[soulet]

I myself was both happy & jealous !!
I can only hope SE gives us the same treatment as WHM.

It's way, WAY overdue !!
There's only 1 thing I can do atm...

/pray

[DarkRift]

I dont think were going to get a big overhaul. We may get new avatars, and a few new JA or some adjustments to how our blood pacts work. Maybe the radius of which you need to be in so they dont fail.

I think we will be happy with the changes (if we get any) but not overly excited.

[Rmiller]

I agree, I don't thing it's something we're gonna be like "OMIGAWD!!!" Over, but heck, even a small tweak to radius on bloodpacts and I'll be a happy camper lol
(I've been somewhat waiting for a change to that, there's nothing like losing 165mp on a failed bloodpact ; ; lol)

Have a great day~~
-Rin

[DarkRift]

It seems that white mages never really got a big boost or many adjustments over the years. If we were on track with white mages I dont think our ward and rages would have been seperated, or we would have gotten elemental siphon.


Now if they gave us those two updates, new avatars, and something to do with our ranges on blood pacts all at once...


well we would be spougeing all over the place like white mages are right now.

[Rmiller]

haha! You never know we might be crazily lucky and get something worth drooling over...
/em readies towel-ga

[Crispleaf]

It seems that white mages never really got a big boost or many adjustments over the years. If we were on track with white mages I dont think our ward and rages would have been seperated, or we would have gotten elemental siphon.


Now if they gave us those two updates, new avatars, and something to do with our ranges on blood pacts all at once...


well we would be spougeing all over the place like white mages are right now.

I don't know if that's necessarily true; white mages have been getting small updates here and there.

But certainly, the toughest problem white mage faced was far too many competing healers who could do their job almost as well, but with extra value-adds (Refresh, Accession, etc. etc.)

It'd be like if Scholars, Puppetmasters, and Summoners could outnuke black mages with Thunder IV... It just wouldn't seem right.

This update finally puts some punch in white mage healing that puts it back in its rightful place as premier healer. Better late than never, I suppose.

As for summoners getting more... well, I've been surprised quite a bit so far, so I don't even trust my instincts on this. I know they haven't announced all the job changes yet, so here's hoping.

[spira]

I dont think a drastic job revamp like with WHM is necessary, but i didn't think WHM needed that much either... and its getting it..
so i really dont know what SE would do to raise the efficacy of the SMN job. I onces submitted a job adjustment suggestion to SE about giving SMN stances just like other jobs were getting. It would seem even WHMs are getting stances now.. so i won't rule out the possibility of adding that to SMN..
and if that happens, it'll really be SE surprising me.. cos I won't really know what to expect anymore with changes of such proportions

its basically layering/adjusting new stuff upon old stuff without affecting everyone who doesnt want to be affected by it.. sort of.

Im happy for WHM that it will be able to secure its premiere healing job status..
and in a way this is great for some SMN (who dont like to heal) as it further displaces SMN in the healing tier..
its probably WHM > SCH > RDM > SMN now.. the thing I don't really know now is where DNC will be placed. It seems to have nothing against the top 2 white magic healers now. It also still lacks utility healer moves, like raise and reraise...

[soulet]

But comparing WHM to SMN is like comparing apples & oranges.
Or make that rotten oranges = SMN. It was kinda broken from the get go.

High avatars prep cost constrain you to certain gear, bad pet accuracy,low atk power,horrible MP costs for Bloodpacts,add to that its THE slowest class in the game ever !
And the Summoner him/herself is completely useless in the situation.
Even if you fix /merit the Pet in one department you lower or gimp the other one.
Where's the balance in that ?

When I lvl'ed WHM I never faced these kind of problems & never faced any tbh.
Now with this update was that really NEEDED ? The job was fine & solid from the start.
It was the community attitude toward WHM that pushed it way back as the primary healers & found a "solution"
for the SMN's lack of efficiency into converting them as a gimped WHM's.

But sure don't get me wrong, I have a lot of WHM friends that are ecstatic about this update and I'm happy for em.

Now... Smn shortcomings,
DISCUSS !!

[Dairyu]

being more real-time than past final fantasy titles for obvious reasons, if the dev team wants smn using their avatars more than just summon>bp>dismiss, they need some sort of incentive to do so. a stat-raise-over-time like drg wyvern got would be a good start. since mp would become a problem eventually, possibly some way to set an affinity for one avatar and then each consecutive summon keeps those stats going... once you cancel the affinity (manually, zone or death) the stats reset. you can't really bring the whole special summon/overdrive whatever argument in to play because they already have some ridiculous blood pacts.

I love smn and would love to finish getting to 75, but i'm trying to get a few more practical jobs there first :/

[Blueyes]

being more real-time than past final fantasy titles for obvious reasons, if the dev team wants smn using their avatars more than just summon>bp>dismiss, they need some sort of incentive to do so.

