[maliante]

Ok don't know if this was discussed already , but me and my friends had a discussion and couldn't agree . If a dancer fully merited could out DOT a thief and beat the thief in weapon skills.

we not talking about a thief with relic weapon , just a thief fully merited with homan and all the right gear.

all view point would be greatly appreciated. thank you

[Roofus]

Not really sure what you're getting at, but DNC fully merited is pretty sick. I know their are some guys with full eva setup and AFv2 body that have solo'd Charybdis.

[Symbios]

In a group setting, I can't see a DNC outdamage a THF, if the THF has a damn clue what he's doing (It also depends on what monster it is though).

In a solo environment, given that the mob in question doesn't allow hide, probably.

[maliante]

well we were in a merit pt and the dancer was pulling off 1400 dancing edge on birds, he said with dancer having 50% double attack rate a thief triple attack wouldn't come close to his dot , even if the thief had it merited

[Saniiro]

Dancer wasn't ever really meant to be a heavy damage dealing job... I don't see them ever out damaging THF. That would be like RDM outnuking BLM, just kind of pointless.

well we were in a merit pt and the dancer was pulling off 1400 dancing edge on birds, he said with dancer having 50% double attack rate a thief triple attack wouldn't come close to his dot , even if the thief had it merited

I guess I can swallow that, but in most things I doubt it would work out like that. Merit mobs are an independant case. I'd be interested in being proven wrong, though. Would be nice to have a reason to level Dancer past 37 .

[Arkley]

In a solo environment, given that the mob in question doesn't allow hide, probably.

In a solo environment, almost certainly not, as the DNC's TP will be spent on keeping themself alive and various steps, whereas THF's will be spent on WS. Let's not forget THF also has Acid Bolts at their disposal, and Triple Attack.

Neither job is a particularly heavy damage dealer, but asking if DNC could outdo THF is like asking if RDM could outdo BLM, or if COR could outdo RNG. Imagine a list of every situation possible for comparing the two, and there'll be a thousand "no"s, and about twenty "well maybe"s.

[Symbios]

He said with dancer having 50% double attack rate a thief triple attack wouldn't come close to his dot , even if the thief had it merited

Sabre dance decays over the duration. Even if he had fully merited Sabre Dance (Recast 3 min) and used it the instant he got it up, that would mean he has an average of...35% double attack, I believe (not counting Brutal Earring)? A THF with merited triple attack (Why would you compare an unmerited THF VS merited DNC) has 10% triple attack as a base. THF has an access to a larger variety of haste gear last I checked, and THF has superior dagger choices.

Where's that 1400 dancing edge number coming from? Is that a high end? Sounds like just a regular eyeballed "whoa" number to me. A well-geared THF isn't using DE anyway, they're using Evisceration, and they can pull off numbers that are just as good, and usually much higher.

[maliante]

Where's that 1400 dancing edge number coming from?

actually his damage was 1.2 - 1.4k damage on average with bard. w/o bard average 900 damage.

[Roofus]

Neither job is a particularly heavy damage dealer, but asking if DNC could outdo THF is like asking if RDM could outdo BLM, or if COR could outdo RNG. Imagine a list of every situation possible for comparing the two, and there'll be a thousand "no"s, and about twenty "well maybe"s.

Pretty much dead on right here. There are always these exceptions to the rule. And in party scenario there are always going to be great arguments as to why you'd want dnc over thf or cor over rng. But going head to head solo these things always fall apart. If I have to go solo something I often think about going cor and doing dnc/nin rolls and "surviving" when in reality my rng would probably smoke the mob in a quarter of the time even if I get beat up a little. But then in party aspect if I go cor, sure my dmg is essentially halved. But if buffs dramatically improve the entire party production then the loss of dmg from rng is moot.

If you want a solo job, I say just cap thf, nin, or pld and sub dnc.

[treelo]

No.

[Roofus]

No.

Ok this guy says no, without explanation, so it he must be right. I guess if you want to solo some nm's at 75 you shouldn't do it as thf, nin, or pld. I guess bst should be thrown in as well. Maybe he prefers pup solo?

[treelo]

Ok this guy says no, without explanation, so it he must be right. I guess if you want to solo some nm's at 75 you shouldn't do it as thf, nin, or pld. I guess bst should be thrown in as well. Maybe he prefers pup solo?

Uh oh, did you just take the bait? I think you did! First of all, when attempts at wit or sarcasm cause your typing standards to slip, you know you're doomed to failure from the off. Think it through next time, get someone else to read it and when they understand what you're saying, hit post. Looking at your other post though, are you related to Rambus?

You'll have to forgive me though, I'm used to saying stuff and having it accepted as fact. I believe you wanted an explanation. Given that DNC is primarily a support job it is expected to fulfill this role in the party, any damage it happens to cause is an added bonus. Now a THF is a DD, I don't have to worry about health, buffs, whatever it is DNCs do. The time a DNC spends buffing/curing is time a THF will spend hitting stuff. Add to this that DNC lacks serious offensive capabilities and doesn't have access to X's Knife or Hecatomb gear. Now assuming I came across a DNC that could come close to matching my THF, I'd go change subs. A good THF doesn't sub NIN because it is the best subjob, they do it because it is mp efficient. Without fail, a stacked WS will mean the THF is tanking, my now shadowless THF needs your curing. That's more TP you're wasting. I'm sure a competent DNC is a fairly good DD, but will they beat an equally skilled THF? No.

