[Shamaya]

You still seem to be calculating under the assumption that everyone in your party is going to benefit from a Madrigal.

Yes, it's true I am speaking in that context and it actually is frequently the case when I go to birds (by frequently I mean 50% of the time maybe, more or less).

Also it's the case that other people don't bring crab sushi and I can't always convince them to or forget to ask them to or just don't feel like asking them to. So sometiems 2 people benefiting a lot from madrigal can possibly outweigh someone only benefiting a little from it.

It certainly is, but ~12% haste is still going to outweigh ~66 attack.

If you're talking about a weaker march song, then it's 9%, unless we're talking G.horn in which case it could be 10 I believe.

I'm usually in agreement with double march as well but I'm not always so sure unfortunately =/. I also agree w/ the awesomeness of brd/cor but actually I have found 2 bards more easily than brd+cor occasionally. You get a shit ton of people who really don't mind going brd as long as they go /whm (something that pisses me off to no end, and is especially something I absolutely hate doing myself). The hard part is really finding a Brd/Nin. I always prefer a Brd+Cor though, especially if the Cor is flexible.

When I speak of madrigal > crab sushi and mithkabob > minuet, I am speaking in situations where you get the full benefit of the madrigal. I just mean it as a response to some who are saying that it's always the case that crab sushi > madrigal and that minuet > attack food.

[Yhelothur]

At the camp in question, it IS always that Crab Sushi > Madrigal for you. If you didn't have shit melee who might need both, then life would be much simpler, now wouldn't it?

[Shamaya]

It's not a matter of needing both. If every melee needs either crab sushi or madrigal to improve their accuracy, then madrigal (or hunter's roll) and mithkabobs/subs are just the better option. This is two bards, but for brd/cor chaos and crab is probably better. But it seems you're assuming that only shit DD's (that are not two-handers) would not bring crab sushi, which is just wrong. Plenty of excellent DD's sometimes don't even bother with food because they're lazy.

If there were 3 of me in a brd/brd party then madrigal would be at least one of the songs used. And I'd hardly call myself a shit melee. I doubt you've had as many 35k/hr parties as I at mid birds (you've probably not had any), with (a needed/helpful) hunter's roll as one of the buffs almost every time. As if birds weren't evasive or two handers were the only job class worth bringing to a merit party post-qq-buff.

Don't forget 'shit is situational' in FF guys. We say that for a reason.

[Spider-Dan]

Plenty of excellent DD's sometimes don't even bother with food because they're lazy.

oxymoron

[pathwriter]

Bullshit. If I eat food on Greater Colibri, I'm tanking (obviously referring to my Monk here -- Thief has no excuse not to eat food). If I'm tanking, I'm eating a new piece of food every 60-120 seconds. I don't care how cheap Crab Sushi is, that's a nuisance and stupidly expensive. If we're pulling down 23-25k XP/hour without food and fighting respawn times, adding food in is only going to improve our gain by a couple thousand. Let's suppose I'm being excessively generous and pretend that it brings us up to 30k/hour, which all the forum-whores claim is a standard take because they're FUCKING LIARS. That's half a merit per hour, which adds up if you need 200 merits, but you're not pulling down 30k XP/hour unless you're quite well-merited and geared on whatever jobs you have and, thus, at best you're working on a handful of job-specific merits for whatever job just hit level 75 last week.

I don't get why people take merits so damned seriously, though. I'm concerned about performing at peak when and where it matters. Having to spend an extra hour per week stabbing birds and laughing with glee at the damage that Evisceration just did suits me fine if I can do so without having a damned aneurysm stressing out about capped Accuracy and using a new piece of food every minute and a half.

[Kaparu]

And I don't get why people think merits don't matter. When something takes up such a large portion of one's playtime(individual cases may vary), its only natural to maximize your performance. Also, there's absolutely no way you're fighting repop times at 25k/H unless you're double-camping.

Though, why I'm responding to that comment escapes me, I've long since accepted the fact that we'll never see eye-to-eye in regard to anything of the sort.

