[V3C1AN]

WSDMG+2% is "only 30 extra damage"? Do the math on STR+2 or RATK+5.

Isn't that the point? That 2% is meaningless even w/ it being combined w/ +2str as well as the +5attk from the other augment. But, when you throw in the +10 r.acc for additional support it allows for a higher hit % when using meat or subs. Thus imo being the better augment. I'm just not seeing how +3% is going to overpower a higher hit %. You miss the occasional and that 3% hurt you more than help.

[Spider-Dan]

Isn't that the point? That 2% is meaningless even w/ it being combined w/ +2str as well as the +5attk from the other augment.

Compared to, say, Triumph vs. Drone, or Flame vs. Ruby, or Vulcan's vs. Fire, or Rutters vs. relic, it's not particularly meaningless at all.

Everyone that is dismissing the insignificance of WSDMG+2% seems to have a fundamental lack of understanding of how much damage increase they get from upgrades in other slots.

But, when you throw in the +10 r.acc for additional support it allows for a higher hit % when using meat or subs. Thus imo being the better augment. I'm just not seeing how +3% is going to overpower a higher hit %. You miss the occasional and that 3% hurt you more than help.

Do you wear Behemoth Rings or Flame Rings? Why?

[Amastacia]

I can't say I tend to agree all that often with Spider-Dan, but he's right on this one.

Most things in FFXI are marginal increases, and if you're going to bother forking over the $10 for this mini-expansion, one of the larger marginal increases available is as RNG WS gear.

The nice thing about these rewards is they can be replaced at will, so if you don't have (and think you can't get) a Barbut, you can always make a Gimpbut. When you get one, you can get rid of the Gimpbut and get something more useful, like the best WS head in the game.

[V3C1AN]

Compared to, say, Triumph vs. Drone, or Flame vs. Ruby, or Vulcan's vs. Fire, or Rutters vs. relic, it's not particularly meaningless at all.

Everyone that is dismissing the insignificance of WSDMG+2% seems to have a fundamental lack of understanding of how much damage increase they get from upgrades in other slots.


Do you wear Behemoth Rings or Flame Rings? Why?

Agreed that the upgrades in other slots generally give marginal increases, save hachiryu haidate, osode, etc., it's just difficult to see the point in 2% unless it's off PT mobs. For example the "average" sidewinder does what ... 1k on Kirin, generally a little under w/o a brd or cor? Would you really want to sacrifice 10 acc. for 20 dmg? That being "if" you even hit. No doubt I'm probably going to experiment with both anyway, I just enjoy RNG discussions/debates.


& I wear Behemoth +1's atm & yes it is plural being I have yet to finish meriting archery. Maat's has taken up almost all available merit time .

[pathwriter]

The nice thing about these rewards is they can be replaced at will, so if you don't have (and think you can't get) a Barbut, you can always make a Gimpbut. When you get one, you can get rid of the Gimpbut and get something more useful, like the best WS head in the game.

This shit is obnoxious, just as irritating as Rambus touting his Maat's Cap in every other post. I have only so many hours in the week to play this game and already am doing more events than I care to. Stressing out further to get into an SCNM 'shell and hope to win the lot against 17 other people (admittedly, that's more likely to be true of Orc helm than Quadav), ignoring the amount of time and effort necessary to even get to the BCNM, much less beating it and hoping that it drops, is really asking a lot. It's not like this is something as easy to get as Walahra Turban nor as reliable to obtain as Optical Hat, so let's can the "gimp" horseshit. I know these are forums and I know you're tempered by hanging around too many relics (oh, wait, they got banned), but I run with Amanomurakumo, Mandau, and Spharai in my groups without saying stupid things like this.

