[Rikkitikkitavi]

A question has been on my mind for quite some time.

Which is the superior stat for Blade: Jin?

Modifiers: STR:30% ; DEX:30% According to Wikipedia

Here are 2 sets, each weighted heavily on maximizing one stat or another.

Dex

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Str

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

One leaning heavy towards Dex, the later leaning towards my STR pieces.

I could also do a mixed set, or have more ATK pieces (Okote/Shura togi/Ethereal Earring/Ulthalam's etc).

Will having a Heavy DEX build lean to higher Crit Blade: Jins, even though Wiki sais crit rate is based upon TP?
Will Having a Heavy STR build lead to higher possible "Cap" damage?
Is there a "Balance" to str/dex, I.E best to have the same + of each?

/Discuss

[pathwriter]

Tough question.

Based on Treelo's extensive use of Evisceration as a Thief, I'm inclined to believe that DEX does affect the critical hit rate of weaponskills whose critical hit rate is also affected by TP. As such, more DEX would help to push native critical hit rate (I assume merits and base rate apply here, uncertain if Senjuinrikio is accounted for but I personally imagine it is). What I've read is that somewhere around 50 DEX more than a target's AGI is needed to hit the non-merit, non-gear cap on critical hit rate. If we're talking about a 75 Tarutaru Ninja/Warrior, that's base 70 DEX. Against a Greater Colibri with 67 AGI, theory suggests that you'd need 47 DEX to cap out, but whether that is necessarily worthwhile with Blade: Jin is a different question. I suspect Studio Gobli might have some idea as to the TP mod on the weaponskill, but I cannot read Japanese.

On the other hand, though, low STR means a low fSTR and, although katana's weapon rating isn't all that impressive, there is some value to it. Similarly, you're lacking a little Attack in that DEX build which is, pardon the pun, critical to multi-hit weaponskills. I think I'd be inclined to use Byakko's Haidate and Cerberus Mantle as a decent middle ground. The rest of your slots are a little harder to quantify. I think I might lean towards DEX on boots, ring, and earring if available since it represents WS mod, Accuracy, and critical hit rate.

Nominally, you'll see a higher top-end with the STR set you posted, but you're probably going to get more consistent critical hit rate (which helps to make up for lost Attack, something to consider) with a more DEX-centric set. Personally, I'd probably go for a balanced set, but that's just my view.

[Konda]

I think the general consensus is a Mix after you have enough accuracy

[Auv]

Can you get your hands on an Haub+1? I'd swap that out with the Osode. Your STR set up looks promising in my opinion if you can get the Haub in there. I'm just kind of ehhh with the Osode on a multi-hit WS.

[Symbios]

More important than either one is accuracy, I'd say, unless you plan on soloing DCs for the rest of your life.

Generally I feel that even with capped katana merits I have a pretty hard time hitting GColibri, so I've been thinking of what changes I should make to my WS setup. I use Senj/Perdu.

TP
Head: Usukane Somen
Ears: Suppa, Brutal
Body: Haubergeon
Waist: Swift

WS
Head: Voyager Sallet
Ears: Minuet, Brutal
Body: Kirin's
Waist: Warwolf

If accuracy is a problem I use Usukane Somen instead of Voyager. I've been thinking if i should just use Haubergeon full time, and if I should bother getting Ninja Tekko +1 because I have Usukane Gote, and I find I like the extra accuracy.

[neomorpheus]

I rarely merit on nin anymore( sold my fire bomblet) ever since I got mnk and sam to 75, but here is my Jin setup. I use a mix setup.

Senjuinrikio
Perdu Blade
Bomb Core
Shura Kabuto
Breeze Gorget
Brutal Earring
Minuet Earring
Haubergeon
Nin. Tekko +1
Flame Ring
Flame Ring
Forager's Mantle
Warwolf Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Denali Gamashes

[Rikkitikkitavi]

I figured Hauby +1 was best, but I rarely use nin so probably not going to invest in one again until I get Usukane Boots.

Mixed set sounds the best to me, and those 2 sets were just maximized for a particular stat, not exactly what I would use myself. Was just showing 2 extremes.

With no merits in Katana (8/8 Gkt/Swrd 4/4 Polearm) My acc would be suffering on WS, not on TP though. I guess with a brd/cor PT acc wouldn't matter too much if the brd was madrigal and the cor was hunter's, which most do in Sam Polearm Pties.

Anyways, yes my Nin never merits or does anything remotely hard, so I probably could just max stats and not worry about Acc a whole bunch.

I was more curious as to which Stat would be superior to stack once I had sufficient atk/acc (granted I was doing something IT)

Thank you for the replies, continue posting your gear sets/thoughts

[Drace]

I've always found a mixed set to be best, and nin is one of the few jobs with enough night/ day optional gear that I use 2 sets for basic meripo Jin.

Day:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=50795

Night:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=50794

I utilize heavy dex builds on most of my multi-hit crit ws's, but still try to balance out a good bit of str as well (other than THF which is almost entirely dex focus).

For attack vs. str slots on multi-hit ws (Fenrir earring etc), my general rule of thumb is a 3 to 1 ratio. If the attack for a gear choice outweighs the best str option by 3 to 1, I generally go for the attack piece.

[Amastacia]

Acc comes first.

After that STR is better point-for-point. If you can get both, great. If you have to pick one and the amounts are even, STR is the better option provided you've satisfied the above.

Haidate are one exception in that they win pretty hard due to the sheer quantity of DEX. They're about even with Usukane pants if your Acc is already capped (with a slight advantage to Usu), otherwise they're better. Strictly speaking Hachiryu pants are best for damage but if your Acc isn't capped Haidate are still a better choice.

