of them are total fucking quacks. Defend yourself, but only against credible threats. Notice how Palin has not addressed the witch-doctor claims, and how nobody seems to care? Its because any rationial human being knows, that just because she went to one of those crazy ceremonies, does NOT mean she believes in the shit. Rev. Wright is a different story. He says some pretty inflammatory shit, and the fact both he & Obama are black made it easy for Republicans to play on deep seated fears. Wright was a CREDIBLE threat- it needed to be made clear Obama did not share his views, and that's exactly what happened.

B ) Makes you seem like a pussy. Its called Swift-Boating. You are essentially being manipulated into spending all your time defending yourself, which equals less time talking about the economy- and guess who that benefits?

C) Alienates people that, despite being a bit kooky and for whatever reason, are increadibly motivated in your favor. Actually showing up to vote is probably the least they will do, you know how hard it is to get the average person to do that much?

I think obama is a Chicago groomed political ghoul who is going to owe more people for his election than Carter did in '76.

I'm glad someone brought this up. I constantly hear the remarks:

"Obama is a typical Chicago politician"
"Part of the Chicago politican machine"
"Shady connections to Chicago political operatives"

Ok I am going to plead ignorance here, someone please educate me:
What the fuck do these phrases mean?
People talk about Chicago like we're in Capone days, is this the new seat of corruption in the US? I thought that was Texas/Florida?
How is the "Chicago political machine" any different from the "Sacramento political machine" or the "Austin political machine" or "<insert anytownUSAhere> political machine"?
How is a Chicago political operative any shadier than a Washington political operative.
You would think Chicago = the AIDS of politics. What is this assertion based on? Its just the biggest spin made up out of fuckall-nothing. I consider myself well-read, I've been hearing these phrases for the last two years, and I STILL don't know what they mean.

Yes you're right it is not fraud to conceal the source of campaign donations. Nor is it corruption to repeatedly accept the same campaign donations from sources whose identity cannot be verified. Nor is it hypocritical to with your next breath call McCain corrupt.

Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Hey, they are both politicians. All politicians are a little dirty. Evaluate the circumstances and consequences of their actions.
Obama takes a little dirty cash to get elected. Which will contribute to... Obama being elected.
McCain takes a LOT of dirty cash and knowingly attempts to affect policy on his rich buddy's behalf. Which contributed to... the savings and loan crisis.
The difference? (and this difference is critical to how I interpret the situation)
One involves a betrayal of the American people.

[Cruzandercerberus]

Hey, they are both politicians. All politicians are a little dirty. Evaluate the circumstances and consequences of their actions.
Obama takes a little dirty cash to get elected. Which will contribute to... Obama being elected.
McCain takes a LOT of dirty cash and knowingly attempts to affect policy on his rich buddy's behalf. Which contributed to... the savings and loan crisis.
The difference? (and this difference is critical to how I interpret the situation)
One involves a betrayal of the American people.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081008/D93M0K5G0.html

democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has raised about $3.3 million from contributors who did not list a home state or who designated their state with an abbreviation that did not match one of the 50 states or U.S. territories, according to records provided by the Federal Election Commission.

Most of those contributors did identify themselves as living abroad in foreign cities. Under federal law, foreign citizens cannot make political contributions, but U.S. citizens living abroad can.

Who is betraying the American people? Hmmm.

In the end Barry Soetoro is one of the top receivers of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, on top of all this other shady fundraising. Seriously people need to stop trying to bring up shit from 20 years ago to hide the fact that your boy is apparently as corrupt as they come. You know aside from being a complete media generated lie.

[pathwriter]

You know aside from being a complete media generated lie.

So you're saying that Barack Obama is metaphorically Kimbo Slice? What's scary is that I could buy that.

[Ture]

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjRjY...TMxMmNhZWQ1MTA=


That article is pretty slanted but points people in the right direction about obama.


I am also pretty sick about how rev wright got off the hook so clean. You cannot tell me that the obamas' sat in his church for 20 years of Sundays and didn't support the shit that he spewed from the pulpit

[pathwriter]

An interesting article, but not particularly damning. The link is present, but moderately tenuous. It's using scare tactics to suggest that an ill-advised activist group indicates... actually, I can't figure out what it's trying to suggest except "fear Obama."

Thing is, only the middle class and sanguine bankers ever believed the myth that American homes were money in the bank. Renting has always been the smarter choice. To the argument of "Well, what about equity?", the whole problem with equity is that it is only used to drive you further into debt, anyhow.

[Villainous]

Who is betraying the American people? Hmmm.

The answer is: William Timmons Sr.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Sept. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The lobbying firm of the man Republicans say John McCain has chosen to begin planning a presidential transition earned more than a quarter of a million dollars this year representing Freddie Mac, one of the companies McCain blames for the nation's financial crisis.

Timmons & Co., whose founder and chairman emeritus is William Timmons Sr., was registered to lobby for Freddie Mac from 2000 through this month, when the federal government took over both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

We can trade links all day Cruz. I'm willing to accept Fannie and Freddie supply cash to BOTH sides. But McCain was the one who got caught with his land literally in the cookie jar, MULTIPLE times (there were 3 meetings- he didn't attend by accident). McCain is the one who's indiscretion is directly related to the issue at hand TODAY.

About the foreign donations- if it IS true, how does this add up to a betrayal of the American people? He's not spending any of MY money. You think Republican donations are clean? In my book, taking money from American businessmen, to influence American policy, AGAINST the best interests of the American people, resulting in them having to bail out your buddy's company to the tune of $150 billion? How can you even begin to compare that to two palestinan kids buying a few crates of Obama t-shirts? How can you even support these flimsy allegations in the face of the last 8 years of Rovian debaucheries? There is push-polling and voter intimidation going on RIGHT FUCKING NOW. GOP fucks are on college campuses, RIGHT NOW, handing out literature saying undercover police will be present at polling stations.

I understand you want to defend the Republican party, but I dont think anyone will deny the GOP OWNS corruption. The Dems aren't clean, but shit.. trying to put it out there that Barack is the more dishonest of the two is just misguided. McCain can't even keep a straight face when he lies, he cracks into that weird grimace. Like Chris Rock said- I trust the guy with ONE house and one dinky hybrid... not the old white guy with 14 houses and 17 cars.

With the first black candidate in history, alot of people are quick to try to make this about color. They are right, and the color is: GREEN. This election isn't black vs. white, its rich vs. poor, no matter what color you are. And you're over here trying to tell me the monopoly guy in the tophat with the zillionaire wife and the banker buddies is the one I should trust to put MY best interests first? PLEASE. Had Phil Gramm not opened his mouth and told the truth about how he saw the American people, that guy might have been our next Treasury secretary. Please tell me you're not naive enough to buy into this crap.

Edit: I see nobody answered my question regarding the "Chicago political machine" spin-job. Anyone care to provide insight, or are you just regurgitating what the talking heads feed you?