[Villian]

It is safe to say that if you want more WS damage go str4/ws.acc15 + agi4/ws damage+2%. If you want more WS acc go str4/ws.acc+15 + racc+10/ratt+5. I agree that if you have no problem with your slugwinder hit %, go for the first one. I'm going for the second one b/c I like my slugwinder to hit since I don't have archery merits. 8sword/8club/4gun :/

[Greeber]

This shit is obnoxious, just as irritating as Rambus touting his Maat's Cap in every other post. I have only so many hours in the week to play this game and already am doing more events than I care to. Stressing out further to get into an SCNM 'shell and hope to win the lot against 17 other people (admittedly, that's more likely to be true of Orc helm than Quadav), ignoring the amount of time and effort necessary to even get to the BCNM, much less beating it and hoping that it drops, is really asking a lot. It's not like this is something as easy to get as Walahra Turban nor as reliable to obtain as Optical Hat, so let's can the "gimp" horseshit. I know these are forums and I know you're tempered by hanging around too many relics (oh, wait, they got banned), but I run with Amanomurakumo, Mandau, and Spharai in my groups without saying stupid things like this.

Amen

[Amastacia]

This shit is obnoxious, just as irritating as Rambus touting his Maat's Cap in every other post. I have only so many hours in the week to play this game and already am doing more events than I care to. Stressing out further to get into an SCNM 'shell and hope to win the lot against 17 other people (admittedly, that's more likely to be true of Orc helm than Quadav), ignoring the amount of time and effort necessary to even get to the BCNM, much less beating it and hoping that it drops, is really asking a lot. It's not like this is something as easy to get as Walahra Turban nor as reliable to obtain as Optical Hat, so let's can the "gimp" horseshit. I know these are forums and I know you're tempered by hanging around too many relics (oh, wait, they got banned), but I run with Amanomurakumo, Mandau, and Spharai in my groups without saying stupid things like this.

I don't have a Barbut. Almost all the people I know who would be interested in SCNM and I can trust not to be pants-on-head retarded have quit or been banned. I also don't have that many hours to play at the moment, so I'm not making any sort of speedy progress on my own.

But that doesn't change the fact that second best is second best, and that settling for second best sucks.

All 8 letterboxes can be farmed with 1-6 people, BCNM can be won comfortably with 10-12. Yes, there is a timesink, but no it's not outrageous.

The time spent completing a paid-for mini-expansion could be put to use farming SCNM letterboxes. You stand a very real chance of making a significant sum of gil while doing so, if you need an incentive to get people to help (Piper Torque and Terror Shield are both Quadav drops). At the end, you do a BCNM likely to be at least as fun & challenging as MKD, and walk away with better rewards.

If my calling the MKD Snapshot-enhanced reward gimp entices even one person to invest time and effort into obtaining the superior alternative, then it was worth it. A Barbut is not a relic, it is not beyond the reach of 99% of the game population. It is much easier to get than most people think, and the process of doing so takes a fair bit of time but involves some of the most unusual and interesting NM fights in FFXI.

I know that despite my limited play time, and despite my limited pool of trustworthy help, I will continue to try to chip away at getting a BC set and ultimately try to get a Barbut, because it *is* the best, and the effort invested is well worth it.

[pathwriter]

No, see, that's not what I'm saying at all. I didn't dispute which is the better of the two pieces. "Gimp" is an Noct Beret at level 75. Don't feed me this "If I convince people blah-blah-blah." It's a cop-out. If you're seriously that neurotic, then I'm sorry you didn't dupe in Salvage because you would be badly in need of medical attention away from the game.

[Amastacia]

Neurotic? No.

I like being the best. High-D, Type A, whatever you want to call it. I can't stand when people happily settle for less than the best, when the best is well within their grasp.

A relic (for melees, anyway) is "the best", but such an outrageous process that it's not reasonable to expect anyone to pursue. You're not gimp if you don't have a relic.

Doing SCNM, you can spend 30-60 minutes at most a night, farm an NM or two with a couple friends, and in a week have a pop set. Hardly a huge time investment, and you might just get paid for your efforts. You can even plan which NMs you want to tackle based on what people/jobs you have available.

Spending $10 and investing a similar amount of time to get something not-as-good, when you could spend that time and money making a truly superior item (WS piece) is silly. And the resulting TP piece is gimp in comparison, since it's not like there's a hugely disparate amount of effort involved.

Sorry that we disagree on this, but I will continue thinking that anyone who spent the time on MKD and got a Snapshot head should've just spent their time on SCNM, and that it's a waste of a reward that could've been put to better use.

