[Jeho]

I want a pair!! What MNK wouldn't obviously? ._.

And one of them told me that they've done some testing and it is better than Spharai according to whatever research they did.

Thank you SE for giving us MNKs an awesome weapon which for the most part are unattainable unless we level 3 other jobs to 75 (and one has to be BLM or SCH) in order for us to be accepted to a supersrs endgame LS like Apathy. Why? Because linkshells like Apathy don't care much for a little peon MNK like me. lol

Think they'd be interested in selling a pair of Shenlong's for 10 million? Would be nice if I had anything remotely close to that. :/

Thoughts?

kthx

/end rant

[pathwriter]

What would you do with it?

This sort of ties back to Azagarth writing out a big long post saying that for something as irrelevant as merit parties against Greater Colibri, the full Usukane Haramaki set is not worth the expense (I'm paraphrasing). I personally am working on Usukane and would love to find some way to get Spharai, but I want them to tank with. I've wanted Monk to be made into a serious tank for years, but SE ended up handing that off to Samurai along with damn near every other benefit imaginable.

What would you do with Shenlong's Baghnakhs, though? A little more damage. They're damned fine weapons, that's not even open to debate, but they're just a weapon that does more damage. Ever wonder why you rarely see Gungnir compared to all the Aegises and Apocalypses? It's because "more damage" is certainly a nice thing, it's what drives some people to get Mjollnir and Guttler and Tizona (Tizona's "more damage" comes from the MP regen as much as anything else), but it doesn't change the job in a serious way. Shenlong's Baghnakhs just hit hard.

Spharai, on the other hand, are tanking weapons. The damage proc, 10 Counter, and 20 Attack all feed into greater Enmity accumulation and greater survivability. That's the niche it fills.

Honestly, I doubt the claims that Shenlong's Baghnakhs exceed Spharai in terms of pure DPS, but it's potentially true (I doubt them because I suspect they're based on theorycrafting which is cannot help but be flawed -- although, lots of X > Y assessments in FFXI are flawed). If that's the case, so what? You complain that you'd have to level other jobs to get them, which is still a laugh 'cause Apathy wouldn't take you, but is that so different than collecting 80-120 million in gil to fund a Spharai? It's all time-effort-work. Hell, even if you bought the gil to get Spharai, short of being a trust fund kid, you had to work to get the money to buy it with, even if you rob banks, deal crack, or blow sailors.

Is it obnoxious that SE cannot figure out a way to make Hand-to-Hand weapons, such that Wagh Baghnakhs are still appreciably within range of Spharai in a way that Onimaru could never compare to Amanomurakumo? Yeah, it's obnoxious. Posts like this might make them finally wise up and say, "Fuck, Monks have always been broken in Final Fantasy games, would it be so difficult to let someone with a Spharai stomp everything that comes near it?" So I won't say that this was pointless, but I do think that you're worrying too much. It's more damage, something we'd all certainly enjoy, but it's nothing to lose sleep over.

[Jeho]

What would you do with it?

I'd run through WG and Jeuno and tell all my friends (including Derock cuz I want them before he gets them) to check me out! :D

Haha... Despite that childishness, you do raise valid points. What would the purpose of having this weapon be? I've asked the people on my server (except one) how often they use it and for the most part -aside from comparisons to other h2h weapons- they don't. Isn't tahat pretty sad? It's almost insulting in some aspects. In all honesty, I'm sick of looking at my Destroyers. It'd be nice to permanently change it up. Even now I use Indra's from time to time and once in a while my Cross-counters (though the delay gets annoying after a while). I would love to get my hands on some Avengers; alas, they don't exist.

Because my biggest excuse to fail in this game is based on playing time. I don't have as much time as I'd like to do all the cool things I want so in that sense I'm quite thankful for the items that I do have. For me, I would prefer to have Shenlong's over 5/5 usuakane. Yes, I said it. Why? I'd rather someone who can USE a full usu set use it than running around town in it saying, "Lookit me! Lookit me!". If I had a pair of Shenlong's, I'd never unequip them. I'd use them for everything that I can think of. Granted, how I play is probably much more different than other MNKs who play, but I assure you having Shenlong's would not be wasted on me any less than they are on people who have them equipped in White Gate while AFK.

I guess I just don't have the common sense that the typical main MNK has. Granted I would love to have at least Usu feet and head, but I'm limited in my contribution to a salvage static because of the amount of time I have to play. For how I play and what I do in-game, Shenlong's would make more sense to me though it may not make ,uch sense to someone else. :p

And I do agree with the last part of your post 100%. Not losing any sleep, but still, would be nice to have a bone thrown our way without having a bunch of ridiculous prereqs to overcome first. But that's old news, eh?

[Appie]

I want a pair!! What MNK wouldn't obviously? ._.

/

[azagarth1]

paths picking on me ;;

lol np i can take it.

