[Simmy77]

What is the difference between Dual Wield +3 ( on the ACP Augumented body) and "Enhances dual wield effect" on the NIN af1 body. Is it just the wording or is it essentially Dual Wield +3 on the ACP and Dual Wield +5 on the NIN body? I always figuerd it would say -3 for the -3 delay .. unless im wrong here

[Follow]

the 'enhance' effect is 5% - in attack.

not a clue about this +3 or wtf ever.....


probably means the same thing

[Symbios]

There is no difference aside from the percentages (3% and 5%).

[draugo]

imo

Dual Wield 5 < Dual Wield 3, Double attack 2, dex 5, str 5, agi 5. plus a dnc and thf could get use out of it too.

[evilpaul]

You'll probably get better mileage out of Acc+10 than DA+2%.

[Soupbowl]

You'll probably get better mileage out of Acc+10 than DA+2%.

I think so too.

[Symbios]

You'll get more mileage not having to stare at your character wearing such ugly armor. =P

In all seriousness I guess I'll get Fast Cast and...I guess evasion, for Utsusemi casts. I'm already going for Usukane stuff for TPing, so eh.

And yeah, I'd say Mirke definately trumps Ninja Chainmail +1. Latter has the same DEX+, but accuracy +10 will probably more than make up for the +2% delay you're getting.

[TenPounds]

stiLl duNNO, stuck betWeen dual wield n double attack

n ... well wut wud be the main purpose for thIS gear?!?!

i use HauBy for DD/Ws
SH for main tanking...
so... iono
HEY SOUPBOWL FOUGHT NEx To You in BeSEIGed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nattack]

3 DW = 3% delay reduction
Nin AF = 5%.

Really, I'd just want mirke waldecors for fast cast/call beast swap in

though if there were counter on it, itd be pure win

[Ashokan]

stiLl duNNO, stuck betWeen dual wield n double attack

Dual Wield is going to outperform Double Attack hands down. Dual Wield is like haste, the more you have the bigger impact it makes and you have 30% before Suppa.

2% double attack isn't going to be mind blowing, if you have a Brutal Earring, it's not even half that. Store TP/Subtle Blow might even be a better deal. I think if you are going for a damage top, Dual Wield + Accuracy is going to be the best top hands down.

And yeah, I'd say Mirke definately trumps Ninja Chainmail +1.

Pretty much, but any time your accuracy is over roughly 92% (see math below) with AF+1, then AF+1 would beat it. So... It's not worth it if you use sushi, don't want to try meat and therefore have the accuracy to maintain 92% on almost everything. Obviously not worth it if you think this is too marginal of an increase for this ACP body to be used for. Of course, I think they added these bodies to be marginal increases in certain situations for most jobs.

With Mirke:
417 delay (senju/perdu) * .65 (35% haste) * .62 (38% dual wield w/ Suppa & mirke) = 168.051
3600 (1 minute) / 168.0651 delay = 21.4 rounds per minute
21.4 * 95% (capped accuracy) = 20.35 landed rounds per minute not counting DA, blah blah...

With AF+1
417 delay (senju/perdu) * .65 (35% haste) * .60 (40% dual wield w/ Suppa & AF) = 162.63
3600 (1 minute) / 162.63 delay = 22.136 rounds per minute

Therefore you need about 91.9% (20.35 / 22.136) accuracy to match the landed rounds per minute of 3% DW & Accuracy. That's before the STR+5 and a very slightly larger TP return.

(obviously haste/delay uses fractions when multiplying, so it's not totally accurate)

Of course, if 10 accuracy is roughly 5% accuracy, so the Mirke is better whenever Accuracy isn't capped with Mirke. In addition, it may allow you to eat meat more, so... yea.

In all seriousness I guess I'll get Fast Cast and...I guess evasion, for Utsusemi casts.

I think that's the better deal, too. Although maybe enmity+5 too, then you can replace Arhat's body for non-melee tanking, if you don't get hit much.

[Amastacia]

In my opinion there are two basic choices for NIN bodies.

1.) Acc +10, DW+3. If your Acc isn't capped, Acc is the most valuable damage-enhancing stat you can add. DW+3 is nice because of the aforementioned increasing returns.

2) Enmity +5/Fast Cast +5. New tanking body, relegating the Arhat's+1 to a -dmg macro.

Haubergeons are inexpensive enough that using your ACP body to emulate one is stupid.

Evasion is stupid, because of SH.

DA is stupid because of Acc and DW being options.

RAcc is stupid because SE refuses to add useful shurikens.

And so on.

[Soupbowl]

I am pretty split on the 2 options you are talking about. My ls is small and we low man things. So I think i'll go with the fast cast setup. But it would be nice to have a chance with meat on ninja.

[Skorn]

workin on the missions now and i was thinkin maybe EVA and Fast Cast for a new tank piece so i could stop staring at my SH so much =/ besides i got Koga for tp

[Ashokan]

workin on the missions now and i was thinkin maybe EVA and Fast Cast for a new tank piece so i could stop staring at my SH so much =/ besides i got Koga for tp

I guess I can see using Evasion and Fast Cast if you are a serious solo or duo person, I still think Enmity and Fast Cast would be better. Then you have a body for /drk tanking and you can still macro it on casts for soloing. I guess I can understand if you really hate how SH looks. I'm probably bias because I had a friend who quit sign a SH+1 for me, so I will never get rid of it.

And Koga isn't that great for TP. I mean, it's okay, but unless you serious troubles with shadows Haub is far better. And if you have accuracy, AF is better. In terms of speed/dot output, dual wield gives ninjas roughly the same enhancement as haste.

[Skorn]

I guess I can see using Evasion and Fast Cast if you are a serious solo or duo person

not necessarily solo/duo but usually if i get to dust off my nin, there is no more than 4 people in the party, otherwise there is usually a pld/nin tank and i go on war.

basically just tryin to find something worth doing with this ACP armor

Don't crush meh dreamz!!!

[_Vivik_]

For the ACP body i just added the Acc+10 and Att+10 to use in place of
my Haubergeon for WS's, after some thought nothing else really seemed
worth it. Cant really use for TP, it's not a mach compared with Togi for TP.
And using to much Duel Wield delay down affects the tp/hit so, it's "+" to one,
and a "-" to another effect!

Meh choose what ever makes you happy tho!

[Skorn]

Correct me if i'm wrong but, Wouldn't adding 10 EVA to the pre-existing 5AGI make this slightly better than SH+1 for evasion?

[Symbios]

By 0.5 evasion?

I'll take my 12 accuracy, thanks.

[Aleera]

See, I was debating in the BLU forums if DW+3 was worth having, and they all said with all the haste we get it's worthless.. Now I'm reading here it's valuable. >.> lol I'm wondering now if this is worth getting for BLU now that I'm reading this.. Btw, if you're curious, with my current haste build I'm only at 17% in haste gear with suppa atm (Walahra turban, homam hands, homam legs, swift belt, enkidu's feet) and should have another 1% after I get my homam feet.. I usually get hasted from WHM/RDM for another 15%, and I'm rarely in a situation where I get BRDs haste.. If not I haste myself with refueling (10% haste). So, I'm curious with all you DW experts, what your opinion would be. Worth it to get DW+3 on mirke? (On a side note, I'm either finishing DNC or NIN to 75 after I get my maat's cap, if that helps sway your decision any.)

[Skorn]

ok so if you went with 10 eva and 10 acc, it'd be all-around-better than a SH+1