[Kleiner]

Again, I will state:

A White Mage can put out more damage than you.

he must of started reading on page 2.... lol i never said i focus on dd.. i keep up sambas and steps smile.gif

Congratulations! Sambas are so usefull, you know. that 5% melee haste that doesn't affect recasts, or a few bits of HP back per hit which is completely negligible when a real healer is involved, or MP per hit thato nly works on mbos WITH MP.. and when do you have more than 1 BLU, DRK, or PLD in your average 75 party? Not to mention, it's overwritten by other effects (SCH en-spells) and it's gennerally better to use these other options, and not the Samba.

As for using Steps, you can't use steps as your defense to focusing on offense. Any DNC, even a bullshit offensive one, HAS to use steps to maintain their TP and buff themselves. You're using steps to get Building flourish and Reverse flourish; don't try to write it off as trying to help support.



Also, a DNC does not have the place, the utility, or the ability to work in endgame that THF has. I'm sorry, even a person who loves the class and wants to see it used in endgame, it just doesn't have it. a THF is hate management, SCing, TH, Feint, Dispel.. all kinds of crap. It's so much utility that DNC doesn't have. DNC is evolving and will find its place in endgame, but now's not the thread to discuss that. Point being, THF is a better DD, and THF is a better utility. DNC is a healer, it's out there to step, samba, and waltz. In the future i can honestly see DNCs moving to the front lines to tank.. but that hasn't been fleshed out enough for it to happen quite yet.

[Jynx]

i am gonna feel bad for treelo when one day a dnc does merit with ya and you fall behind... your gonna remember this thread and say dam he was right.. all in do time

I don't get your argument, when faced with solid numbers and facts you don't seem to reply in kind to argue your position...that quote up there...that's rich. No ammount of sunshine, rainbows, and happy thoughts will ever make that happen.

[Corrderio]

This reminds me of the days when people tried to compare PUP and MNK.

My god... are you serious? What's next? PLD vs BLU because they both use swords?

am gonna feel bad for treelo when one day a dnc does merit with ya and you fall behind... your gonna remember this thread and say dam he was right.. all in do time

I'm sorry, but DNC isn't a sought after job for merit PTs. So he/she will probably care less. And most people who've played post Zilart jobs suck ass at them anyway.

[maliante]

I'm sorry, but DNC isn't a sought after job for merit PTs

i'm sorry , but don't see your point since thief isn't a sought after job for merit ptss... well atleast on this server and when i was on bismarck

[Corrderio]

Just proving another point is all. Seeing a DNC in a Greather Colibri PT is a rare sight.

[Prothescar]

I've had THFs in my merit parties, and I've had DNCs.

THF party: SAM SAM THF WAR RDM BRD

DNC Party(har, har): SAM DRK DNC WAR RDM BRD

Take a guess at which one was able to break chain 100.

Edit: The DRK was outdamaging the 2nd SAM in the THF party 'cause the SAM was a shitcase, btw.

[maliante]

THF party: SAM SAM THF WAR RDM BRD

DNC Party(har, har): SAM DRK DNC WAR RDM BRD

Take a guess at which one was able to break chain 100.

i also think thief will out dot his dancer ,but ill give him is due when its earned. his pt set up was this

smn , brd , dnc , sam , sam ,and war. if I'm not mistaken , and he got past 250 skillchain .

maybe to give every1 an idea he should post his tp and ws gear

[Banggugyangu]

i also think thief will out dot his dancer ,but ill give him is due when its earned. his pt set up was this

smn , brd , dnc , sam , sam ,and war. if I'm not mistaken , and he got past 250 skillchain .

maybe to give every1 an idea he should post his tp and ws gear

I quite frankly don't care about his DNC TP and WS gear... because, like I said, I'm almost to the pinnacle of DNC gear, and my WHM does more.

The point of bringing WHM into this discussion is that DNC more closely resembles a melee WHM than a THF.

THF: DD with hate management tools, TH, and massive eva debuff.
DNC: Healer with impressive melee damage and great longevity.
WHM: Healer with more impressive melee damage, crowd control to an extent, but less longevity.

The trade off with WHM and DNC is longevity for a little more damage and crowd control.

Key note... with absolutely no reasonable room to improve on my WHM's melee and lots of room to improve on my THF, my THF still does more damage.

Damage situation for these three jobs on my char: DNC > WHM > THF.

Room to improve:

DNC: very little
WHM: Reasonably none
THF: LOTS

see where I'm going with this?

[maliante]

I quite frankly don't care about his DNC TP and WS gear... because, like I said, I'm almost to the pinnacle of DNC gear

question , does your dancer do the damage he says he does ???

if so then i can except your statement a little more not fully tho

but if it cant , you still need a lot more gear then u say u do

[treelo]

maybe to give every1 an idea he should post his tp and ws gear

An excellent idea.

Swap the Rap. Harness for Homam body and Cerb Mantle to Foragers to give you my current TP gear.