[milich]

while i sympathize with path's "what do you need them for?" i'd want them just to make my character more powerful; that's all i ever want. some people like that kind of thing.

however, i sympathize even more with his skepticism regarding shenlong's outdamaging spharai. that's just not happening. the 2 base dmg and 20ATT are already about 8% DoT (which immediately beats 10ACC and 1%DA, and doesn't get squandered with focus up or against trifling dynamis/limbus mobs or easier mobs in various merit camps). add the triple damage proc and shenlong's speed advantage won't make up the difference.

i'd say they're almost offensively close considering how much "easier" it is to get shenlong's, but really if you put in the work to actually deserve a lot on a mob that hard to pop and kill, you deserve a weapon that's almost as good as relic. don't you think?

[pathwriter]

Given Pandemonium Warden has only been beaten, what, about three times, I would call Spharai substantially easier to acquire. Ignoring the absurdity of getting the trophies for Pandemonium, it's still essentially an unbeatable mob whereas Spharai just needs a Dynamis Lord-capable 'shell and money.

And my point was not that one shouldn't want to get Shenlong's Baghnakhs, merely that one shouldn't spend time whining and complaining about others having them and putting them to no especial use. They have no especial use; they're just very nice damage.

[milich]

Given Pandemonium Warden has only been beaten, what, about three times, I would call Spharai substantially easier to acquire. Ignoring the absurdity of getting the trophies for Pandemonium, it's still essentially an unbeatable mob whereas Spharai just needs a Dynamis Lord-capable 'shell and money.

And my point was not that one shouldn't want to get Shenlong's Baghnakhs, merely that one shouldn't spend time whining and complaining about others having them and putting them to no especial use. They have no especial use; they're just very nice damage.

no, i get your point, and i agree that it generalizes across DDs. i'm just pointing out that the pointless increase in power can be a motivator for some people. that said, it's not going to affect XP/hr, or winning this or that event.

i mean, DD maximizing in general i think has a hidden point that i doubt most epeen swingers realize or would countenance. DD maximizing's primary benefit is turning a below average to average merit/XP party into a workable/above average party, or taking a group of bad DDs in limbus/dynamis and carrying them to victory. through the years i've had tons of good KRT parties then 20k+/hr ToAU parties with decent/good mages and somewhat slouches of DDs. that's really the only difference maximizing makes. "what about those 1337 (insert boasting number above 26k) parties i have with my linkshell???" those parties are held back by mob repop and would likely be just as good if all the DDs took off a couple of their pieces of gear. when almost every equip and all members of your party are above average, you're in a great party, and shit like attention span and respawn time are your limiting factors.

in short, maximizing can help you have great parties with more people, and it can be fun if your attitude toward RPGs is "must have more POWAR!" but if you get deluded into thinking it makes a huge difference and makes you the most valuable player in the game or something, you're probably not taking in how the game really works.

edit: re: spharai vs shenlong's difficulty, some people make gil easily (or enjoy making gil), some people are lazy and connected to great HNMls. hard to say in advance what's more difficult, though your point was what i was trying to emphasize about not being mad that shenlong's are so good. at this point in the game (before better strats are figured out and more widely distributed, and pop item acquisition difficulty isn't nerfed) getting shenlong's is a great accomplishment (assuming you don't get ninja lot them or something... which is its own accomplishment i guess).

[Jeho]

And my point was not that one shouldn't want to get Shenlong's Baghnakhs, merely that one shouldn't spend time whining and complaining about others having them and putting them to no especial use.

Well, what did you expect? Not like MNKs who can use Shenlong's really believe they can make a difference in getting a pair anyway, right? My whole point of this thread was to stress a little frustration on the MNK job based on SE's thoughts on what MNK means to FFXI.

It's bad enough that MNK is pretty blah and the only bone they want to toss us (it seems) is a near impossibility to get with an average group of people. I really don't care what the comparisons are between Shenlong's and Spharai, both are not easily attainable for your average MNK. So because I want to upgrade my MNK and use something that would make a significant difference from what I'm using now makes me a complaining twit, meh... that's ok with me. I don't have a brutal, but every time I'm on, I shout for PMs to get me closer to that. I can farm for the gear that I need that might make a tad bit of difference compared to what I have now. It's annoying the only thing that I can't upgrade significantly is my weapon. No matter how I shout or how much gil I farm (I can't farm 100 million gil) the reality of it is I'm screwed for the time being. And there isn't a damn thing that I can do about that. But I'm ok with it despite knowing this. Otherwise I wouldn't be playing this dead game in the first place.

