[ciscokid]

Apollo's = +15% Light // Cure Pot 10% // +2 every stat // +20 Dark // Additional effect: Light damage(lol enlight!)

Club//Shield Combo = Cure pot 10% // +12 Mnd +7 Chr // Enhance undead killer effective // Spell interruption rate down 10% // Def +15
Also Chance to block and to club meele!! ^^


What I really want to see is peoples opinions on what is the better choice.
For everyday curing and for dark weather//day.

How much does that +15% light bonus helps. Does the Mnd // stats from Club // Shield out weight the +15% Light effective for cures?


Atm I use Apollo's.


Sorry if this thread has been made before.. Im sure it has plenty of times ><;;

[pathwriter]

You didn't mention what grip you're using with Apollo's Staff, by the way.

For straight Curing, they are negligibly different. Where you'll see a difference is on Cure V. Templar Mace + Muse Tariqah, owing to the MND, will heal more with Cure V.

As far as I'm aware, the bonus to Light-based magic accuracy and damage does not have any effect on Cures. Day and weather bonuses are a separate part of the equation.

[ciscokid]

Well if the light effective doesnt effect cures I think Im gonna switch to club // shield when I get the shield XD

Of course my Apollo's will be macroed in for repose ect.


Thanks for the info.

[Tobiwan]

Dlont forget apollo's is still good for repose and flash if u ever needed to make sure flash landed lol.It is also better for your holy and banish if you use them,But the difference between a 500k apollo's and a 10k light staff is only 5% for those few spells where it would matter.Also u might want to look into a numinous shield+1 i am not sure what would b better that or muse.

[lorzy]

he said he was gonna keep apollo's for "repose ect.," so he's fine there.

muse would be better for cure V, numinous good for... elemental resistance i guess.

[Hyriu]

inb4pergatory

[Anthem]

he said he was gonna keep apollo's for "repose ect.," so he's fine there.

muse would be better for cure V, numinous good for... elemental resistance i guess.

Unless you do ZNMs, the Muse is unobtainable. Therefore, Numinous Shield [+1] is good for the Club/Shield combo, followed by a Divine Shield.

[Hyriu]

Unless you do ZNMs? Chigre and Verdelet can be soloed, no reason not to have Muse Tariqah, really.

[Anthem]

Well, ok, you don't have to fight the ZNMs to get it but you have to have Zeni to get the Spoilt Blood item. I'd be willing to bet that people who aren't doing ZNMs have 0 Zeni. Your response Hyriu did force me to examine the process of obtaining a Muse Tariqah closer than I previously had. I admit it is not as hard as I originally thought. I guess I'll have to get off my lazy ass and get some damn Zeni.

[Banggugyangu]

Well, ok, you don't have to fight the ZNMs to get it but you have to have Zeni to get the Spoilt Blood item. I'd be willing to bet that people who aren't doing ZNMs have 0 Zeni. Your response Hyriu did force me to examine the process of obtaining a Muse Tariqah closer than I previously had. I admit it is not as hard as I originally thought. I guess I'll have to get off my lazy ass and get some damn Zeni.

"Not having zeni" as an excuse is simply proof of laziness.

Path, you're correct. Light potency has no effect on cures.

To the OP. The difference is going to be very negligible. I recommend that you stick with apollo's/grip unless you're dying to use up 2 more inv spaces. Templar has it's major weight in situations where /NIN is sublime. Kited mobs are my personal favorite situations for this. I tend to be very active in those types of fights intentionally pulling/holding hate. Templar paired with asklepios is quite formidable.

IMO, the real reason to club/shield is when you can't /NIN and still need a solid survivability. Templar/genbu's is great for this. No sacrifice in curing potency but +10 eva skill and -10% physical damage.

Lots of options honestly. Everything's situational. All are fairly marginal across the board however.

Regarding flash: If your flash doesn't land and you have capped skill, the mob either already has a flash effect or probably has 100% resistance to it for whatever reason.

