[IronPandemonium]

...why can't I find any real NIN/DRKs around here.

...then again, why can't I find any Ninjas in general around here.

DEAD FORUM IS DEAD.

But seriously, question is: Have any of you people NIN/DRK'd before (where it's useful, also known as HNM, if it wasn't already obvious as to where /DRK works)... ever?

I feel as if I will remain being as rare as I did before this topic is posted.

RICHARDD, WHERE ART THOU?

Useless topic is useless(?), for the most part, I know, but goddamn this place is already very... silent, as is. Read above though and ANSWER ME (even if not Richardd).

...but that's what Ninjas are meant to do, I guess; be silent and junk. Fuck, I'm way out of my league.

[richardd]

NIN/DRK sucks its been replaced by blu/sam







i know there's been a million of these topics already, but since most of those get derailed within the 1st page or so, ill break it down kinda fast lol. Nin/drk can tank anything in the game, even Khim. You dont always have to rely on stun for hate because after about 5-7 min, sleep will generate more hate than your stuns will. But since i lvl'd /rdm i found it to be alot better as far as hate and -dmg goes. But i still go /drk for the most part. If the mob has a hate reset, /drk will usually be more efficient than /rdm ( well... depending on who your co-tank is) since it has last resort and souleater and you can start hitting lvl 85 mobs for about 100/swing. but where /drk shines are at mobs which can be stunned. Like Cerb/Tia/proto omega/ultima. Hell, even for mobs that cant be stunned very often, i still like it on, i kept hate from the trigger happy blms even 1 min into terror, giving them all the freedom in the world, while solo tanking. (i held this one Rukenshin style, and killed it with 20 min to spare)

Even if Faf is kind of a joke, it leaves a really good impression on your mages, if you do your job and they feel safe lol. Its really all about your preference!

So to answer your question, yes people still nin/drk, but you wont see it nearly as often because the only ppl left playing it are the hardcroe ones (or new ones who just dont know what the hell they're doing). All the 2005 nin/drks jumped on the pld bandwagon when shield mastery and sentinel ver.2 came out lol

[Saxonian]

Newbs be Pld.
Pro's be Nin.
(Im a Pld :'()
I have the most respect for people like Rich who still tank on Nin/Drk.

[Amastacia]

The harder part than tanking NIN/DRK is getting a LS to use one when you have good PLDs.

/sadpanda

[IronPandemonium]

The reasoning I got as to why we "don't want to use lolnin",

"Can NIN/DRK cure itself?"

I don't know about you, but I SURE AS SHIT don't plan to get hit in the FIRST PLACE (like ANY job with Utsu' would).

But yeah, I only completed my /DRK about a week ago, but just wow, lol... so much fun; enjoy it almost of the scale of my Samurai, and if you knew me, that'd be somethin', seeing me say that. I've tanked Tiamat, Cerberus, ALMOST Khimaira (fuck you popping on the window after I went to sleep!), Lambton Worm, Sandworm Serket, and they were honestly all outright laughable... planning Ouryu/Bahamut eventually too, but I reckon a barstone set is helpful on Ouryu? Clue me in ;>_> lol. Ultima/Omega too I reckon, just... haven't done Limbus in ages, woo.

SINCE we're overwhelmed with Paladins basically, I have to find that balance to much a degree (whenever I'm ALLOWED to tank ), in which a Stun and a Bind in my some-what meh equipment already's alone to override a Flash... so funny just sitting on my ass and holding enmity the whole time.

ANYWHO though, was wondering... earrings, I'm assuming Eris' +1 x2 > Eris' +1 and Loq'? 1% Fast Cast doesn't seem too special after messing with it, unfortunately Kind of regret buying the damn thing now, lol.

Another thing I was kind of wondering about, ever since Shark Strap came out... have any of you bothered with Hades'? I know it's still +4 enmity over 'staff, but eh... giving up Weapon Bash (blinking is a SUPER no-no in my opinion), parrying, and -20% Physical (even though you SHOULDN'T be hit normally, it's still nice to have), all for that? /meh, but that's just me

...and FINALLY, I'm always seeing you in Arhat's Jinpachi/Seiryu's Kote/Suzaku's Sune-ate Rich'... is that just for screenshots, or...? If it's a full defense set for when you -know- you'll be hit, again, NORMALLY I'd blink like a maniac like I do on Samurai, but since my mages are lazy, I'm purely against it on NIN Reckon I could make one of those sets though otherwise when I get around to Shadow Mantle!

