[AsDraBael]

Just reading through, looking at body options for my PLD friend. Quick question though. Where is the extra 13 HP coming from on Cure III? Aurorastorm?

180 is the soft cap before race base mind comes in, with capped healing for your level. Not wearing any mind gear, my basic cure 3s do 193 by themselves. When I first hit 75 and my healing skill wasn't capped yet, it did less, but ever since it capped its been 193 pretty consistantly.

Also, clearly that nefarious dude is just here trolling, and doesn't really know anything hes talking about and just wants to cause a fight. Probably lying about having ninja too, since hes so proud of his shitty bard xp he puts it into his sig, but hes too embarrassed of his 75 ninja with 'extensive tanking experience' to put it in his sig with his monk, thief, and bard.

[Phlow]

And I have 30 enmity with no visible cure swaps, using hospitaler.

terror shield, assjamer, ritter gorget, homam hands, sattva, hercules, cerb mantle, trance belt. 4 + 7 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 30.

-5% haste on head,
Used mermaid's because multiple jobs
-4% to -6% haste on waist


I was using full haste setup, assuming you would get haste, march, madrigal for atonements (brd's in my shell do it this way). I suppose you can equip full enm and get 2xmarch, haste. Of course I knew that I couldn't construct an entire real life model in the 30 mins it took to write that one up. I would need to figure cast time for shadows, monster w.delay, average evasion rate of pld (lol), av. block rate (for tp return), av. acc rating and tp return on joyeuse, etc etc etc. Even then, I could see someone finding a flaw.

Realistically, I don't think any of us would spam cures like that - Sentinel, a few Cure IV's, and then tank like a badass. One thing this did show me is that Hospitlar is worth it. With an emn mod of .737 on HP's healed at lvl 75, a Hospiltar Earring is like +3.5enm when curing. Never bothered with it, always though Loq + Enm earring was superior.

And you're not nonstop casting shadows if you have a decent cotank because its going to be bouncing so much between you that its pretty easy to do Ni to Ni, and get in 2, sometimes more cure 3s before you have to recast.

I was meaning the nonstop casting of Cures in the first two minutes of my scenario, which looking back is moot. Since the last 3 minutes of the scenario is based on mp regeneration, you wouldn't be limited by the sheer volume of cures unless it was under the time limit of Sentinel, and even then I wouldn't be terribly worried about shadows dropping and taking a couple on the chin.

And my cure IV swap is:

Part 1:
input /equip Back "Settler's Cape";
input /equip Ring1 "Serket Ring";
input /equip Ear1 "Hospitaler Earring";
input /equip Ear2 "Astral Earring";
input /equip Neck "Morgana's Choker";

Part 2:
input /echo hp up!
input /equip Back "Gigant Mantle";
input /equip Ring1 "Bomb Queen Ring";
input /equip Ear2 "Cassie Earring";
input /equip Waist "Steppe Belt";
input /equip Neck "Ritter Gorget";

I can see this only under Sentinel though. You lose a sizeable amount of +enm on back, ring, belt, earring. I'm too tired to do the math delta under regular circumstances, but you still come out as long as you would be using something like this under sentinel.

Then it cures, and swaps back to my idle set of shadow mantle, sattva, trance, and parade gorget. Gives me a 396 cure IV, and we've begun replacing our whm with scholars in the tank party for aoe stoneskin and phalanx, and if the scholar puts aoe light weather I regularly cure 4 for over 400 and cure 3 for almost 220.

We've only had one mage so inclined to level SCH, and he's main BLM. So I'm jealous. QQ.

Your numbers work for the average paladin just breaking into endgame because they don't have the gear to pull it off, but if you have the gear to do it, its not really hard to pull off capped hate in sub 5 minutes.

Nah, I modeled the equip's pretty mid-endgame PLD, the problem was that not everything can be taken into account. Like they say, situational shit is situational. But that doesn't mean that the core of this discussion (what to get on the new Crystal gear) make the decision situational. For ACC, you have Haub+1 or Homam. For ATK, you have Haub+1 or Ares. For Refresh you have Ares. Since Atonement relies on enmity accrued, you could wear anything needed on the body (most likely +enm). Casting for enmity, however, is a bigger problem. Imagine getting +5% more hate on a Cure. Imagine finishing Uts: Ichi 5% faster (meaning more melee hits).

