[Arnek]

Atleast this is what a friend of mine believes. He thinks in most situations, a SAM does better damage overall then a DRG. What do you think?

[Dragonhope]

What server is this friend on? Maybe we can get one of our resident DRGs to party with him and parse against him and see. Then again, taking a look at Junyi's parses, I wonder if we really need to...

[Arnek]

What server is this friend on? Maybe we can get one of our resident DRGs to party with him and parse against him and see. Then again, taking a look at Junyi's parses, I wonder if we really need to...

This is on Siren. He says that the really good DRGs can of course do more damage, But if you put an Average DRG and an Average SAM in a party, hands down, the SAM wins most situations.

[pathwriter]

Define "average." I would not be shocked to find that his "average" is a Hagun&Haubergeon Samurai against a Dragoon wearing Drachen Mail.

[Xanthe]

I'll refer you to the Your Parses thread.

I'll second what pathwriter said. An average isn't the same as typical. If he wants an accurate comparison he should compare people of both jobs with similar gear quality and skill.

[Dragonhope]

Compare jobs of similar gear quality and skill? Blasphemy! The average MNK pwns all (average MNK in this case being a BB MNK!).

[Leerhew]

I agree with Path on this one also. Seems all the "average" SAMs on Fairy all have Hagun And Haub +1. Let's be honest here though an average SAM (in SAM terms) and an average DRG (those using Tourney Lance and wearing AF) do not compare ddwise.

A lot of this I believe is due to the lack of good equip buyable on the AH. Most of drgs good gear takes a fair amount of work to get (ie Heca, Homam, Askar, and even assault gear not to mention the Ares) whereas any SAM can walk up to AH and buy the 1337 gear assuming he/she has the money and BAM all of a sudden hes a 1337 SAM that will out DD the average DRG.

Heres the thing though (I refrain from inviting SAMS to my pts if i dont know them) SAM is a lazy job.
Everyone loves you for DD so when there are 50 DD looking for pt and 2 mages the SAMs will and do get the invites. Tack on the availability of their uber gear and this adds up to a lazily easy lvld job that can outperform most and attracts many players who wont put in the work and dont care if their skills arent the greatest b/c everything has come so easy to them. DRGs on the other hand must and do work their tales off even for their mediocre gear and consequentially these players seem to me to have a more vested interest in their skill and performance.

fake scenario EX: SAM rips off solo skillchain third eye meditates and rocks another and usually lives to see the other side of the fight.

DRG does same thing and unless super jump is up many times will die

SAMs can go all out almost all the time whereas DRG must be much more subtle and imho lends itself to breeding better all around players.

As far as DD capabilities taking 2 EQUALLY geared, skilled, merited players (1 drg + 1 sam) The SAM may come out slightly on top b/c they can WS like noones business (DAMN YOU SE AND YOUR SAMCOCKSUCKING updates) but methinks they will be ALMOST equal and you can count on the drg to win that battle once in a while at least.

The one thing that REALLY bothers me about SAMS is that they can use too many damn weapons effectively. WTF at a polearm weilding SAM outDDing a DRG on birds (hasnt happened to me as of yet ) but some uber SAM friends have come close.

[Dragonhope]

Dude...I think you just took the bait. o.o

[Raidon_666]

when i started the game everyone used to dis people who lvled mnk (at least i always heard them do it, i never did idc tbh) saying that when you lvl monk you suddenly become dumb.. it seems latley.... every sam ive come across recently has just been so thick.. has no clue about anything "OH WTF I DIED!" umm thats cos you WS straight off the bat? "DO this and that SC!" (in nyzul.. on normal mobs o.0 ummmm no)
oh and my favourite "it doesnt matter what tank job you get ill be tanking" then they dont.. yea.. stfu you bigheaded dick..

it seems to me .. you start to lvl sam, as your main, and you become -IQ (im not saying im clever by any means but i think you get what im getting at lol)

i have no doubt in my mind tho.. that alot of sams are pure uber, but that could be said about alot of jobs.. i know or a fact there is some sams who arnt dumb, who dont show themselves up, and dont think they can take on the world+ but alot of people recently are making me dislike sams... and its DEFINATLY put me off lvling it (i did concider it at a time but no more)


