[Ddbone]

Let's say I have a pl so I don't need to voke, or I'm doing nyzul with a set, and we just bounce hate between DDs. How do you think /drg would pan out compared to /war, with 5% haste earring of course.

Please dont destroy me if this has been discussed

[Kaparu]

Until 50, sure. Afterwards, no.

Berserk and Double Attack are too necessary for Ninja.

[rambus]

Until 50, sure. Afterwards, no.

Berserk and Double Attack are too necessary for Ninja.

same with /rng

its for acc bonus vs attack bouns + jump

[pathwriter]

I would not say that Berserk and Double Attack are necessary, but I will say that they're going to outperform Haste +5%. Also, let's be very clear, Provoke is an absolutely necessary thing in any situation where one is going to be facing lots of relatively weak enemies, which means merits and Nyzul without question.

[Vax]

Any time you have someone chain pulling, provoke is an absolute necessity. If the other 2 jobs have voke, then you are set to not use it lol.

It's not even to the point of needing someone to tank, it's to make the mob sit still for a sec so you can decimate it without it running away.

As for /drg on nin, it's a fun job combo. It'd be interesting to see a ninja w/ crab sushi at birds with double march/minuet and max haste/DW.

turban, haidate, dusk gloves, fuma , swift = 20% (non HQ gear) + 5% ear would get you almost capped haste. Toss in some HQ shit like v.belt and replace feet with usukane and you are maxed out. 5% haste on top of max v. zerk.. idk.

go parseeeeee!!

[SolAcension]

It's really hard to say, you guy's are forgetting that it's not just 5% haste, It's also 10 attack and accuracy. In the long run it evens out for the most part, with some cases, /Drg actually coming out ahead. In a situation like merit's try it, it's fun, it does alot better than most would give it credit for. It's been proven time and again that even at 75 /drg is comparable to /war for dd purposes.

[Symbios]

would not say that Berserk and Double Attack are necessary, but I will say that they're going to outperform Haste +5%. Also, let's be very clear, Provoke is an absolutely necessary thing in any situation where one is going to be facing lots of relatively weak enemies, which means merits and Nyzul without question.

While it doesn't work in Merits, /DNC is quite useful in Nyzul depending on your setup. Animated Flourish is pretty fucking useless though, so I almost never build up finishing moves- it's only good for the start of a fight to get him facing you, but after that you should use other tools to build hate. /DNC sucks for boss runs though, so I wouldn't use it there.

[Konda]

It's been proven time and again that even at 75 /drg is comparable to /war for dd purposes.

yeah, for 2h jobs, and only in high haste situations. Ruke was the one who put the idea forward to the mainstream, but he has Amano, and just about every HQ piece of equipment ever.

when you're getting attack songs/rolls and have HQ meat on, berserk wont make as much of an impact on GKT weaponskills. (especially not y/g/k)


compare this with ninja:

how much impact does berserk have on Jin? how much impace does double attack have on Jin?
how much impact does berserk have on melee swings? using the second lowest damage weapon in the game, NIN kinda need all attack they can get imo.

in high haste/ideal situations it might be comparable, but I'm not sure it'l be anything to write home about.

[Ashokan]

I've thought about this before myself, and my conclusion was it isn't worth it. While /DRG can be great for some 2-hand jobs, the complication for Ninja is dual wield and earrings. People who strive to make their ninjas damage output as high as possible already have two earring that increase the amount of hits over time: Brutal + Suppa.

To break it down, lets take the most extreme example, you have max haste from magic:

/drg with max magic haste & 25% haste from 20% plus drg ear. (remember haste ear replaces brutal)
417 delay (Senju/Perdu) * .3125 (remainder of 43.75% + 25%) * .6 (remainder of dw + af body + suppa) = 78.1875 ==> 3600 (1 minute delay) / 78.1875 ==> 46.04 rounds per minute

/war with max magic haste & 20% haste
417 delay (Senju/Perdu) * .3625 (remainder of 43.75% + 25%) * .6 (remainder of dw + af body + suppa) = 90.6975 ==> 3600 (1 minute) / 90.6975 ==> 39.69 rounds per minute * 1.15 (10% double attack + 5% brutal) ==> 45.65 rounds per minute

Not a whole lot of difference in a max environment. With max haste it's basically: jumping vs. berserk + warcry. If you had berserk up with roughly 46 rounds per minute, my opinion is you'd bury the damage from jumps.

Conversely, if you have only mage haste, /drg is actually slower:

/drg = 417 * .6 (haste 15%, gear 25%) * .6 ==> 150.12 ==> 3600 / 150.12 ==> 23.98 rounds per minute
/war = 417 * .65 (haste 15%, gear 25%) * .6 ==> 162.63 ==> 3600 / 162.63 ==> 22.14 * 1.15 ==> 25.46 rounds per minute

Since haste gets better the more you add, this is no surprise, so basically: Does jumping beat berserk + haste + 1-2 extra rounds per minute. I'm not taking the time to add in march + haste, but it's pretty much the same deal, only slightly smaller gap with /war ahead.

Honestly, I think if you're really serious about maxing out in this manner, it's probably more advantageous to use /war with Windower with SpellCast + AutoExec and with your latent ring going on every time you fall below 75%.

Now, /drg would gain a round or two more in comparison to /war if you don't have a Suppa or you don't have a Brutal, because you wouldn't be sacrificing one of the ears. I'm not sure that's enough to tip the scales for raw damage output, but it's more viable. I'd never do it, but to each his/her own.

Note: I did not use fractions, split the weapons back up or truncate equations so the examples are not exact, but close enough to show the example.

[Ddbone]

Sorry I'm pretty noob at ninja, but I do have other melee jobs. Does ninja's DW work in that it reduces TP return as it's stacked? or is it already floored or something? (I definitely see the point that ear slots are taken. I've got ethereal suppa wyvern and brutal).

I guess I'm just weird for some reason I love jump haha.... I'll probably keep subbing drg just cause I find it so fun hahaha.... good to know I wont be total gimp sauce from doing it.

[Ashokan]

Does ninja's DW work in that it reduces TP return as it's stacked?

Your weapon delays are combined, then the delay is reduced by your dual wield % and the new delay is what TP is calculated per each hit.

So, yes, it does reduce TP, and there is currently no floor. However, the way it is structured, it is advantageous to stack it, especially considering how much native delay reduction you have.

[evilpaul]

If you're in Nyzul you could use an Imperial Ring for some extra Haste too. D: