[Aeonknight]

Godin, on 06 September 2009 - 05:26 PM, said:

Read halfway through the first page and didnt see a damn thing about RDM/NIN. In a one-on-one DRG vs. RDM, NIN is easily the best sub unless the DRG is subbing RDM for diaga. Sure, the wyvern will strip your shadows quickly and let the DRG get some hits in, but it can be easily slept and DRG's Spirit Link can only wake it once every few mins lol. A good RDM will quickly react to just about anything the DRG can throw at him, and in a no-holds-barred one-on-one with a DRG, the RDM will almost definitely win. And this is coming from a career DRG who is forced to come to events on RDM. lol.

I think this point has already been driven home awhile ago. A RDM that utilizes it's tools (appropriately) will be at a much larger advantage than a DRG. Or any melee for that matter.
But a RDM that's doing that is also not busting out his joytoy, and is playing the job as it should be played: a backliner.

As for RDM/NIN, no. /NIN is a crutch, especially 1v1, and doesn't help with the mage tendencies a RDM should be demonstrating. /BLU or /PLD (probably /PLD in this case, cocoon won't be reliable if the DRG has angon) are ultimately better subs. And for the nukey RDM, /BLM is obvious. Drains are your friend.

[D-a-r-k-H-e-l-l]

Aeonknight, on 06 September 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

I think this point has already been driven home awhile ago. A RDM that utilizes it's tools (appropriately) will be at a much larger advantage than a DRG. Or any melee for that matter.
But a RDM that's doing that is also not busting out his joytoy, and is playing the job as it should be played: a backliner.

As for RDM/NIN, no. /NIN is a crutch, especially 1v1, and doesn't help with the mage tendencies a RDM should be demonstrating. /BLU or /PLD (probably /PLD in this case, cocoon won't be reliable if the DRG has angon) are ultimately better subs. And for the nukey RDM, /BLM is obvious. Drains are your friend.

I dunno... if the rdm goes /nin and sleep the drg and kills the wyvern the fights over. Anyway you look at it if its a good rdm vs a good drg I would put my money on the rdm. Drgs don't have many tools to put up a fight against casters.

[rambus]

Aeonknight, on 06 September 2009 - 03:00 PM, said:

I see a green little box around quotes now?

the old quotes

such as:

Aeonknight, on 11 April 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

<!--quoteo(post=3734067:date=Apr 10 2009, 11:47 PM:name=Tainted)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tainted @ Apr 10 2009, 11:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3734067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PLD/RDM atonement isn't that big of a deal for RDM in terms of 1v1. The PLD has to get TP first, which with out the help of Shield Mastery <b>(Why would RDM be meleeing PLD?)</b> is going to be fairly difficult. PLD resist against RDM is pretty much banking on Fealty, which any half decent RDM should be able to straight tank a PLD easily until it wears and they can land silence. That's with the PLD spamming dispel, which ultimately will slow down his TP gain as well, making atonement a non-factor since they probably won't have it before the RDM can silence and dispel.

<b>OP Scenario is dumb</b>, there is no reason for a RDM to try and melee a DRG/SAM. On top of that, why wear dusk? All the RDM has to do is land shield bash (PLD is really the only sub worth using against DRG) and land sleep...Yeah, that combo that takes roughly 3 seconds to complete ends the fight. A DRG can't do anything at that point except get nuked down.

687 DEF is nothing, only reason RDM can tank is because of phalanx. If DEF really meant the ability to tank 4 DDs with out a worry then well geared MNK/BLU would be even better.

WS silence is a joke to resist with baraero let alone barsilence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. If a RDM wants to melee a PLD they're going to eat a hefty atonement in the face, whether it be from TP gained after dispelling stoneskin or TP fed to them from shield mastery. If they play their job properly (DoT's, nukes, drains/aspir, kiting) then it becomes much harder. But this is something we've already seen, it's nothing new. And most importantly: Composure does not change a thing. lolmeleeRDM is still lolmeleeRDM.

and like Tainted said, I wouldn't bank on RDM/BLU against a DRG specifically. Remember a little thing called Angon?
let me give an example:
RDM/BLU gets to full buff, so DRG gets to meditate and wait for timer.

Fight starts, RDM starts meleeing the DRG/SAM.
I hope the RDM is smart enough to dispel seigan at this point:
Angon (there goes cocoon. you go from a 50% defense bonus to -50%)
Pop a Wyvern, Deep Breathing, Drakesbane.

Unless you're packing full darksteel with all the trimmings, chances are your stoneskin is down after Drakesbane. Just in time for that deep breathing Wyvern breath (which iirc, hurts like a bitch. Haven't fought a DRG in awhile though.) And he still has his jumps.

On the flipside though, like tainted states, RDM/PLD: sentinel will prevent you from gettin quickly ganked by angon. Can't guarentee it'll save you next time he gets TP though.