[milich]

I can farm for the gear that I need that might make a tad bit of difference compared to what I have now. It's annoying the only thing that I can't upgrade significantly is my weapon. No matter how I shout or how much gil I farm (I can't farm 100 million gil) the reality of it is I'm screwed for the time being. And there isn't a damn thing that I can do about that. But I'm ok with it despite knowing this. Otherwise I wouldn't be playing this dead game in the first place.

basically what you're saying is, "i wish i didn't have such an awesome weapon as destroyers. if my weapon were as gimp as the rest of my gear, i could improve it. damn you SE!" you may want to rethink your attitude a bit.

as for MNKs getting thrown bones, we're already so powerful that throwing us too many bones will mean a nerf.

[Jeho]

basically what you're saying is, "i wish i didn't have such an awesome weapon as destroyers. if my weapon were as gimp as the rest of my gear, i could improve it. damn you SE!" you may want to rethink your attitude a bit.

I'm tired of my destroyers. I want something else.

as for MNKs getting thrown bones, we're already so powerful that throwing us too many bones will mean a nerf.

If you really believe that MNKs are so powerful, then why is it that players who main MNKs are hardly ever asked to go to endgame events as MNK, with the exception of Salvage, Nyzle, and Dynamis (maybe)? If MNKs are so powerful why do people choose SAMs over MNKs to deal damage? When endgame players discuss damage dealing, MNK isn’t even in the conversation and for the most part, it’s not even a thought. So, on that note, you’re seriously mistaken and very wrong.

[Rockon]

I think you got that last part backwards Jeho, but lulz anyways.

[Jeho]

I think you got that last part backwards Jeho, but lulz anyways.

I re-edited. But not like it matters. And if I see a MNK running around on Remora in Fumas and a Brown Belt, I point and laugh, especially if they say, "Dune Boots are for gimps yo."

Oh yeah... how's WoW? Beat the game yet? TSS seems to have fallen apart or something. :/

[milich]

I'm tired of my destroyers. I want something else.


If you really believe that MNKs are so powerful, then why is it that players who main MNKs are hardly ever asked to go to endgame events as MNK, with the exception of Salvage, Nyzle, and Dynamis (maybe)? If MNKs are so powerful why do people choose SAMs over MNKs to deal damage? When endgame players discuss damage dealing, MNK isn’t even in the conversation and for the most part, it’s not even a thought. So, on that note, you’re seriously mistaken and very wrong.

such "endgame players" are like you: they don't know anything about battle mechanics, so they believe the alla general forum idiots who think SAM is the only DD in the game. i'd love to see you fumble around trying to even begin justifying the point you're trying to make.

and if you're tired of your destroyers, get sea, get faith baghs, and farm virtue stones. faiths are significantly better than destroyers.

[Jeho]

such "endgame players" are like you: they don't know anything about battle mechanics, so they believe the alla general forum idiots who think SAM is the only DD in the game. i'd love to see you fumble around trying to even begin justifying the point you're trying to make.

And the alla general forum idiots would extend to you it would seem. I've already made my point and it has been justified not only by me but by many others as well. I know you just dinged 75 recently and grats to you and all that, but there is more to this thread than your tiny brain can comprehend it would seem.

And you didn't answer my previous questions that I directed to you. So I'm thinking in your boyish eagerness to reply to my post you must have skipped over them so I'll repost it just for you:

If MNKs are so powerful why do people choose SAMs over MNKs to deal damage?

If you really believe that MNKs are so powerful, then why is it that players who main MNKs are hardly ever asked to go to endgame events as MNK, with the exception of Salvage, Nyzle, and Dynamis (maybe)? If MNKs were so very powerful as you proclaim the job to be, hence why we don't need anything from SE, shouldn't there be more MNKs involved in endgame then?

Cuz you know, MNKs are so very powerful according to you, right? So please elaborate on your statement moarly. I'm very interested in seeing you fumble around for an answer, let alone justify such a stupid comment.

and if you're tired of your destroyers, get sea, get faith baghs, and farm virtue stones. faiths are significantly better than destroyers.

Way to state the obvious, Captain. I'm sure your mother is extremely proud of you.

[Boldfinger]

if I see a MNK running around on Remora in Fumas and a Brown Belt, I point and laugh

Please don't. You'll upset me, Jeho. I thought you were my friend?

[Jeho]

Please don't. You'll upset me, Jeho. I thought you were my friend?

Oh, Bold. That'll never happen. We'll make sure you have Dune boots so you don't have to worry about using Fumas. <3

[Boldfinger]

Oh, Bold. That'll never happen. We'll make sure you have Dune boots so you don't have to worry about using Fumas. <3

But FG says the Dune boots are le gimp compared to Fumas. He used fancy 'maffs' and confused me with numbers

[Jeho]

But FG says the Dune boots are le gimp compared to Fumas. He used fancy 'maffs' and confused me with numbers

It's FG. What else can I say? He doesn't even have a Black Belt.

[Boldfinger]

It's FG. What else can I say? He doesn't even have a Black Belt.

Well... But... Did you read it though? It's the maths I tell you, I'm scared!

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/74008-dun...uma-kyahan.html