[Skorn]

Ok so i've been leveling blm, recently got to 46 (one level till moldy! ^^) and started looking ahead on what kinda gear i should be getting. This being my first mage job to pass 37, there are things i cannot stand. "Cannot Equip Headgear?!" WTF -.- This being said is shaman's -really- better than , say : Seer's+1/Blm AF hat and a Justaucorps +1 ? I've seen so many arguments for both sides, would just like a more thought out answer thanks in advance.

[rambus]

Ok so i've been leveling blm, recently got to 46 (one level till moldy! ^^) and started looking ahead on what kinda gear i should be getting. This being my first mage job to pass 37, there are things i cannot stand. "Cannot Equip Headgear?!" WTF -.- This being said is shaman's -really- better than , say : Seer's+1/Blm AF hat and a Justaucorps +1 ? I've seen so many arguments for both sides, would just like a more thought out answer thanks in advance.

yes stay away form shaman... far away

its only good for like 2 levels 56, 57 w/e ( when you can't wair justa just yet.)

[Skorn]

Thanks Bite, really wasn't lookin forward to campin that thing lol, just didn't seem worth it too me.

[Nerull]

Heh... me and Rambus(Bite) used to argue about this question like 4 years ago. I was right then and I still am today:

Shaman's > hat + body!!!








**The most honest answer is shit is situational. If you're overcamping and need accuracy, Shaman's is better. If you're fighting stuff more your level and not seeing many resists, hat + body is slightly higher max damage. If you don't feel like nitpicking, wear whatever you want until 68**

[Daggermaster]

shamans XP

[rambus]

Heh... me and Rambus(Bite) used to argue about this question like 4 years ago. I was right then and I still am today:

Shaman's > hat + body!!!








**The most honest answer is shit is situational. If you're overcamping and need accuracy, Shaman's is better. If you're fighting stuff more your level and not seeing many resists, hat + body is slightly higher max damage. If you don't feel like nitpicking, wear whatever you want until 68**

expect when i level i did not have resist issues even on ITs i had HQ staffs then and i did not even have to use af gloves. there is a reason why i had that agurment. and i still sand by what i say. I had everything, but didnt need ot use them

and wtf nerull @ calling me that...

[Byrthnoth]

The question has been answered so I'm hijacking this thread with a question of my own.

I've recently started working on my own Black Magic Damage calculator and have a few questions about how damage is calculated.

1) Is Spirit Lantern really +10% Magic Damage? I seem to remember that it is, but can't remember where in the equation it's factored in.

2) MB damage bonus goes up with the number of weaponskills performed. So, 2 WSs is a 30% damage boost, 3 is a 35% damage boost, etc. Does this cap at 50% with 6 Weaponskills performed like potential skillchain damage caps? It seems like a nice number to stop at, but I can't remember seeing it written.

3) What is the INT of Ebony Puddings? If it's a range, just tell me what the range is.

4) Will Sorcerer's Tonban also really subtract if it's the wrong day for the spell? On that note, is the negative cap also -35%?

5) When I compare the best imaginable nuking set to Morrigan's (only latents are Uggly + Sorc. Ring, which are used for both), generally Morrigan's comes out 0-5 damage ahead depending upon the INT value of the target. Thing is, due to all the Floor()s, it's kind of random where the difference is. Like, a 90INT monster takes the 1 more damage from Bliz 4 in Morri, but a 91INT monster takes 3 more damage in Morri, then a 92 INT monster goes back to taking 1 damage more again. Morrigan's does still have 10 MAcc and MP over the other set, but I'd almost swear I came out with a larger difference than that the last time I did this. What am I doing wrong? Here are the gearsets if you need them, Taru BLM/RDM with 5 INT merits, 5 potency merits, and Cream Puff with Bliz 4 are assumed:
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=810
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=811

6) Potency Merits are 2 Magic Attack Bonus each and not 2% each, right? I seem to remember some debate on that but I can't remember who won in the end.

7) After what dINT does it start to be half as effective to add INT? I don't think it was a value I've really hit, but it'd be nice to know for reference.

8) A Bliz IV from a Taru BLM/RDM with 5 INT merits, a Cream Puff, 5 Potency Merits, Spirit Lantern Active, on a 90 INT magic-neutral target does 1293 damage based on my calculator with the first set, and 1294 damage with the second set. Correct?

9) Vidohunir, the new BLM Weaponskill, supposedly gives MDB-10% to the target. Does this make MDB = .9 for most neutral monsters? Has anyone we know actually tested it?