[Lambtor]

i'd not have chosen racc or ratk+ on the ACP body but since headpiece options are limited... you can turn this into a barbut+1 sort of. you can't do better than barbut overall but you can get something that gives more total damage or MAYBE more firing speed.

personally i'm looking at racc/ratk and str+/WS acc+. you've got to look at what you can swap out in other slots if you have the acc+ in this headpiece. most likely this is going to allow a lot of people to go with str+ rings in both slots full time, and/or crimson hands. and that's before you get into the options available when you've thrown wyvern helm away, and put your sea gorget in storage.

edit: barbut enm-5 can't be bested by anything chosen afaik.

[Spider-Dan]

Would you really want to sacrifice 10 acc. for 20 dmg?

See, my problem with the word "sacrifice" is that with the STR/WSACC selection alone, Anwig would be more accurate than any currently existing hat in the game! How is it a "sacrifice in RACC" when it's still better than what you are wearing right now?

[Spider-Dan]

personally i'm looking at racc/ratk and str+/WS acc+. you've got to look at what you can swap out in other slots if you have the acc+ in this headpiece. most likely this is going to allow a lot of people to go with str+ rings in both slots full time, and/or crimson hands.

If I need more accuracy, I can easily and simply swap out ring/leg slots for more RACC. Anything that I cannot hit in full RACC gear (and WSACC+15), I can't hit RIGHT NOW, period. And ultimately, it's a hell of a lot easier to switch rings when I do need more RACC than it is to switch hat augments when I don't.

[octoberasian]

This shit is obnoxious, just as irritating as Rambus touting his Maat's Cap in every other post. I have only so many hours in the week to play this game and already am doing more events than I care to. Stressing out further to get into an SCNM 'shell and hope to win the lot against 17 other people (admittedly, that's more likely to be true of Orc helm than Quadav), ignoring the amount of time and effort necessary to even get to the BCNM, much less beating it and hoping that it drops, is really asking a lot. It's not like this is something as easy to get as Walahra Turban nor as reliable to obtain as Optical Hat, so let's can the "gimp" horseshit. I know these are forums and I know you're tempered by hanging around too many relics (oh, wait, they got banned), but I run with Amanomurakumo, Mandau, and Spharai in my groups without saying stupid things like this.

After reading the posts going back and forth, I would have to agree with Path on this one, honestly.

See, I'm leveling my RNG to 75 and I'm looking for an equivalent alternative to Barbut right now, even if it is slightly less so. It isn't "gimp" by any means, and the point of these augments is to custom-fit them as you see fit. Calling anything "gimp" is elitist. And, being elitist is someone that ends up on my blacklist in the game or having them listen to a long worded diatribe in front of their face on how they care too much of the game that it becomes their life and blood.

So, instead of considering just your own selfish attitudes, consider the situations of others before calling anyone "gimp" you elitist [insert colorful word here]. That's the problem with elitists-- they care more about their own little world by being ignorant and selfish themselves, instead of considering everyone as a whole because they do not fit their so-called rules, regiment, and play styles. We all play the game in our own way. We'll take suggestions, but no one should be ordered around to do this and that just to meet your stupidly high expectations.

Path has his own situation-- he doesn't have much time in this game that merits a valid reason to spend more time than he can spare to get a Barbut for his RNG.

Thus, my situation is this-- Bismarck sucks ass on SCNMs. My friend's LS stopped doing SCNMs because LS members just lost interest in them. Their reasoning is because they get nothing out of it.

My current LS is almost similar, but they make their feelings known by not even showing up. Heck, LS members seem to "disappear" when it comes to sponsored Dynamis runs to help an LS member fund a relic, or even Einherjar.

The point is this: A large majority of players on Bismarck have lost interest in SCNMs altogether. I barely see anyone farm there nowadays. I don't even have a lot of friends either that want to put the time and effort in getting them. What makes it worse is that I don't have many friends left playing the game or still on this server. Majority of my friends are busy with their own LS to even spend time with me. Most treat me like a stranger in this game, and the only time they need me is when they need help for themselves.

I'm pretty much at a dilemma with this one-- Bismarckans lacking interest in doing SCNMs, LS members lacking interest in doing SCNMs, and friends not around to help me as well. So stating that I can get a group of friends together to do these is just being ignorant of people with my kind of situation or Path's. It would take a miracle for me to get Barbut at this point of time in the game given the kind of people I have on Bismarck.