On to soloing. DNC is an amazing solo job, no denying this. However, a THF can do almost everything a DNC can do, the only exception to this is curing status effects. That narrows our scope slightly and opens up some mobs a DNC can solo that a THF can't. So what's next? Oh yes, NMs. Could I solo Charybdis on THF? Don't know, I'm certain I could give it a damn good shot though. Looking at the wiki page, seems like you need pretty much top-notch evasion gear to pull it off too. Where time isn't an issue, I'd say DNC and THF are on a par but let's look at timed NMs because it's something I have a lot of experience in. Could a DNC solo Behemoth? Once again looking at wiki it seems nobody has tried. I know I can as a THF because I'm free to run around and SAWS every minute. While I'm sure a DNC could tank Behemoth without breaking sweat, could they do enough damage in thirty minutes? Doubtful. Once again you're losing valuable TP on cures and buffs that you need to survive. I'll happily retract this if someone proves me wrong.

Next time you see someone posting a vague one word answer, think carefully about if you want to reply to it or not.

[maliante]

well... tbh my dancer friend doesn't heal, he considers himself a dd and does do a lot of damage. He has saber dance up during merit parties.

[treelo]

Let me correct something for you. He does damage. I'd be curious to know what sort of standard you're matching him up against too. Sounds like your friend and I would have a lot to say to each other, most of it wouldn't be too pleasant.

[soverive]

first off i just wanna note that i am maliante DNC friend! lol just wanted to reply to a few things and clear up some stuff as far as whats been put on this post already.
tbh i dont give a shit about my grammer so everyone knows there is a few things i would like to nit pick at tho!

treelo Posted Today, 04:12 PM
QUOTE (Roofus @ May 11 2009, 10:16 PM)
You'll have to forgive me though, I'm used to saying stuff and having it accepted as fact. I believe you wanted an explanation. Given that DNC is primarily a support job it is expected to fulfill this role in the party, any damage it happens to cause is an added bonus. Now a THF is a DD, I don't have to worry about health, buffs, whatever it is DNCs do. The time a DNC spends buffing/curing is time a THF will spend hitting stuff. Add to this that DNC lacks serious offensive capabilities and doesn't have access to X's Knife or Hecatomb gear. Now assuming I came across a DNC that could come close to matching my THF, I'd go change subs. A good THF doesn't sub NIN because it is the best subjob, they do it because it is mp efficient. Without fail, a stacked WS will mean the THF is tanking, my now shadowless THF needs your curing. That's more TP you're wasting. I'm sure a competent DNC is a fairly good DD, but will they beat an equally skilled THF? No.

first off there is so much just wrong with this paragraph it just makes me laugh... DNC is a support job.. THF is a DD! lmao. if you really look into the 2 jobs neither could fall under the DD job section... A thf was ment from job abilities to control hate in a party with job abilities like Collaborator, Accomplice, and Trick attack not to do massive amounts of dd like sam/war/mnk/drk/rng so on so forth. As for when you state that if for some reason you met a DNC that would come close to or surpass u( ME ) when it comes to dd out put you would not sub nin is just retarted... lmao try that shit in my merit pt or any party for that matter see who is eating dirt XD and for your last statement in this paragraph... i will PWN you! bring it!

On to soloing. DNC is an amazing solo job, no denying this. However, a THF can do almost everything a DNC can do, the only exception to this is curing status effects. That narrows our scope slightly and opens up some mobs a DNC can solo that a THF can't. So what's next? Oh yes, NMs. Could I solo Charybdis on THF? Don't know, I'm certain I could give it a damn good shot though. Looking at the wiki page, seems like you need pretty much top-notch evasion gear to pull it off too. Where time isn't an issue, I'd say DNC and THF are on a par but let's look at timed NMs because it's something I have a lot of experience in. Could a DNC solo Behemoth? Once again looking at wiki it seems nobody has tried. I know I can as a THF because I'm free to run around and SAWS every minute. While I'm sure a DNC could tank Behemoth without breaking sweat, could they do enough damage in thirty minutes? Doubtful. Once again you're losing valuable TP on cures and buffs that you need to survive. I'll happily retract this if someone proves me wrong.

once again just retarted... dnc cant put up numbers... lol i dont need stand in back of mob to pull off big numbers.. *cough* or behind someone *cough cough*

Now for my goal as dnc... Its to set the standard for your real dd jobs meaning if i can do it... you better be doing better as a dd... 1.2k1.4k on birdies every dam mob 900-1k mamool.
and before i go just wanna say sorry for long ass post but sometimes you got ppl that are closed minded that need be told thing or too... THF... LOL XD

edit: high end at bird camp has been 1657ish or lets say 1600+

[Banggugyangu]

apples to oranges.

The only thing these 2 jobs share in common is the primary weapon choice.

[soverive]

one last thing i keep up steps and sambas in merit... so i am doing my job as dnc -eva means more acc!-def means more att! lol

[treelo]

edit: high end at bird camp has been 1657ish or lets say 1600+

i will PWN you! bring it!

Now for my goal as dnc... Its to set the standard for your real dd jobs smile.gif meaning if i can do it... you better be doing better as a dd... 1.2k1.4k on birdies every dam mob tongue.gif 900-1k mamool.

Never quote numbers to someone you don't know. You'll usually get a nasty surprise.

[soverive]

Never quote numbers to someone you don't know. You'll usually get a nasty surprise.

like i havent seen that before ! do that shit every mob then come talk to me....

read the question at the begining of this thread and you will realize that your lil pertty picture has nothing to do with DoT.
At the end of 150 chain i will come out ahead and with pertty pictures like that i would love to merit with ya
people like you are reason why i lvled this job to 75 and am doing what i am doing with it...

[Arkley]

I have never met a DNC that I haven't outdamaged.

As COR.