10) http://ffxigear.com/?ref=822 with the same Taru BLM/RDM, buffs, 90 INT magic-neutral target, Spirit Lantern Active, and this time with a +50% MB damage skillchain and double weather + day + region is right + New BLM WS (assuming it's MDB-10%) Burst II MB would do 4364 damage. You could obviously get more INT through SV Etudes (another 48 INT?) and could Burn the target (-15 stat). This would increase dINT by 63 and would give, by my calculations, a 5057 damage MB. Are any of these numbers working out for other people?

[rambus]

1. as far as i know

2. as far as i know, something i wanted to test.

3. 89, I actally said this before that BG calc was out. so if you want proof it is 89 someone said it as well:

Yes you can know exactly what their INT is by nuking them and calcuating the INT corresponding to the damage.

No ebony puddings have exactly 89 INT.

4. there is no pently that i know of, however there is still of a pently of 35%, oppose weather is -25% and day is -10%

5. me and omni and me and cookies ( i think a bit later was kind of a bitch fest though) have seen this and notied this, however i do not think omni used maats cap and cookies was using rep circlet in mix set.

6. me, and it was hardly a debate just some people saying " i think it is 2%" but never gave testing or numbers, its 2 mab

7. it has to do with the base of the spell, but you never hit it past stone II. ill edit this with the BG foruma thread that talks about it
http://bluegartrls.com/forum/64726-magic-d...calculator.html

Originally Posted by Rena View Post
At a certain point above the target's INT, you gain half the effect from adding more INT, so for Stone I, you'd get 1 damage from 2 points of INT rather than 1 damage per point of INT. At 3x this difference, adding more INT becomes completely ineffective. This point is at whatever the next higher spell's base damage is; so Stone I has it's soft cap at 16 (Water I's base damage) dINT, and the hard cap at 16*3 = 48 dINT, Water I has the caps at 25 and 75 and so on.

For non-black magic, the caps seem to be taken from black magic spells; Banish and Banish II have caps at the same values as Water and Water II. Helices have their soft cap at 78, same as Thunder I.

8. no idea can you give me exact stats? and puddings are +25% when you are doen and again they are 89 int not 90.

9. i would assume so, i do not have the ws

10. too much for me, this is where you get into that cookie argument thread where you want full moon ( fenirir + cor 11 roll+ night for 10% dream shroud+ BLU)
http://killingifrit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=176080

also 1/16 "resist" question:

http://killingifrit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173101

there was also a thread somewhere i made questioning the order of the formula ( this is importent to get right because of how SE just takes the decmals off each calculation. the concludion is that the order on wiki was right and something i wanted ot ask kaeko if he ever tested it. sadly he got banned and never got in touch with me. /sigh.
http://killingifrit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=175751
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage

this also shudests based on the order the MB bonuses are not added with the MB it self? i do not remember the result when i tested it and a good question would be if sors hands and earing adds the the MB bonus cap.

[shigo]

I'm sorry Byrthnoth, but normally I'd jump the gun to answer such questions(damage calculations), but right now I'm not feeling it.

1) Yes

3) range: 89-90

4) hmmm idk but does it really matter? They should be only swapped in during then swapped out after nuking

9) idk

Rambus pretty much answered everything else

If you need accurate answers to your damage calculations I'd use this to double check my work. I used it then and it works nicely and most importantly accurate.

Probably after seeing it, you'll want to halt your project >_>;;;




/welcome back Rambus

[Byrthnoth]

Thanks a lot! Got most of my questions down on the first reply.

About the MB bonus items:
I'm not sure what they do. I only had Sorcerer's Gloves on Byrthnoth for about a week before I was banned, and I never had a skillchain to go with them. FFwiki seemed fairly adamant that they multiply the bonus given by 5% instead of adding 10% potency. It even went so far as to give the way to calculate it (saying Static and Sorc. Gloves had to be calculated separately). I don't know if it's right and I don't know where they got the info from, but it's so specific and random that I'd almost bet it's correct.

For question #5:
Ah, okay. I was just trying to make the best possible set (without Tamas, I just realized) that didn't rely on non-forceable latents. Uggly Pendant -> Prudence Torque helps Morrigan's out, but it isn't really by that much.

For question #8:
Blizzard IV with HQ Staff, Spirit Lantern on, 5 INT merits, Cream Puff (INT+7), 5 potency merits, and an INT89 Ebony Pudding Target (Neutral day, Neutral weather)
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=810 - Should have (32+43+10 = 83 MAB) - Should have 141 INT - 1873 Damage
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=811 - Should have (32+45+10 = 85 MAB) - Should have 138 INT - 1875 Damage



Sorry Shigo! You replied while I was typing, lol. That site that you linked actually seems to cap damage after a certain point for BLM. I'm guessing it's hitting the 50% effective INT cap? Well, if the damage doesn't cap then it's probably possible to do over 5000 damage to Fafnir with a Burst II.
That actually raises another question for me, does anyone know how the MB bonus for AMII is calculated?