/rant off

i havnt been outparsed by a sam on birds and my gear isnt even as good as most you drgs on here (was too busy getting 75 bst) .. or at least not that i know of (ive even been in a pt with 2 "average"(by asura standards at least) sams who both admited (AFTER) that they couldnt keep up at all)

ther argument i hear alot is "i was tanking the whole fight" umm yea.. i used super jump, i know how to control my hate, i know that if i ws as soon as i pull out my weapon then ws 5 secs after im gonna tank the fight too.. id rather not die.. slow down my group/pt and be more helpful in doing so.

however i know i can be outparsed i dont claim to not be so any sam reading this .. chill out.. im not saying you suck, im saying 75% of you dont have a clue and are bringing the job down in my eyes (but what i think dont matter lol) =D lol

hope that all made sence.. im mega tired right now

[Elswood]

Samurai can't Angon.

[spira]

Dude, where's my wyvern?

[Juro]

Heres the thing though (I refrain from inviting SAMS to my pts if i dont know them) SAM is a lazy job.

lol. All DDs are lazy jobs. Don't say other wise. All DDs are melee for a few seconds then WS. God, KI is a breeding ground for idiots these days;;

Also, I'm not going to say SAM is better then DRG, shit is situational in terms of gear/area/mob weakness. If piercing and the SAM isn't using polearm, obviously an equally geared DRG will beat and equally geared SAM using a Hagun probably on Birds. <3 DRG in bird parties honestly.

[MrReinhardt]

Courier Carrie beats both

[Carynaira]

Dude, where's my wyvern?

Where's your wyvern dude?

[Ukko]

Colenzo had aost in the SAM forums... he was Polearm SAM/WAR and I was seigan /SAM on G.Colibri. He ate food occaisionally. Parse was close.

Liger shud get Colenzo and parse as both /WAR ;-x

[Leerhew]

lol. All DDs are lazy jobs. Don't say other wise. All DDs are melee for a few seconds then WS. God, KI is a breeding ground for idiots these days;;

Excuse me i didnt explicitly explain what exactly i meant by that. SAM is lazy compared to other DD jobs cuz they get pts faster than most (u know this to be true) in turn making them level faster than their intelligence can keep up with and consequentially we have the SAMs that think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and can dominate any and every mob and any and every party member then play the blame game when they kill themselves repeatedly and call the rest of the party nabs, noobs, idiots w/e. In reality its their leveling faster than they can learn the job or god forbid learn how to manage hate. SOOO this makes them lazy in the fact they chose SEs golden child job and speed lvld it not learning game mechanics.

In meripo i never go all out i HAVE to hold back some otherwise i would be tanking all the time and we drgs know what a drg tank is capable of ><.

[Rockon]

Excuse me i didnt explicitly explain what exactly i meant by that. SAM is lazy compared to other DD jobs cuz they get pts faster than most (u know this to be true) in turn making them level faster than their intelligence can keep up with and consequentially we have the SAMs that think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and can dominate any and every mob and any and every party member then play the blame game when they kill themselves repeatedly and call the rest of the party nabs, noobs, idiots w/e. In reality its their leveling faster than they can learn the job or god forbid learn how to manage hate. SOOO this makes them lazy in the fact they chose SEs golden child job and speed lvld it not learning game mechanics.

In meripo i never go all out i HAVE to hold back some otherwise i would be tanking all the time and we drgs know what a drg tank is capable of ><.

Stop trolling, you aren't good at it.

[Dragonhope]

lol. All DDs are lazy jobs. Don't say other wise. All DDs are melee for a few seconds then WS. God, KI is a breeding ground for idiots these days;;

Also, I'm not going to say SAM is better then DRG, shit is situational in terms of gear/area/mob weakness. If piercing and the SAM isn't using polearm, obviously an equally geared DRG will beat and equally geared SAM using a Hagun probably on Birds. <3 DRG in bird parties honestly.

Just a small correction my good man. I would like to change "All DDs are lazy jobs" into "All DDs can be lazy at their job" instead.

Lazy melee:
- Engages, does something else and comes back to WS every now and then.
- Uses skills available only once in a while and doesn't keep track of it.

Not-so-lazy melee:
- Engages and keeps track of mob's health, TP of other party members, etc.
- Keeps track of their skills available and uses them at appropriate times.


