[SaveTheQueen]

About the summons doing low damage.... anyone here have summoning magic Capped?.... summon over and over and over while you wait for parties... They might kick more ass at higher lvls with more skill...

[Wickett]

I do indeed have my summoning magic capped... as long as you keep up with it, it isn't THAT difficult to do (incredibly boring though and can take days if you let it get away from you.) And no, my avatars still don't kick ass; ;

[SaveTheQueen]

What about how the summoners get to cast the blackmage spells II and IV vicariously thought their summons.. Altho the damage is kinda randomized you still cast them at 20%-50% less than what a Black mage casts them at... For example... Blackmage Never gets Thunder IV But only thunder III that costs 172mana... But the Summoner's Raumah Thunder IV is 118 mana....

[Dangerwr]

Sorry if you disagree with me but, I have a friend who is very high level and said that summoners can replace a blm or a whm. You have to admitt once a summoner gets all the avatars they are worth saving a spot in your party for. I mean garuda alone is enough to want me to invite them in my party. Hastaga on garuda, Rush with Shiva ( basically pentathrust) and Ruby2 with carbunkle. That is just the ones i have heard about. So right there tells you that a summoner can do well as a whm and they are no push overs when it comes to damage. There is one thing that i do not like about summoners though, when they complain about mp decreases during summons. (at lower levels it understood) but around my levels you get rings that subtract 1mp deduction per second while avatar is out. Again sorry if you disagree but that is how i view it.

[motoh]

I hope this works. I don't rightly care about game balance... when I do start in with summoner, I want to have fun, and so far it doesn't appear to be much so.

Good luck!

::Two cents hit the ground, Motoh dives for it::

[Ghedrain]

Ok, I just want in on the position. Anyone that has played a summoner (NA and JP included) will tell you that summoner sucks. As a summoner you end up subbing whm and just spamming heals on your tank. If your party is doing things correctly, only one person is taking dmg, so what's the point of group blink and stoneskin? I just wish square would fix summoners so I would have a reason to actually play summoner correctly and keep my summon out. What I would really like to see is the constant mp cost taken away, the mp cost of summoning the avatar increased, and the mp cost of using the special abbilities increased. If that would happen I would be fine with my summon hitting for 10 and casting for 60 because I wouldn't be wasting my mp to keep the damned thing out.

[Meiyu]

What I would really like to see is the constant mp cost taken away, the mp cost of summoning the avatar increased, and the mp cost of using the special abbilities increased. If that would happen I would be fine with my summon hitting for 10 and casting for 60 because I wouldn't be wasting my mp to keep the damned thing out.

I would shoot myself if I had to spend more than 92 mp on party blink - that's enough as it is, tyvm.

What about how the summoners get to cast the blackmage spells II and IV vicariously thought their summons.. Altho the damage is kinda randomized you still cast them at 20%-50% less than what a Black mage casts them at... For example... Blackmage Never gets Thunder IV But only thunder III that costs 172mana... But the Summoner's Raumah Thunder IV is 118 mana....

Again, someone who is talking stats, and isn't a summoner. See those names? They mean nothing. From my experience, my elem II magic casts at 20- 50% LESS than the corresponding ELEM ONE MAGIC. Get it? Waste of mp.

/smakcs her forehead for trying to explain things to a level 20 rdm about summoner, why do I bother...

[Liquid_snake005]

dangerwr hastega, ruby 2 and stoneskin for instance only last for less than half of the real versions. Stonekin is good only when fighting gobs really. carbuncles shell and protect effect only last for about 15-20 percent of a white mages shell and protect, and shiva and the other avatars dont get there best attack moves till level 70 like rush which is still only 1 move.Which still makes having a Summoner at 60+ in the party cause more downtime because if a smn took the place of a blk mage the blk mage coulda done 3-4 times more damage than a summoner coulda done in 1 fight. And at 60+ summoner cant play the role as a white mage as well because of high damage but slow, small heals. So in all reality,its not helpful to have a summoner in a 60+ party untill maybe lever 70 and even than another job coulda contributed and done more for the party than a summoner can.

[Liquid_snake005]

oh and i forgot to mention, you have to wait 1 WHOLE minute to cast another bloodpart after you have casted 1 one. :wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall

[SaveTheQueen]

/smacks head every time i post on forum because I keep forgeting my opinion isn't Valid because of lvl... how do i know your not talking out your ass about your lvl... I dont, so i take your word for it. As far as summoning goes i agree some things could be tweeked a bit. like the 1min bloodpact cool down and making the spell damage more realistic. But at higher lvls you get many idems that reduce the constant Mp cost of summoning avatars lowering it by approx 6mp/3sec. making it very playable.

[Liquid_snake005]

those items dont mean anything Savethequeen if you AVATAR is doing crap for damage and STILL wastin your MP, and your abilitys like aerial armor,stoneskin,hastega are startin to get more useless higher up. Only time a Summoner at level 50+ is not ADDING to more downtime is when - You have a good NINJA tank- 60+Summoner ADDs more downtime regardless, Red mage,blk mage, wht mage set up or Bard,wht mage,blk mage setup is what most partys level 60+ go with so it leaves most Summoner LFG

[Krystar]

You know, I knew something was wrong when I was fighting Raptors and saw Ramuh come out and cast Thunder IV for liek 30 damage (like 3 times)... waht the hell? A BLM with THunder 1 can do like 70-100dmg...

Now that I think about it, no one really goes "hey let's get a summoner!" sure if they see one LFG they will ask but they are never thought of like they should be IMO.

Summoner should be more rewarding, the quest is hard and you have to have bucketloads of fame just to get the Avatars.

[paladiny]

summoners are rare....

[Quiksilver]

good luck with petition i think one has already been started tho

[Hejui]

Hello everyone. first post so be gentle I personaly agree that summoners are under powered. Here's my suggestion for how to fix/improve them.

1) Lower the lv that you can fight Avatars at to maybe mid to late 40's
2) up the ATK power and casting power of all the avatars and spirits. They should all at least be comperable to the elementals of the same lv IMHO
3)Eliminate the MP drain but maybe put like a time limit on how long they can stay out with each summoning. like 1 or 2 minutes or so. and maybe make the time limit go up as you raise your summon skill
4) gaurantee a hit from Astrals
5) maybe make them a little more different from each other. example: Titan can hit really hard but spells are weaker where as Ramuh is an excelent caster but has poor attack.

those are just some things I think would be nice. BTW nice to meet you all

[loonie]

In actual

fact, Fenrir is a mini-patch for smn. minus the fact that it take a lvl 70-75 job to get the

pact to summon it. I am a lvl 60 smn in ifrit so i do understand the pain of being a smn

especially when you decide to be a summoner even before you get the game, but if they really

upgrade summoner to be that powerful as purposed, you wont see a single whm, blm or rdm in

the game anymore as everyone will want to be a summoner.

I got fenrir last sat and

now i can truely feel i am a wanted class, for those who want to know why, chck out fenrir

ability, it really help alot in party. As to those that say why they make summoner a lvl 30

advanced job with the diffculty it has to put have all summon etc, it is the same as a

ninja or ranger in the same way, you need alot of Gil or gear to make both of them work

well..