...as A.Jinpachi/Gi/S.Kote/B.Haidate/S.Sune-ate is my town gear with a Dissector anyways

But yeah, fuuuuuuuuuuuckin' love nin/drk... outright retarded with the OPPRESSION towards it, I swear. /facepalm

[Tikki]

I still need to level drk. About the only place I'll prolly use it is limbus. :<

I'm still pretty annoyed at SE's description of ninja as 'a party based tank' or whatever, basically saying we require people to help us. Well I sure as shit ain't seen a paladin who can tank anything solo. Sure they can self cure, but that mp is gonna run out. They can get interrupted. I've had paladins fall over on me when the whms decided to diddle themselves and sit on 800+ mp instead of I dunno, cure. A single smn spamming cure 3 isn't going to do shit when the paladin is taking hits for 200+ a pop.

[Andypoole]

PLD cures for enmity. The fact that it cures is a bonus I guess, but when it comes to HNM you sure as hell aren't relying on a PLD's MP pool to survive. The point of PLD/NIN is to (try) not get hit in the same sense as NIN/DRK. Haven't personally seen Iron tank but I bet he's doing a damn good job.

[Tikki]

PLD cures for enmity. The fact that it cures is a bonus I guess, but when it comes to HNM you sure as hell aren't relying on a PLD's MP pool to survive. The point of PLD/NIN is to (try) not get hit in the same sense as NIN/DRK. Haven't personally seen Iron tank but I bet he's doing a damn good job.

Oh, I know cures are for enmity, but you sure wouldn't think that the way people go on about it.

[richardd]

The reasoning I got as to why we "don't want to use lolnin",

"Can NIN/DRK cure itself?"

I don't know about you, but I SURE AS SHIT don't plan to get hit in the FIRST PLACE (like ANY job with Utsu' would).

But yeah, I only completed my /DRK about a week ago, but just wow, lol... so much fun; enjoy it almost of the scale of my Samurai, and if you knew me, that'd be somethin', seeing me say that. I've tanked Tiamat, Cerberus, ALMOST Khimaira (fuck you popping on the window after I went to sleep!), Lambton Worm, Sandworm Serket, and they were honestly all outright laughable... planning Ouryu/Bahamut eventually too, but I reckon a barstone set is helpful on Ouryu? Clue me in ;>_> lol. Ultima/Omega too I reckon, just... haven't done Limbus in ages, woo.

SINCE we're overwhelmed with Paladins basically, I have to find that balance to much a degree (whenever I'm ALLOWED to tank ), in which a Stun and a Bind in my some-what meh equipment already's alone to override a Flash... so funny just sitting on my ass and holding enmity the whole time.

ANYWHO though, was wondering... earrings, I'm assuming Eris' +1 x2 > Eris' +1 and Loq'? 1% Fast Cast doesn't seem too special after messing with it, unfortunately Kind of regret buying the damn thing now, lol.

Another thing I was kind of wondering about, ever since Shark Strap came out... have any of you bothered with Hades'? I know it's still +4 enmity over 'staff, but eh... giving up Weapon Bash (blinking is a SUPER no-no in my opinion), parrying, and -20% Physical (even though you SHOULDN'T be hit normally, it's still nice to have), all for that? /meh, but that's just me

...and FINALLY, I'm always seeing you in Arhat's Jinpachi/Seiryu's Kote/Suzaku's Sune-ate Rich'... is that just for screenshots, or...? If it's a full defense set for when you -know- you'll be hit, again, NORMALLY I'd blink like a maniac like I do on Samurai, but since my mages are lazy, I'm purely against it on NIN Reckon I could make one of those sets though otherwise when I get around to Shadow Mantle!

...as A.Jinpachi/Gi/S.Kote/B.Haidate/S.Sune-ate is my town gear with a Dissector anyways

But yeah, fuuuuuuuuuuuckin' love nin/drk... outright retarded with the OPPRESSION towards it, I swear. /facepalm

well, like i said its all about your preference. I can give a shit about that shark strap lol, i dont need it. I tank with at least 1400-1500 HP from just HP merits and i use a tav taco 100% of the time now everywhere i go, so the HP isnt going to do anything for me, especially since you only need at least 1200 to tank anything nowadays anyway. As far as the enmity goes, you have to remember, im a macro-maniac. Windower macros are sex so i change to hades sainti when im casting spells like sleep/dispel/stun etc.
since there's a maintenance now, i cant really go in game and show you, but this is what i generally use:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=979107#item_sets
scroll down to the nin/drk area