Meh. Choice is pretty clear for me. I already have a Haub+1 from my SAM, don't need an NQ haub without the -eva or a Haub-1 with Fast Cast for my PLD.

edit: oh yeah, had a brainfart when I wrote that. If its not something like tiamat that can potentially 1 shot you if you lag or just get lucky, I use my joyeuse. With capped haste, sushi (sushi has enmity too, yyaayyy), and that good stuff, atonements come pretty quickly.

Thank fucking god. Kap and I went on a tirade about a month ago how Atonement is changing the HNM scene and people should start using Joytoy more often. Everyone went batshit insane and said that wearing Joy would kill you. Good to see more PLD's seeing the benefits of 700+ damage at a 45% faster rate.

[AsDraBael]

See, thats why I can respect you in an argument, and that other dude is just a douche and not worth responding to anymore

I only use assjamer in the hate building stage. After hate is capped, I'll switch to turban and just aim for atonement damage and ride the top with flash and like 1 cure 3 every 30 seconds. I also don't have swift belt since the bitch never drops for me, so I'm holding out for vbelt or speed, depending on what happens first, Gil or drop.

We have a few scholars, most of them also whm, rdm, blm, or all 4. They leveled the job for the situational times its better than other jobs, like sometimes in einherjar, and lately we've been sticking them into tank and DD parties for their impressive support skills. The stoneskin and phalanx can turn a DD party on cerb from an MP sink to no problem at all, and scholar can maintain MP better than a rdm or whm with minimal help. Fire weather on the DDs also gives some strength, which is just a happy bonus.

I must have missed that particular fight about joyeuse and atonement. I used to nearly always use my Haute for everything and just save my tp for chivalry if needed, but since Atonement came out I just use joyeuse if I don't have to worry about a possible physical damage 1 shot situation. It really doesn't help my hate that much, since I cap my hate so quickly already and I only have time for 1, maybe 2 atonements in the first 5 minutes, but it does make a nice difference in kill speed, especially in slightly longer fights. It also opens up a couple low-man kills by increasing killspeed with less people, since when you only have 6 people on an HNM and you and the other tank are the only ones meleeing, tp isn't exactly a high concern.

Like I said, I'll be getting this body. The 5% fast cast is the only actual stand-out stat on this gear. The question is, whats the most useful secondary stat? For me, I'll probably end up getting attack for less 0's. Other people will be happier with accuracy or even enmity. Its a sidegrade, but a nice sidegrade since you can personalize it. It'll just be another situational body I have to lug around with me.

[Kaparu]

Players who display unwillingness to blink in any and all situations are morons until one of them manages to provide some sort of counter-argument other than "I don't need to".

Regardless of whether you're playing on a computer, XBox, Playstation, or TI83, there are no longer any targeting issues attributed to excessive equipment swapping.

/end thread

[pathwriter]

Gonna acknowledge the fact that you don't know how to read or at the very least apologize for your dreamt up ideas of what I wrote?

[Corrderio]

I don't see why it matters. As long as they're holding hate and not getting the piss beat out of them I don't care WTF they do.

[Dartalion]

Whether someone blinks or not shouldnt matter. However theres no denying the fact that blinking does boost performance and can be efficient, its fact. How much would it boost can vary imo. If you're a seasoned tank with experience, most of the time it will be a very small percent. If you are new and your gear isnt as developed, the percent could go up.

Imo the better the situation is, the less of an impact it will make, while the worse the situation is, the more you might see a difference.

Also, if ppl are blinking, I hope they have the common sense or experience to know when to blink and not to blink.

Anytime I blink, its due to me not idling in what ill be using for the JA/flash/cure etc. I dont idle in an emnity head piece, as I use turban , because 5% haste while swinging will always be doing something vs emnity, and Ill swap to emnity head piece for flash if I have enough haste w/o turban. Just because you can hit 50% cap for recast doesnt mean you shouldnt try to idle in more haste. Haste is that good. 50% haste means your swinging twice as fast, 60% means your swinging 3 times as fast.