That's my situation. And, as much as I'd like a Barbut for my RNG, it's going to be nigh impossible given the current attitudes of players on my server.

Therefore, with that said, I already see several possible augments:
(Given one doesn't have a Barbut or Maat's Cap.)

Salade v.1 - TP & WS (This will most likely be my obvious first choice.)

Ranged Accuracy +10 / Ranged Attack +5
STR +4 / Weaponskill Accuracy +15

Salade v.2 - TP only; WS in Wyvern Helm

Haste +3% / Enhances Snapshot Effect +3%
Ranged Accuracy +10 / Ranged Attack +5

Salade v.3 - WS only; TP in either Scout's Beret or Optical Hat

STR +4 / Weaponskill Accuracy +15
AGI +4 / Increases Weaponskill Damage +2%

Salade v.4 - TP and WS alternative

Ranged Accuracy +10 / Ranged Attack +5
AGI +4 / Increases Weaponskill Damage +2%

The thing though-- is 2% increase in WS damage going to be worth choosing that augment? I know a few said that the increase is going to be pretty minimal.

I already have Osode, so that's my TP and WS body piece now. My Mirke has augments for DNC and I'm not changing that for a while until I get Enkidu's Harness. If you guys have other possible combinations, feel free to post them. I like taking suggestions, and I always will consider all possible paths before I decide on something final.

[rambus]

After reading the posts going back and forth, I would have to agree with Path on this one, honestly.

May i ask why? I am not posting in the WHM forum that i have maats or w/e I find it not relevant. I find it relevant for this because people are auguring to mod it for a WS head. I want ti to be clear that i wanted to see arguments about doign this for WS VS maats, not O hat, not wyvern, not w/e else and so forth.

I made my case for posting about it on page 1, why is he bringing it up again when no one really debated this vs maats?

and the fact i prob not do that bcnm

[Spider-Dan]

Let me say this:

If you don't have ZGB (which is best TP piece hands down) and Maat's Cap (which is best WS piece hands down), and you don't see yourself getting either one, I'd probably recommend STR/WSACC+RACC/RATK.

Much like the faux-Haub version of Mirke, it's not particularly awesome, but it's a nice, comfy piece that you can set and forget. If you are on PS2/360, it's probably the most practical choice you can make.

[Villian]

Why are we even arguing about this? The str4/ws.acc+15 is pretty much set, the 2nd augment is the player's choice really. :3

[rambus]

Let me say this:

If you don't have ZGB (which is best TP piece hands down) and Maat's Cap (which is best WS piece hands down), and you don't see yourself getting either one, I'd probably recommend STR/WSACC+RACC/RATK.

Much like the faux-Haub version of Mirke, it's not particularly awesome, but it's a nice, comfy piece that you can set and forget. If you are on PS2/360, it's probably the most practical choice you can make.

thanks =/ this is why i was asking about a tp piece><

[pathwriter]

Rambus, you understand that Aselin was agreeing with me in regards to ripping into Amastacia, right?

You specifically made this topic about a TP hat (not that people entirely paid attention) and pointed out for at least the third time today that you have Maat's Cap, 'cause I guess you don't have a job or anything based on how fast you got it. You've gotten your answer: use Maat's Cap for weaponskills. You had that answer from the start, anyhow.

[rambus]

Rambus, you understand that Aselin was agreeing with me in regards to ripping into Amastacia, right?

You specifically made this topic about a TP hat (not that people entirely paid attention) and pointed out for at least the third time today that you have Maat's Cap, 'cause I guess you don't have a job or anything based on how fast you got it. You've gotten your answer: use Maat's Cap for weaponskills. You had that answer from the start, anyhow.

ya but no one gave options about tp piece like good augment for STP or something.

meh i guess its snap 3 , acc 10 , attk 5.

w/e =/.

PS i do have a job and things happened that actually made me get it slower then it should have, and school

pretty sure i noted it in my LJ, only effected NIN though.

when i stopped going to work was the same reason i stopped playing for a bit.

felt bad for some of my pts i had on nin though =/