as far as my def gear goes, thats the gear i use to take all my little pretty SS's with. It reduces so much dmg, thats its almost laughable. I used to get mocked when i came here, saying Cerb would hit me for 300's like they seen other nin's get hit for. Oh pls. I got ss's of him hitting me for 140's. Nin's can take some of the smallest unblocked dmg in the game, its all about how motivated you are. But i have a different mindset. You know how everyone in life tells you not to be so negative and down... well to tank something effectively, you gotta do the opposite and expect the worse, and be prepared for it. If i have 1 shadow up and im tanking tia, i switch to my def macro to cast ichi because im gonna expect a double attack and get interrupted. Might as well do it in gear that you know you can take hits really good with. And if you think about it, that makes sense. Thats why pld use shield gear for their ichi macros as well. That shield proc would save alot of mp.

So i dont really have an idle gear, i just happen to mostly be in that gear when i take a SS lol. I blink, blink and blink some more, but im also effective, so idc. After i reach the hate cap, ill mostly stay in my haste gear since its all about maintaining the hate, rather than going for more.

[Andypoole]

Oh, I know cures are for enmity, but you sure wouldn't think that the way people go on about it.

Same guy who told Iron that PLD is better because it can cure still thinks ridill is superior to any weapon, though. But it's nice to see some people understand by now. /props

[Hyriu]

I tank everything in the game with my sweet 1250 Taru HP, really should finish merits <.<

[Hakamaru]

"Can NIN/DRK cure itself?"

no, but i always found that NIN/DRK and PLD/NIN make amazing co-tanks. NIN/DRK produces more hate faster than a PLD/NIN, which means the PLD won't be getting pounded on as much, which means he will have higher hate level when the NIN gets hit and hate shifts to the PLD. Plus, don't underestimate how much damage is being avoided from stun on many big mobs.

I don't know about you, but I SURE AS SHIT don't plan to get hit in the FIRST PLACE (like ANY job with Utsu' would).

I think that's a flawed philosophy. NIN/DRK can take punches amazingly well... probably better than a PLD when they don't have Sentinel up. You really need to make a physical DEF set seperate from your haste/enmity set if you want to be a good NIN/DRK.

...and FINALLY, I'm always seeing you in Arhat's Jinpachi/Seiryu's Kote/Suzaku's Sune-ate Rich'... is that just for screenshots, or...? If it's a full defense set for when you -know- you'll be hit, again, NORMALLY I'd blink like a maniac like I do on Samurai, but since my mages are lazy, I'm purely against it on NIN Reckon I could make one of those sets though otherwise when I get around to Shadow Mantle!

That's his full DEF set for when he knows he's getting hit. I personally think he would be better with some HQ Darksteel pieces instead of some of those raw DEF pieces. If you wanna get these numbers down, you really need a dedicated set of gear for it and you NEED to eat DEF food (yay Tacos). Phalanx II and Shining Ruby (the carby buff) are icing on the cake. This is what I use (although, i have HQ DS feet now for a total of -45% damage taken):



And some random damage samples:


Most of these are without phalanx 2, except the Ouryu hit. That one had shining ruby and phalanx 2. Check out my, as of yet, single-entry blog for all my NIN/DRK gear sets. When I was initially making my blog, it had a couple SS's of an Aegis PLD getting nailed consistently for 380-440 damage by khimaera. I pulled it out to protect the innocent.

[Kaparu]

The harder part than tanking NIN/DRK is getting a LS to use one when you have good PLDs.

/sadpanda

Please. Try getting anyone under any circumstances let you tank a damn thing as RDM.

[Evenal]

i saw you on nin/drk iron the other day D: go go lol wish i had an opportunity to play with it /sad lol

[WWF_ultimatewarrior]

The Resist Paralyze isn't so bad against Hakutaku...

What? That's all I got really.


Oh, and Bind on Kirin is good for laughs, like "ha ha", but, not a whole string of them... that's just obnoxious.

[IronPandemonium]

Think yer' takin' me the wrong way Haka', lol o_O


Fully aware it's always nice to have an OHSHIT set ready for when you know you're about to be hit, but then I'd see Rich's set, and I'm like "buh..." BUT, at the same time, when you think about it, for hands/feet, not much other alternative than S.Kote/S.Sune-ate if you don't have D.Wristbands/D.Leggings (since -physical% > DEF in the long run anywho for hard-hitting stuff :S ). I've never been a fan of just straight DEF builds outside out -physical%, hence why I was confused, but I'll definately get around to picking up the 'wristbands atleast, as I lead a Nyzul' static and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting me those things.