I will admit though, even when I do have 2 bards and have enough haste without turban, I sometimes dont blink in my emnity head piece and just not blink nor macro much in. And honestly, never noticed a difference, probably at the time I was capped out(cant say for sure). But again when the situation is good, wont notice, when its bad, you will.

hito I completely agree (however I've been doing things a bit backward from the way you have by fulltiming bmask and not even bringing my turban), thankfully to my constant bitching our tank party pretty much has dual bard 24/7 now so I can get away without all the excess blinking (mostly turban, I've been idling in bmask out of sheer laziness (and to do a bit of testing) to see how much it would "make me suck" and i haven't noticed a damn bit of difference. I'm not losing hate even when people go nuts.... 15% haste in gear with double march/haste is just so easy to do (homam hands, feet, legs, v.belt), plus I have to admit (and i expect to be flamed!) I love the way bmask looks D:!

lately i've been sort of scraping my full atonement build in favor of ares body + parade for fulltime and just spamming cures, i get bored and mess around from time to time, again. Not really noticing any difference. Sure my acc with joytoy goes to hell, but atonement is becoming icing on the cake and not just the main dish. Equally, I realize not all tank's get dual bard+ rdm or brd, cor, and rdm so it lets me play around a bit more.

Back on subject. Blinking is optimal and any decent player should be doing this. Some people go overboard, hey everyone its a game, play it however you want, but don't be surprised if you get some puffed up hobo calling you a moron because your every action isn't blinking.

I believe y so cerius is in order

[Phlow]

I don't see why it matters. As long as they're holding hate and not getting the piss beat out of them I don't care WTF they do.

http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/jshindl/...-It%20works.htm

[Kaparu]

It doesn't need to be a fallacy to be idiotic.

Again, the point of this discussion forum is, for the most part, to discuss means to improve upon yourself. If you don't want to acknowledge the most basic of means to do so, I don't understand why you're here.

[AsDraBael]

Clearly for the attractive and cheerful compansionship.

[Crispleaf]

Anyone who's passionate about the white mage job has dealt with blinking for years... pretty much every single job in this game is winking out of existence with gear swaps. Be invisible if you have to; you'll still get cured just like the other 19 out of 20 jobs.

By the way, this attitude of "teach your mages how to cure" is the sort of attitude that drives the good healers away, because I certainly wouldn't want to play with someone that arrogant.

Good healing is not as easy as casting any old cure spell, any more than tanking means being a punching bag with Provoke.

It's working together that brings success. Blaming it all on the healer brings... loneliness.

[`MbS`]

you all are right, but you're taking this matter too far why the hell do you need to try so hard ._. it's so easy and simple as it is, works good, is fun, there is no need to turn any activity into some sort of retarded e-peen contest where you have to be 100% efficient like a robot or world ends ;/ it won't matter in most cases. I used to read stupid threads like these on DD forums, e-peen stuff, etc, and it was fine, but now it's here too.. ogod <.> Am I the only one facepalming at this whole thing? Did Atonement turn everyone into a retarded meathead or what?

make a few macros, either txt, normal ones or spellcast, use them, situationally change some gear, and that's it. no need to never blink, also no need to blink like a christmas tree because it's more efficient by a 0.01%. It's so fucking laughable.

[pathwriter]

That's what I've been saying, Kadas. It's more efficient to have Fast Cast on your spells (maybe, the math regarding Cures with Hospitaler/Hades might favor that over Loquacious/Hades), but it is not as though the playerbase has been having great difficulty defeating monsters, two obvious exceptions being obvious.

[`MbS`]

That's what I've been saying, Kadas. It's more efficient to have Fast Cast on your spells (maybe, the math regarding Cures with Hospitaler/Hades might favor that over Loquacious/Hades), but it is not as though the playerbase has been having great difficulty defeating monsters, two obvious exceptions being obvious.

Yeah, and that's not because tanks are gimp or whatever else, nothing the god of Atonement can help with. But yeah, I agree. And I can understand the point of macroing Hospitaler Earring when healing for many reasons, it does make sense.

[Phlow]

I just don't see the "fun" in playing a job half-assed.