Apollo's for repose.

[lorzy]

Unless you do ZNMs, the Muse is unobtainable. Therefore, Numinous Shield [+1] is good for the Club/Shield combo, followed by a Divine Shield.

i didn't say numinous was bad, i said muse was better. the person who posted before me said "Also u might want to look into a numinous shield+1 i am not sure what would b better that or muse." it was in response to that; if you have a muse tariqah, only reason to use numinous on whm is for the elemental resistance. but i don't know if you would even then.

also note that the OP is planning on getting one, so... apparently it's not unobtainable to him?

[Pergatory]

inb4pergatory

Hi thar

i didn't say numinous was bad, i said muse was better.

Gonna have to strongly disagree. What makes Muse better? 4 MND? You should already be using staves for enfeebles & nukes so Muse won't help there. Thus it only benefits your Cures, and will likely not even change the amount healed by anything except Cure V, which will receive a boost not even equal to 1% potency. In fact, I might go so far as to say Muse Tariqah is a BAD shield for that reason. MND+7 looks great on paper but it's really rather a waste on the shield slot. Muse Tariqah is the budget shield, it's free and in this case you get what you pay for.

This is why I still think Numinous+1 is one of the best standing shields for WHM, if not the best. It has a few MND, so Cure V isn't totally left in the dark, but also some other stats that actually benefit you while standing around. It (ever so slightly) increases your max MP which is great for fights that don't start out at full thrust because it's nice to be able to hold high MP until the latter portion of the battle, but also adds slight boosts to elemental resistances across the board. Sure you might say 15 ele resistance won't change the world, but it doesn't have to because any increase to survivability is more valuable than another 5 HP on your Cure V.

I'd actually argue in favor of wearing Legion Scutum as a standing shield before Muse Tariqah. At least the Enmity-2 will benefit more than one spell in your entire repertoire.

[pathwriter]

Who said anything about using Muse Tariqah in an idling build? Terra's Staff is for idling in, or Genbu's Shield if you really insist on keeping Templar Mace equipped.

15 elemental resistance does dick, though. It might be awesome at level 10 or so, but at 75, no. At best it might be ok if you're fighting something that you know you'll take AoE magical damage from and against which you have an appropriate Barspell cast, but you'd still be better off idling in an appropriate elemental staff. Numinous Shield NQ or HQ is a mocker.

[Fredjan]

I believe his reasoning is maintaining high HP and MP while having other stats that could potentially help. And I agree about Legion Scutum, to an extent - there's a reason why I personally use Apollo's Staff + Staff Strap on normal cures, and Templar Mace + Nms. Shield +1 on Cure V. I don't have a Legion Scutum at the moment, nor do I have the Tariqah.

I'm not one to focus on MP+ in my idle/standing builds (I focus more on -dmg first, while maintaining high HP and MP and refresh/regen - I idle with over 1k on both). In the end I suppose it's up to the player's playstyle in this case. My WHM hardly ever gets hit - compared to my BLM, for example - and that job is exactly where I got my idle setup reasoning. And when it works for someone there's hardly any reason to adjust. It is silly to use Genbu's Shield over a Terra's Staff, though, in any event. WHM won't block any hits. If I were to idle in favor of HP/MP instead of -dmg, I wouldn't be wearing a Genbu's Shield, either. I would be wearing Seveneyes and Nms. Shield +1, which is what I assume he idles in.

As a sample here (Cure potency items used: Templar Mace, Aristocrat's Coat, Roundel Earring) - using my stats on my WHM:
Cure V with 70+62 MND and 62 base VIT and 291 healing skill: 891 (This is with Nms. Shield +1).
Cure V with 70+66 MND and 62 base VIT and 291 healing skill: 894 (This is with Muse Tariqah).

The difference is SLIGHTLY larger if I were to use Medicine Ring also:
Cure V with 70+57 MND and 62 base VIT and 291 healing skill: 957 (This is with Nms. Shield +1).
Cure V with 70+61 MND and 62 base VIT and 291 healing skill: 961 (This is with Muse Tariqah).