[rambus]

I'm sorry Byrthnoth, but normally I'd jump the gun to answer such questions(damage calculations), but right now I'm not feeling it.

1) Yes

3) range: 89-90

4) hmmm idk but does it really matter? They should be only swapped in during then swapped out after nuking

9) idk

Rambus pretty much answered everything else

If you need accurate answers to your damage calculations I'd use this to double check my work. I used it then and it works nicely and most importantly accurate.

Probably after seeing it, you'll want to halt your project >_>;;;




/welcome back Rambus

ya I showed them the thread that calc is in, i wonder if they use the right order though and a few other nit picky thigns i bought up here like the MAB cap and such. stuff no oen really tested.

Thanks a lot! Got most of my questions down on the first reply.

About the MB bonus items:
I'm not sure what they do. I only had Sorcerer's Gloves on Byrthnoth for about a week before I was banned, and I never had a skillchain to go with them. FFwiki seemed fairly adamant that they multiply the bonus given by 5% instead of adding 10% potency. It even went so far as to give the way to calculate it (saying Static and Sorc. Gloves had to be calculated separately). I don't know if it's right and I don't know where they got the info from, but it's so specific and random that I'd almost bet it's correct.

For question #5:
Ah, okay. I was just trying to make the best possible set (without Tamas, I just realized) that didn't rely on non-forceable latents. Uggly Pendant -> Prudence Torque helps Morrigan's out, but it isn't really by that much.

For question #8:
Blizzard IV with HQ Staff, Spirit Lantern on, 5 INT merits, Cream Puff (INT+7), 5 potency merits, and an INT89 Ebony Pudding Target (Neutral day, Neutral weather)
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=810 - Should have (32+43+10 = 83 MAB) - Should have 141 INT - 1873 Damage
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=811 - Should have (32+45+10 = 85 MAB) - Should have 138 INT - 1875 Damage

for now you are on your own, all i will say is i did something simmlaur as this for comparing something about 3 int vs 2 mab with mix set and morr set. i forget the damage i got. I really cant put the time in this atm my back hurts i cant sit for long

[Byrthnoth]

I'm 2 damage off from the magic damage calculator Shigo linked when I use my spreadsheet to calculate it (and drop the Spirit Lantern because they give that option.) On one hand, it's only 2 damage, but on the other . . . . 2 damage seems to be the difference between full Morrigan's and the best alternative. Oh well! I'm pretty sure that I'm doing all the calculations (and associated flooring) in the order that ffxiclopedia does it, so I guess the only option would be to test it in game.

[rambus]

I'm 2 damage off from the magic damage calculator Shigo linked when I use my spreadsheet to calculate it (and drop the Spirit Lantern because they give that option.) On one hand, it's only 2 damage, but on the other . . . . 2 damage seems to be the difference between full Morrigan's and the best alternative. Oh well! I'm pretty sure that I'm doing all the calculations (and associated flooring) in the order that ffxiclopedia does it, so I guess the only option would be to test it in game.

sounds like an order conflict, remember you drop decmal after each calc,

it is possible they use a different order, i do not think the beleave staff is actally first. ( think it may be i did a few order testings)

[[Cookies]]

remember you drop decmal after each calc

I'm pretty sure that I'm doing all the calculations (and associated flooring) in the order that ffxiclopedia does it.

Flooring is the same as dropping the decimal.

(edited for clarity)

[Gyth]

Flooring=/='drop decimal'

Your nukes land for negative damage often?

[rambus]

Your nukes land for negative damage often?

I do not get that quote or yours .>.>

[Gyth]

Cookies was saying that flooring is not the same as dropping the decimal.
But for positive numbers they are the same.

Floor(2.7) = 2
Floor(-2.7) = -3

[rambus]

idk about cookies I just didn't get what you meant, thanks.

[[Cookies]]

Cookies was saying that flooring is not the same as dropping the decimal.
But for positive numbers they are the same.

Floor(2.7) = 2
Floor(-2.7) = -3

No I wasn't. I meant.

Flooring =/= 'dropping the decimal' means they are the same.
Flooring != 'dropping the decimal' means they are different.

[Gyth]

Flooring =/= 'dropping the decimal' means they are the same.

When I'm writing an equation by hand, an equal sign with a slash through it means 'not equal'.

I'll assume thats real notation in some computer language, but it seems very counter intuitive.
(what language??)

idk about cookies I just didn't get what you meant, thanks.

Flooring and dropping the decimal ARE different when you're dealing with negative numbers.
Which would only be an issue for the discussion if you were somehow nuking for negative damage.


After rereading the thread I think I was just confused by the order of cookies quotes (and the odd equivalence notation).

Cookies just meant that byrthnoth didn't need to be reminded to drop the decimal because he was already flooring, right??