The +5 Fast Cast and +5 enmity is giving you the ability to get 10% more hate out of your spells if you're spamming them. Some say they can cap hate in 5 minutes and then focus on more idle type stuff, why not cap it in 4 minutes? It would free you up for other shit a lot quicker. Too much effort to spend time on a macro?

I guess, by using that same logic, no PLD should ever have to invest in merits ever. I mean, what's 10% faster Sentinal? Pfft. Or meriting shield - What's 8 more skill HONESTLY going to do? 3% increase in block rate? So, given a 50% decrease in damage taken when blocked, you would potentially be reducing damage taken by 1.5%? Only when facing the mob, too. Wow. My Jelly Ring is envious.

I mean, as long as I'm living through my fights, right? I'm just going to bring a full alliance or three, rather than squads of low-man.

[`MbS`]

It's not half assed at all, if all the additional shit you're doing only provide a so minimal increase in your efficiency (which I said 0.01% to make the point). it's just the DD e-peen syndrome, heh. all the numbers pulled out like that, god, you seem like a politician :/ and don't exaggerate my point, just because I don't agree it doesn't mean I don't swap nor that I am not doing my job. Don't give me that shit, really.

[Phlow]

It's not half assed at all, if all the additional shit you're doing only provide a so minimal increase in your efficiency (which I said 0.01% to make the point). it's just the DD e-peen syndrome, heh. all the numbers pulled out like that, god, you seem like a politician :/ and don't exaggerate my point, just because I don't agree it doesn't mean I don't swap nor that I am not doing my job. Don't give me that shit, really.

But that's the thing - It's not just a 0.01% increase. It's closer to a 5% increase in hate gained as well as a 5% decrease in the time spent casting spells such as cure, Uts, etc. Sure, you have body pieces that give +5 enmity, but you don't have a piece that will boost both enmity and cast faster as well as improve recast times.

Liken it to my example, let's say you cap hate a full minute early. Don't you think you could squeeze out an Atonement without having to worry about nonstop cure macros?

[`MbS`]

What the hell are you talking about? I don't even know what you're saying, lol.

I never said anything in particular, I just complained about this whole atonement spam dd pld idiocy and christmas tree blinking as a whole. I obviously encourage certain gear swaps and have always used them aswell.

many minor things I've read of are a 0.01% increase which will mean absolutely nothing. Some other gear swaps and choices happen to be useful and I make use of them too. Plus all this math anywhere which means absolutely nothing when you're tanking, unless you spend your time calculating your VE, CE, whatever else. It's good to have a rough idea of what you should do and how to play, but meh as I said, this is just taking it too far for argument's sake.

[Eurlin]

many minor things I've read of are a 0.01% increase which will mean absolutely nothing.

Many Minor things can add up to 1% 2% and so on. which is the point he is making.

It's not hard to realize that a minor benefit adds up really fast

Fast Cast and Emnity is by far the best options because you can idle (As said many times) in better TPing gear after all your casting is set and you've reached cap alot faster.

I don't understand why you aren't grasping that fact. Sure whatever you do works, but if it works better it's always smarter to take that lane isn't it?

it's like using a rubber mallet to bang in a nail sure it works but a regular hammer would work alot better and faster. When you are given two options for absolutely no extra effort..why not pick the easier one?

[pathwriter]

Kadas is not saying that there's anything wrong with being more efficient, he's objecting to how people like Phlow and Kaparu are RRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEE about it. If someone disagrees with their assessment that Fast Cast and Enmity are the only things a Paladin should get out of Nuevo Coselete, it results in a long diatribe that, when examined from the other end of a ten-foot pole, essentially amounts to a claim that Paladin is incapable of doing its job without that specific combination. Of course we all know that is neither true nor what they're trying to say, but the sheer metaphorical volume they put into their words greatly over-estimates the impact that 5% Fast Cast (which, by the way, we're not sure if that's going to be a 5% reduction in Cast Time or Recast Time since SE has never indicated these percentages before) will have. It helps. It helps on Homam Cosciales, too, but a Paladin can do his job and do it well with Aurum Cuisses or Valor Breeches or even Iron Ram Breeches.