My primary WS set, tweaked a bit depending on what I'm doing:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=39832

If you poke around there you'll see an Att set which has been retired (never in a situation where I need it) and an Acc set used when my Acc is suffering and landing all hits comes before whoring a bit more damage per hit (I also use it for Ku since its mods suck and it has too many hits, and my only goal if using Ku in the first place is to guarantee that the WS lands in order to open Darkness).

[Rikkitikkitavi]

STR is better point-for-point. If you have to pick one and the amounts are even, STR is the better option

How do you figure? Is there a parse showing that?

5 DEX vs 5 STR (Flame Ring VS Thunder Ring) would the flame ring win or would it be even?

That's what I am trying to get at from the start .

[Anonymous12345]

Hmmm...my own experience on ninja is that full-hit Jin ranges from really low to really high doesn't matter how much str or dex I added due to the low damage on the katana. So the high spike must result from the critical or double attacks. Therefore i'm leaning more toward dex. The extra accuracy helps too.

[Kaparu]

How do you figure? Is there a parse showing that?

5 DEX vs 5 STR (Flame Ring VS Thunder Ring) would the flame ring win or would it be even?

That's what I am trying to get at from the start .

Because they're of equal benefit to WSC, while strength also supplements fSTR and attack.

[Amastacia]

Because they're of equal benefit to WSC, while strength also supplements fSTR and attack.

Bingo.

Yes, yes, DEX affects crit rate, I know. Precise effect on WSs hasn't been proven, but it's most likely analogous to TP (assumption on my part, I'll readily admit).

So in other words, unless your DEX is a minimum 35 over mob's AGI (and better yet, 40+ over) you're getting very little bang for your buck, and then there's most likely an inconvenient cap at +50.

The best-case for crit rate damage addition is when your pDIF is lower (the higher it gets, the less marginal benefit you get from adding 1 to it), which is not best-case for damage in the long run.

So basically, you need to be aiming at a particular window of total DEX (which varies widely based on what you're swinging at) to make adding more worthwhile from a crit-hit perspective. Add on top of that the fact that lower Att (not ideal) magnifies the effect of adding DEX together with the likely case that you're losing fSTR to gain crit rate, and your realistic best case is that you end up even.

Seems like a bit of a waste of time and effort to me. The occasional corner case where it might be better doesn't justify the investment when STR is almost never worse, often better, and translates more easily and usefully to a variety of other jobs.

[pathwriter]

I think what needs to be said here is that STR helps Blade: Jin be more consistent, whereas DEX permits it to crit a bit more often. If we're talking about weaker targets, a Thunder Ring might actually be appropriate as it would take less than 40-odd DEX to potentially cap out DEX-based critical hit rate. Building for Attack and STR is, in essence, banking on the worry that Blade: Jin won't crit and it works to have a higher, but less frequent, top-end damage. Building for DEX, which does help with Accuracy, too, allows the top-end to occur more often.

Honestly, I'm not really convinced that either is better, but I'd probably use STR because, you know, Flame Rings are used by a lot of jobs whereas Thunder Rings can only generally be justified for Thief and possibly Ninja, I suppose maybe Dancer, too.

I am high as fuck on pain meds so my apologies if this makes no sense. I cannot seem to sleep just yet.

[Vixiti]

I personally use Toreador's ring with the Raja which gives me the best of both worlds. If you lack a Raja's then I recommend just sticking with STR it has been more reliable for me as far as consistancy of WS damage is concerned.

1st pick: Toreador's + Raja
2nd Pick: Toreador's + Flame

Rings are only a small part to your Jin overall Damage. But what has me slamming constant 1k+ Jins on VT-IT mobs is a good combination of both DEX and STR.

Here is what seems to work for me. You can adjust it to what works for you. ^^

Shura Kabuto
PCC (Breeze seems a little overated from my experience)
Haub+1
Koga+1(night) Okotes (Day)
Raja/Toreador's
Brutal/Triumph
Byakko's haidate
Cerb Mantle
Warwolf(low EVA mobs)/ Potent belt (Higher EVA)
Fire Bomblet
Koga Kyahan(night)/(don't remember my day bewts...)

Max katana merits, crit hit rate, and STR merits and your pretty golden in my eyes. ^^

[pathwriter]

PCC (Breeze seems a little overated from my experience)

I'm going to assume that your experience is "eyeballing." Breeze Gorget provides identical Accuracy to Peacock Charm AND a damage boost. Use it.

[Vixiti]

I'm going to assume that your experience is "eyeballing." Breeze Gorget provides identical Accuracy to Peacock Charm AND a damage boost. Use it.

As I said "use what works for you". I've used the Breeze gorget off and on for years and found it around abouts the same as a PCC. Your speculation that it changes your damage noticably is a bit farfetched imo. I've ran a few tests with it and concluded no noticable change. Though tests differ from person to person.... to conclude both are good choices.

If you have a breeze and you know it works better for you, then use it. I don't really care what other people's tests say as long as I know I'm performing at MY full potential.

I recommend that people run their own tests on their own gear. Basing your gear off other people's experiences and tests that result in miniscule differences is arrogant.

[pathwriter]

Apparently YOUR full potential is below EVERYONE ELSE'S, but whatever.

[Vixiti]

Apparently YOUR full potential is below EVERYONE ELSE'S, but whatever.

lulz. I could say more but I'm not due to the fact that you'll just turn around and hit me with a negative comment about how dumb I am about a personal opinion. I'm finished with this thread. I wish you and your awesome Breeze gorget luck and may it bring you great Jin's in the future.

[pathwriter]

Opinions are not a valid substitution for facts.