The difference is 3-4 HP. Hardly worth complaining over. tl;dr : Use what you prefer.
As for me, I like more MND.

[Hyriu]

It's all about the e-peen Cure Vs jeez >.>

[Pergatory]

Who said anything about using Muse Tariqah in an idling build? Terra's Staff is for idling in, or Genbu's Shield if you really insist on keeping Templar Mace equipped.

It didn't really need to be said... as it turns out, the only situation where Muse Tariqah is even worth equipping at all is Cure V. So unless the debate is about Cure V, Muse Tariqah pretty much loses by default. That being said, is it even worth the inventory space to add MND+4 to your Cure V? Unless you're actually pulling hate enough that spell interruption would help? (In which case, I'd still say Legion Scutum would be better to reduce your enmity.)

At best it might be ok if you're fighting something that you know you'll take AoE magical damage from and against which you have an appropriate Barspell cast

You say it like this is an uncommon scenario. The WHM should generally be able to avoid most AOEs but mistakes happen. People draw hate into the mages, or the monster gets uppity and you gotta move around a bit to cast on folks, etc. Elemental AOE probably accounts for 90% or more of the damage I take on WHM.

I would be wearing Seveneyes and Nms. Shield +1, which is what I assume he idles in.

Yes that is correct, I idle in Seven & Num+1. This is also my second choice, my first would be to idle in dmg- gear. However, I don't use Spellcast or Windower macros, and 6-line macros can be rather limiting. Thus my standing gear incorporates quite often my most commonly-used spellcasting equipment in each slot so as to reduce swapping in each individual macro to a minimum. It's kind of a compromise, I know, but I refuse to go to a multi-macro system where in order to cure someone I first hit a macro to swap into Cure gear then hit my Cure macro...

[Majhone]

It's all about the e-peen Cure Vs jeez >.>

then stop worrying about shields & pointy sticks and get a roundel earring.

[Hyriu]

Have had one for months.

[pathwriter]

You say it like this is an uncommon scenario. The WHM should generally be able to avoid most AOEs but mistakes happen. People draw hate into the mages, or the monster gets uppity and you gotta move around a bit to cast on folks, etc. Elemental AOE probably accounts for 90% or more of the damage I take on WHM.

You quite missed the point. 15 elemental resistance means dick by itself. It will not reduce damage by any observable amount. If you're in a situation where you can predict the element of the spell to be cast (e.g., Jailer of Faith), that 15 Earth Resist might help, but you'd do just as well to be idling in Wind or Auster's Staff since you should own that already. Numinous Shield +1 is not accomplishing anything for you. The only shields worth equipping, really, are Legion Scutum (for -Enmity and +hMP, so a good full-time option with Templar Mace) or Genbu's Shield (when you're likely to be taking physical damage, which isn't often).

Also, idling in -Enmity is moronic. If you're idle, you're not doing anything, so you're not accumulating Enmity.

[ciscokid]

Would Chr help at all for the darksday//weather resists?
I never really knew how to stop those resists.
I'm Mithra so I lack chr. :/


I use Medicine ring alot, I use alot of gear macros for like every spell. I try to use every peice of gear to its best use (use windower macros)
Spellcast is better (as I hear from alot of people) but I didnt get to that peak yet ><;

I notice about the same resists with more cure potency which I thought would solve the problem back when I first started to use
Medicine ring. So I dont think its Cure Potency, but I could be wrong. I was thinking maybe its more chr and mnd that will help in darksday//weather.
I really didnt ask much about the darsday//weather cure resist ever, I always tried to just fiquare it out my self, so if im off by alot try not to flame to badly ;p

Thanks for all the reasponses and stuff so far fun fun ^^

Edit: Oh yeah, my ls im currently in does do ZNM so ill eventually obtain.. prolly both shields XD