Probably end up using Usukane Sune-ate for ohshit too, but who knows; might just keep S.Sune-ate for that kind of thing anyways since they are essentially slightly better DEF-wise, OR get D.Leggings +1 ('haidate4lyfe, and doesn't -physical% cap at 50% anywho? Though you'd only hit 47% with D.Wristbands/D.Subligar +1/D.Leggings +1 combined anyways >_>).

...granted, that's also assuming my mages are willing to go the extra mile to not suck (deal with blinking), barring one or two I know that're amazing at the job as is, even with my blinking on Samurai. I'm fully aware as to how NIN/DRK generally works, don't get me wrong; I'm just trying to put the last couple of nails into the board, just to make sure (because it's nearly impossible to figure out otherwise, asking yourself the same question when you're looking for outward opinion).

Main reason why I made the topic was because I literally never see any NIN/DRKs period besides Ruke', Rich', and Haka' (and sometimes Vey' I reckon D: ), and I just wanted a bearing on the little, but effective if tuned, pieces (example being double Eris' +1, of which I think I'll be picking another up here now and use Loq' at the beginning of a cast, depending on which spell it is).

Main reason I just find it funny in my case though is just yeah... apparently, because I can't cure myself, that means I can't tank, because I'm meant to be blood tanking 24.7 or some shit like I'd be draining MP the whole time and being counter-productive. Stun itself makes keeping Utsu' up -immensely- easier, but even for when you can't use Stun, it's so overrated these days (or atleast on this server) on how to correctly time a Utsu' cast on HNM... lol. Simple way of summing it up: People without PCs, playing FFXI, telling a NIN/DRK that NIN/DRK can't tank because the person doesn't know what the fuck CE and VE is, while the NIN/DRK they're telling it to does know how enmity works, makes me rofl.

Not even in my full -physical% set from SAM, I still managed to dim Sandworm Serket to like 80~ a hit (when she -did- actually hit me, of which was like... four times ever that whole fight because timing stun and Utsu' casts correctly on this one rapes it completely), and Lambton' to like 160~. Again, NOT EVEN in full -physical% (could put on another -8%), but this is all beside the point that it should rarely even happen, especially when co-tanking with somebody (which is basically all the time these days), since it's simply too easy to tank something with duo, when both tanks know what the shit they're doing (of which x1 NIN/DRK and PLD/NIN > x2 PLD/NIN, in my opinion).

Solo, it's much more understandable for a -physical% set to be useful, as you've got more pressure on you, but the people I'm talking to talk as if the moment my first 'Ni goes down, I'm going to get raped because I don't have the intelligence to time an 'Ichi cast (nor another person to share enmity with). D:

If I could take screenshots of some of the stupid shit I've seen from people talking about NIN/DRK like they know it (meanwhile saying as if it's never even existed ever the day before), and saying it fails in comparison to PLD... you'd laugh, trust me.

[Hakamaru]

Think yer' takin' me the wrong way Haka', lol o_O

I don't think so. You keep saying you don't want to blink. I really don't think blinking is that big of deal. I've talked to lots of mages about what their accepted level of blinking is... and almost all of them will tolerate blinking between a Hate Gain and DEF set. And in reality it's in your best interest to blink because you want your hate/haste set and your "Oh shit" set to be very specialized. If your mages can't handle that, then they are complete wastes of space (i honestly doubt that's the case).

Fully aware it's always nice to have an OHSHIT set ready for when you know you're about to be hit, but then I'd see Rich's set, and I'm like "buh..." BUT, at the same time, when you think about it, for hands/feet, not much other alternative than S.Kote/S.Sune-ate if you don't have D.Wristbands/D.Leggings (since -physical% > DEF in the long run anywho for hard-hitting stuff :S ). I've never been a fan of just straight DEF builds outside out -physical%, hence why I was confused, but I'll definately get around to picking up the 'wristbands atleast, as I lead a Nyzul' static and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting me those things.

There's always Darksteel +1 pieces for hands, feet and legs.

Probably end up using Usukane Sune-ate for ohshit too, but who knows; might just keep S.Sune-ate for that kind of thing anyways since they are essentially slightly better DEF-wise, OR get D.Leggings +1 ('haidate4lyfe, and doesn't -physical% cap at 50% anywho? Though you'd only hit 47% with D.Wristbands/D.Subligar +1/D.Leggings +1 combined anyways >_>).

Don't under-estimate the power of that last 7% of damage reduction. It adds like haste, in that it gets more potent the more you already have on. So that last 7% will end up reducing your damage by something like 12%. Which is pretty nice considering that the hate you lose when getting pounded is proportional to the amount of damage you take.