Very easy to switch between being lazy and not-so-lazy. I'm a lazy melee if the PT isn't as fast as I like it. ^^;

[Zeberdee]

I agree with Path on this one also. Seems all the "average" SAMs on Fairy all have Hagun And Haub +1. Let's be honest here though an average SAM (in SAM terms) and an average DRG (those using Tourney Lance and wearing AF) do not compare ddwise.

A lot of this I believe is due to the lack of good equip buyable on the AH. Most of drgs good gear takes a fair amount of work to get (ie Heca, Homam, Askar, and even assault gear not to mention the Ares) whereas any SAM can walk up to AH and buy the 1337 gear assuming he/she has the money and BAM all of a sudden hes a 1337 SAM that will out DD the average DRG.

Heres the thing though (I refrain from inviting SAMS to my pts if i dont know them) SAM is a lazy job.
Everyone loves you for DD so when there are 50 DD looking for pt and 2 mages the SAMs will and do get the invites. Tack on the availability of their uber gear and this adds up to a lazily easy lvld job that can outperform most and attracts many players who wont put in the work and dont care if their skills arent the greatest b/c everything has come so easy to them. DRGs on the other hand must and do work their tales off even for their mediocre gear and consequentially these players seem to me to have a more vested interest in their skill and performance.

fake scenario EX: SAM rips off solo skillchain third eye meditates and rocks another and usually lives to see the other side of the fight.

DRG does same thing and unless super jump is up many times will die

SAMs can go all out almost all the time whereas DRG must be much more subtle and imho lends itself to breeding better all around players.

As far as DD capabilities taking 2 EQUALLY geared, skilled, merited players (1 drg + 1 sam) The SAM may come out slightly on top b/c they can WS like noones business (DAMN YOU SE AND YOUR SAMCOCKSUCKING updates) but methinks they will be ALMOST equal and you can count on the drg to win that battle once in a while at least.

The one thing that REALLY bothers me about SAMS is that they can use too many damn weapons effectively. WTF at a polearm weilding SAM outDDing a DRG on birds (hasnt happened to me as of yet ) but some uber SAM friends have come close.

LOL... Lazy job? we WS every 45 secs or so, meditate when ever its up, seigan third eye whenever we pull hate, know what WS's do what SC's.... and you call us lazy? dont get me wrong, i played drg, (68 atm) drg isnt exactly lazy either, but before you run your mouth like the typical faggot, i think you should really do some research before you start slating someones job... and as for sam outparsing/outdding ur typical drg.... not being funny, but 1/2 of drg's out there are complete noobs... from what i have seen anyway, i mean yea, u get the domaru wearing sams, but a full af drg is just PURE lol... you fail, full stop. go back to WoW...

Edit: <3 Raidon. And as for a SAM walking up 2 AH and buying "1337" gear.. yea buddy, coz Ace's Helm, Shura Haidate/Gnan(w/e that orc's name is) helm/shura haidate/usukane haidate/rajas/brutal/bushinomimi/justice torque/snow gorget/shadow gorget/swift belt/byakko's haidate are all under Auction House... Douche.

[Veyron-Garuda]

The non-lazy melee job "x" will always out-do a lazy person who's playing melee job "y" hands down.

Now, by my preference, I like Sam. Not saying anything bad about Drg at all since it's still one of my favorite melee jobs, but in most situations I prefer being on Sam.

About Sam being lazy? Far from it, it's actually one of the most active jobs. Using a merit pt as an example, if you're not voking every mob to make sure your Overwhelm bonus gets slapped on that sucka, you should be watching your Jump & High Jump timers like a hawk (Not to mention Meditate no matter what SJ) because if you're /War and not voking unless you have a good reason not to (Someone else is? Ok, line up with them!), you'll most likely be benefiting more from /Drg.

Along the lines of "a Sam lvls too fast to keep up with the knowledge of their lvl" that's probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Any job can level quickly if you've got the right amount of friends that want to level the right jobs and you're not being camped on by some g!mp pt that slows you down. Even in a pick up party, most of the time these days you won't be pting with a bunch of idiots, just learn how to make a decent party setup for your level range, find a camp, and get 'er dun!

About any melee job being lazy? Far from it, if you're being lazy, you're doin' it wrong