Hell if they wanted to do that they should have stuck with the FFX style. -.-

[spira]

i think SMN is still one of the jobs that is caught in the old balance.
back when SMN Fenrir was released and avatar damage adjusted, SMN was balanced into the system as a job that was "Slow but Powerful" but this was seen as acceptable even if there were situations where speed was required cos not all jobs suited all needs..

but then the haste revolution came about, and people realised speed could overcome minor damage shortcomings. Zerging and speedfights were thrust to the forefront and then jobs that were slow fell behind. They're still trying to play catchup.
then there were jobs that were kinda strong already, that got boosts to speed too.. and the old balance completely fell apart.

well maybe generalizing haste as the only cause for the games balance to shift would be too much, but basically the balance of the game has shifted far ahead of what it used to be.. SE has done its part for some jobs with the use of stances to balance but not overbalance.. In fact, i think the stances balances have always been the most effective way of striking new balances with jobs but offering them a variety of options.. Opportunity cost balancing, i suppose.

Another thing i've noticed is that SE wants to make it so that jobs can no longer say 'oh this is how i play, and as long as it doesnt suit the situation i might as well not come'... well not all the way, but its giving jobs more options with playstyles.. more depth and new facets to jobs so that they arent just stuck to single functions where possible..

yet SMN is still caught in the old balance, sadly.. but in the old balance it did hold on to the title of "Slow but powerful". Honestly, it still does to some extent.. so what SMN really needs is a "fast but less powerful" stance to even it out.. and probably a little more on the side, in order to push toward the new job balance...

On its own, its not a broken job but its really fallen back some.

[JudicatorAldaris]

Novel, Yes please.

Novel in July no thanks! NOWZ

[Auraeon]

SMN needs an Avatar that attacks as fast as chigoes, and only has a couple BPs, and one of those BPs could give double attack rate boost to the party's pets (like Warrior's Roll for pets.) and another BP that boosts party's pet's crit rate.

Maybe give it a couple medium damage BP's that gain power according to how much MP is consumed with perpetuation. Making you not want it to be free of perpetuation, to give it some balance.

SMN has enough buffs, and I don't think it should be stuck as a main healer with WHM sub. It just needs a form of damage that isn't so restricted by the BP: Rage timer, to make it a better as a DD in many more situations.

I still vote for Siren. Quick melee attacks using plucks of her harp to deal sonic-esque physical damage. BP version of songs to enhance party's pets. And a damaging BP or two (Silent Voice and Maiden's Cry!) that gains power with the MP that is consumed with perpetuation. gogogo~

[Shirai]

Perhaps I am a bit biased having whm at 75 too, but whm was long overdue.
The white mage job had not had anything for a long time when it comes to improvements.

I am hopeful for summoner too, but improvements like whm is getting it shall not be as we pretty much had a full job overhaul already.

[Crispleaf]

Perhaps I am a bit biased having whm at 75 too, but whm was long overdue.
The white mage job had not had anything for a long time when it comes to improvements.

I am hopeful for summoner too, but improvements like whm is getting it shall not be as we pretty much had a full job overhaul already.

White mage hadn't been completely neglected.

Over the years, there's been Divine Veil, Banish III, improvement of Banish damage on undead, a couple of sets of JSE (Blessed and Nobles), a sleep spell, some decent Tier 2 merits, you might even say the scholar sub was an improvement.

But the competing healing jobs made white mage pointless outside of extreme healing circumstances (where Raise 3 would be worth tagging along). Adding higher and higher cure spells really wouldn't have mattered, so this cure-grants-you-Stoneskin boost is just what was needed. And Esuna is the right answer to the scholar's super terrific Accession + Erase trick.

I don't know that white mages will get to tag along in many more circumstances than they do already, but at least the red mages, scholars, even blue mages (and their Magic Fruit is more efficient crap) should quiet themselves over how they're the best healers (for awhile).


So, bringing it back on topic...

If SE is willing to overhaul white mage, there's hope for summoner yet. But keep in mind, white mage is a lot more popular than summoner, and healing jobs are a priority to this game... much more than whatever the heck we're supposed to be

[DarkRift]

I am all for having new avatars that dont even have a blood pact. Or if they have blood pacts keep them to a minimum. Or make it like bst where its a "Sic" command and then it performs a TP move.


Now that said... these avatars need to be fast hitting, have double attack, etc etc. I think this would be a ton of fun!


Edit:

I am pretty sure SE wont release an avatar that will be like our normal ones we have today. Its going to be something completely different. I would put money on it.

[Bheemz]

I am pretty sure SE wont release an avatar that will be like our normal ones we have today. Its going to be something completely different. I would put money on it.

Someone had previously brought up the idea of smn morphing into an avatar, I'm hoping that's what it will be. We'll find out April 8th.

[AphriniTheGreat]

It just isnt happing thats my opinion...I think it would be best to do what I have done and just completely know it is not going to happen so when it does like with my whm you are VERY VERY happy.

[DarkRift]

I doubt we are going to be morphing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYznTduWofo


but sure i guess that would be cool and create a lot of jokes.

[Bheemz]

I doubt we are going to be morphing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYznTduWofo


but sure i guess that would be cool and create a lot of jokes.

I got dibs on tyrannosaurus!