As for the earrings... it's not a big deal either way. If you've got plenty of MP, go with the other Eris +1. I use Cassie cuz of Taru HP, but that's the only slot that I make a compromise based off my Taru HP.

Oh and with Sainti vs that enmity grip... I'll stick with Sainti. With capped parrying, you won't parse much over 5% parry rate on HNMs. And it always seems to happen when I'm about to cancel that last shadow for an Ichi recast anyways, so parrying is all but irrelevant. I actually tank disengaged all the time now.

The best advice I can give for anyone trying to NIN tank (be it /DRK, /RDM or whatever)... do NOT make hybrid sets. Make gear sets for 1 purpose and max out that purpose to the best of your abilities.

[Cyprias]

My LS uses NIN/DRK all the time. in fact, got these doing so ;D

[richardd]

its a hard thing being a nin/drk, especially in my situation. i said it a thousand times, i have the utmost respect for anyone no matter what gear they have, as long as they put in effort... and the sad truth is, nin/drk is one of those jobs you cant half ass, it only makes the rest of us look bad upon initial impression of others. Ppl think i got it good, because they see SS"s of me tanking everything, but i had to work for that kind of trust lol. For me to be picked over 2 other aegis to tank something like Odin, or ixion, or whatever, doesnt come from me getting on ppl's asses to let me tank. If anything, im the one usually asking to go DD instead, but when actions speak louder than words, i gotta man up and keep doing what i know EVERYONE here is capable of doing. Im not a genious. Im not special by any means, all the gear i have can be earned 1 way or another. So keep doing a good job on nin. Show wapa what your capable of, im really happy to see you others stepping it up as well RDM or NIN.

as far as def goes, if you read my FFXIah thingy, i am working on denali hands atm, ill get em eventually. Nyzul to me never struck me as something interesting. All the gear there sucks ass, compared to what i normally have, so i never really had the motivation to go in... but ehhh now i do. Ill get the greaves eventually as well, but i need to get my buddy to craft those for me lol. But i honestly dont mind what i have. If its gotten me this far, than im ok with it. I still get'r done

Another good peice of gear i found were the storm head peice's from assult. it has MDB+2 and nin can wear. If i can -25% magic already, than the extra MDB would just be the icing on the cake. Im also revamping my Magic DEF gear to put more INT on it, since i found out MND kind of sucks on anything that isnt WHM nuke-based. Like Citadel buster, or Holy. Int would be better for things like AV's Aeorga IV and whatnot.


also sidenote: after reading some of my posts, i cant help but feel as if i sort of give out an anti-pld vibe. If so, i dont mean it, i got respect for all tanks in general. i just respect nin and rdm more because we dont have a 5 min sentinel macro and have NO room for mistakes. But regardless, like haka said, i trust pld more than i trust rdm as a co-tank to have my back in those "shit-hit-the-fan" moments because even if they have it easier than everyone else, they still get the job done just as well as we do in the end.


oh btw edit:
just to show the power of /rdm, we recently did an odin and i had to go nin, etc. My friend parsed this and if you never faught odin, He has shit DEF, sata is awesome on him and you can break 1k easy on any job, and enfeebles are generally hard to land. He has a move that silences and curses you and spams it CONSTANTLY after a certain % interrupting all yours casts. He also has a move that can dispel all your buffs completely. So i made a macro to eat a tav taco and echo drops, and just used my holy waters manually.

The way we do it, we have melee love and SMN love. Constant TP feeding on Odin so he will do nothing but interrupt you over and over with that silence/curse move and those spikes. Nothing we cant handle, we done it a million times. I go in for 1st aggro and dispel. I have a ghorn in my pty so MP isnt an issue. I can literally spam dispel and never run out of MP. The pld cannot spam anything but cures on himself with his HP macro, so he gets 90% of the sata's to keep up.

Now here's where it gets interesting, after 5 min, even with 1k SATA gekkos from Goldo the beast (if you dont know who he is, you betta ax' somebodeh') he was still glued on to me... ninjas are a GREAT fucking tank if you got the gear/motivation for it. If any of your pld friends mock it, show them this:

having over 70% of the hate and more shadows taken, i still took less overall dmg than the pld, while maintaining more hate. And this isnt your typical tank, this was a career pld. But we still have a lot to offer, its just up to other ppl whether they want to be open minded or not ! Ninja tanks unite!

[Hyriu]

Ninja tanks unite!

shiftsix