Swap the Warwolf to Cuchulain's Belt, Cerb to Foragers and you have my WS gear.


This isn't even close to my potential, there are significant improvements to be made in both builds that would simply increase the gap. To give you some indication of the level you're looking at though, here's another pretty picture from a Dynamis-Jeuno run.



It should have been a lot closer but due to my extreme confidence I decided to parse through any deaths I incurred, it seems every time I WS a MNK it decides to Hundred Fists in protest. As you can see though, apart from the extremely talented SAM there wasn't anyone who could even come close. This is the level of difference you are dealing with here, maybe the thieves you are used to playing with melee in AF1 legs and use HSers but when you primarily merit with nothing but ridill wars and bards, anything less than this won't even make me break a sweat.

i'm sorry , but don't see your point since thief isn't a sought after job for merit ptss... well atleast on this server and when i was on bismarck

You're right. I'm THF main and I can only think of two thieves I would ever consider inviting to merit. I can think of 0 DNCs however. A good THF is invaluable at G. Colibri camps though, when people realise you aren't a complete idiot and actually know what you're doing, people invite you because they know you'll wipe the floor with virtually anything they can throw at you. Sadly, the same is not true of DNC. The slot you would be taking up is filled with a BRD, COR, RDM or a real DD. You know, jobs that bring something other than fancy footwork to the party.

one last thing before i bounce from lunch break... to any DNC who reads this thread.. dont let these ppl with the you can't or the theres no way type attitude keep you from doing what you feel you can achieve on your dnc or any jobs for that matter.

Totally agree, go ahead and strive for excellence, I'll be waiting at the top to give you a gold star. If you're willing to let someone else talk you out of being the best, you don't deserve to be there anyway.

[Corrderio]

Quick question, what do you mean by HSers?

[treelo]

We do not speak it's name, but it adds 6% to your critical hit rate.

[Corrderio]

Oh... THAT thing. Now I remember.

[Kayalan]

Just kind of jumping in here after reading the last 3 pages... even though Tree has already showed (pretty much proved) that a good THF will put a DNC away in nearly every regard.

Well my 2 cents: I have had both these jobs 75 for quite a long time, both fully merited, with a cornucopia of endgame gear (homam, etoile, enkidu, heca), and I have never EVER come close to parsing DNC anywhere close to THF, not in any situation. And this is with Saber up all the time, BRDs/CORs, joytoys/azoths/augmented gullys, and even eating HH pies, subs, and all the like.

In a merit on birds every WS is stacked with either SA or TA, and if I use evisceration solo it still trumps a lvl3 building flourished EV, PK, DE, SB(lol). Now I have used my DNC in long term solo situations, like an AF3 fight or sea farming, and it will come out on top, only because it has the tools to erase myself and whatnot... in other words its a complete lazy man's solo job.

Now dont take all I say as if I am the king of both jobs, but this is like the first ever topic Ive seen where I felt like I knew the answer to the question at hand, hence why I responded for once. Also the ANNM augmented gully is really fun! (mine came with delay -8, and chr+2)

[Banggugyangu]

We do not speak it's name, but it adds 6% to your critical hit rate.

lolz, if you say it's name 3 times, 42 of them will appear and start reproducing like rabbits

[NikosThePLDMan]

Heartsnatcher, Heartsnatcher, Heartsnatcher

[Kagemitsu]

Heartsnatcher, Heartsnatcher, Heartsnatcher

IT APPEARS

[MattelotLeviathan]

When DRKs want to get their groove on, they don't turn to a DNC, they come to a THF for Feint. Would you sub DRK on DNC? I know I do on THF

So 1 job out of how many?

When a BLM drops a bomb and suddenly finds they have hate, do they run to a DNC? No, they come to a THF for Accomplice/Collaborator

That Blm should l2threat

Is DNC called upon to open and close skillchains? Nope, the THF that is "required" for TH can do that too.

We use Sams for SCs.

When the shit hits the fan and you need someone to kite something while you're recovering, would you look to a DNC? Nope.

Yes we do

THF makes bad tanks good and good tanks even better, what do you offer?

If you need a Thf to tank, you're doing something wrong. Not to mention, a good tank doesn't need a Thf... period.

DNC has it's uses, but they are severely limited by their need to constantly generate TP. /SAM and Reverse Flourish may remedy this to some degree, but in the end your usefulness in an alliance is severely hampered this requirement. A THF will find a spot in every alliance you can't, and while they may be there primarily for TH there are countless other roles we can fulfill simultaneously.

*insert random comments about my personal job against the other job in a piss-poor attempt to pretend like i've given real facts too*

So please, don't try pulling that shit in here.

*insert comment that makes it appear as if i've said things that put you in your place too*

[Symbios]

AM I DOIN IT RITE GUYS

WAAAH WAAAH WAAAH

Meet your new best friend:

[treelo]

Needs AGI rings for perfection. NQ Lv14 ones.