I could go ahead and post about 7 different video's of various jobs beating RDM, but I think we're all on the same page. It can be done, but it's a hell of a lot less efficient than what you're used to. Composure didn't change a thing.

[rambus]

Aeonknight, on 06 September 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

I think this point has already been driven home awhile ago. A RDM that utilizes it's tools (appropriately) will be at a much larger advantage than a DRG. Or any melee for that matter.
But a RDM that's doing that is also not busting out his joytoy, and is playing the job as it should be played: a backliner.

As for RDM/NIN, no. /NIN is a crutch, especially 1v1, and doesn't help with the mage tendencies a RDM should be demonstrating. /BLU or /PLD (probably /PLD in this case, cocoon won't be reliable if the DRG has angon) are ultimately better subs. And for the nukey RDM, /BLM is obvious. Drains are your friend.

aspir/drain spam with /sch can be fun, dark skill, recast , and cast time is boosted

[Azarall]

I fought a RDM/NIN as BLU/RDM once. Knowing which barspells to use and having gear exchanges to increase stoneskin (i know you'll penalize for this, do it before you engage). I fought a rdm/nin @ 75 and, although I can't attest that he was the best RDM I've ever seen, I won 10/10 due to good gear and knowing both jobs well. Super Jump is a life saver, and well geared a Penta Thrust and destroy a RDM. UNLESS he has Phalanx up, but even then it's possible to put him down using Jumps.

If your RDM is pro and his enfeebling magic is capped as far as it can go, there will be no competition however. If the RDM is anything less than pro its possible.

[Aeonknight]

Azarall, on 07 September 2009 - 11:13 AM, said:

I fought a RDM/NIN as BLU/RDM once. Knowing which barspells to use and having gear exchanges to increase stoneskin (i know you'll penalize for this, do it before you engage). I fought a rdm/nin @ 75 and, although I can't attest that he was the best RDM I've ever seen, I won 10/10 due to good gear and knowing both jobs well. Super Jump is a life saver, and well geared a Penta Thrust and destroy a RDM. UNLESS he has Phalanx up, but even then it's possible to put him down using Jumps.

If your RDM is pro and his enfeebling magic is capped as far as it can go, there will be no competition however. If the RDM is anything less than pro its possible.

That's pretty much the way it is for all fights. Some jobs have an advantage vs other jobs, but it will still boil down to who knows wtf they're doing. RDM can lose to DNCs, PLD can lose to NINs, that's generally what's NOT supposed to happen but it will always depend on the person behind the wheel.

[Darkin#1]

if its any sub, RDM can sub NIN and get a NI of after taking 1 hit, sleep wyvern by that time recast ichi, sleep DRG, kill wyvern, game over, simple no?

only reason a RDM would sub PLD or BLU is if they there looking for a challenge, but if they really wanna win.../nin?
well geared/experianced DRG Vs well geared//experianced RDM, RDM shouldnt loose. and if anyone is gonna argue with those comments...just dont lol

[Aeonknight]

I stand by my statement. /NIN is a crutch. Why use shadows when you can reduce and/all possible damage to single digits?

[Darkin#1]

/NIN V polearm, after wyvern is dead, you wont get touched unless something like /sam (zanshin) or brutal kicks in and you time it for a double jump or something, thats all i think of IF he gets hit :S?

[Aeonknight]

Darkin#1, on 18 September 2009 - 10:10 AM, said:

/NIN V polearm, after wyvern is dead, you wont get touched unless something like /sam (zanshin) or brutal kicks in and you time it for a double jump or something, thats all i think of IF he gets hit :S?

Which any half decent DRG produced in the last few years, will have both of those. The jumps, situational but I do believe both zanshin and DA proc on those. and he has 2. What if he has a Love Halberd!?! Hell stoneskin wearing at a bad time could put a RDM in a bad, bad position. Hence why I go w/ Utsusemi = crutch. God help you if you try to melee him!

... Or you can man up, realize just how worthwhile things like dmg mitigation is compared to utsusemi, put the joytoy away, and do the job right. For how "overpowered" your job is, I'm finding it hard for you to justify giving them any chance at all.

[Darkin#1]

Aeonknight, on 19 September 2009 - 04:23 PM, said:

Which any half decent DRG produced in the last few years, will have both of those. The jumps, situational but I do believe both zanshin and DA proc on those. and he has 2. What if he has a Love Halberd!?! Hell stoneskin wearing at a bad time could put a RDM in a bad, bad position. Hence why I go w/ Utsusemi = crutch. God help you if you try to melee him!

... Or you can man up, realize just how worthwhile things like dmg mitigation is compared to utsusemi, put the joytoy away, and do the job right. For how "overpowered" your job is, I'm finding it hard for you to justify giving them any chance at all.

ill agree 50/50, 1 thing you said that i do like: "I'm finding it hard for you to justify giving them any chance at all. " i guess it comes down t some luck with DA/Zanshin, and a bit of paying attention, anything could go wrong, but in general i think its safe to say no DRG should challenge RDM