[pathwriter]

When something takes up such a large portion of one's playtime

If you want to treat a video game as a job you pay for, that's your deal. I worry about maximum efficiency when it is required. Merits don't require it, not by a long shot, especially if you're in a pick-up group as most merit parties are. I pull out all the stops if I'm working alongside someone whose contribution demands that I step up, but even then, it's just dick-waving. In the meantime, though, in a game that frequently leaves me wondering why I'm playing (Salvage drop rates, Einherjar randomness, undesired Limbus drops, etc.), I insist on carving out some place where I can do something that matters but can still be a form of leisure. Merits work, at least when I'm on a DD job. Pulling or healing in merits is a totally different story.

[Kaparu]

Like I said, I'm not trying to sway you. Different people, different priorities. And, if you'll excuse the potential sexual innuendo, I very much enjoy dick-waving.

[Cream Soda]

oxymoron

this

[treelo]

If you want to treat a video game as a job you pay for, that's your deal. I worry about maximum efficiency when it is required. Merits don't require it, not by a long shot, especially if you're in a pick-up group as most merit parties are.

Probably because the other five people in the party are all thinking the same thing.

If we're pulling down 23-25k XP/hour without food and fighting respawn times, adding food in is only going to improve our gain by a couple thousand.

Following your own estimate, two hours nets you an extra merit that you wouldn't have gained without using food. Clearly not worth it.

Bullshit. If I eat food on Greater Colibri, I'm tanking (obviously referring to my Monk here -- Thief has no excuse not to eat food).

Funny, if I eat food on my thief, I'm tanking and I'm losing food quicker than you would be. Why is this an excuse for monks and not thieves?

Oh yeah, Ancient Torque wins.

[pathwriter]

Funny, if I eat food on my thief, I'm tanking and I'm losing food quicker than you would be. Why is this an excuse for monks and not thieves?

You merit with people who suck or you like opening fights with SA+Evisceration. Thief can avoid taking aggro.

[nefarious.lover]

If you're not bringing crab sushi or mithkabobs with you in large quantities you're not doing it right.

[treelo]

You merit with people who suck or you like opening fights with SA+Evisceration. Thief can avoid taking aggro.

You're right, I could avoid taking aggro. But given the choice between two thieves, one who is going to knock 40-90% off a G.Colibri in roughly 3 seconds or another who is going to piss around with TA for 5-10 seconds, I know which I'd take. Add to this that I'm now totally in control of hate for the remainder of the battle, I'd say I was fulfilling both my roles as a THF rather well.

Taking into account the speed of battles and constant spamming of multi-hit TP moves, you'll probably find having a THF tank is a lot more efficient. So I suppose you're right, there is no excuse for a THF not to use food. I still fail to see why a MNK has more reason not to though.

[pathwriter]

I still fail to see why a MNK has more reason not to though.

I have no means of preventing aggro being on me. When two punches drag hate right off that fresh Provoke someone laid down, feeding the birds is no longer fun for me. I'm not going to pay thousands of gil to get an extra fifth of a merit per hour (nice job latching onto bullshit forum numbers, by the way, food doesn't translate to 5,000 XP/hour unless you'd otherwise be getting 6k/hour on Greater Colibri). Merits are where I go to relax, not stress out and shit money away. So, obviously, I'm not going to merit on Ranger.

[Jynx]

Knowing/Being a cook drops the price of food exponentially and isn't very hard or expensive to level to a respectable level at least to make cheap merit food even cheaper.

[synthetic]

i pop food no matter what job i'm meritting on, and yes this includes mnk. trying to justify why you can't even pop some cheap shit is just a poor excuse.

and trying to avoid agro on colibris as a thf? are you serious? if you're not pulling agro on colibri you're clearly doing something wrong. thf is better tank than most "real" tanks, especially for merit mobs. and if you're on thf you should be one of the primary dd's in the pt so any sort of holding back is just stupid.

100% tp = weaponskill, doesn't matter what % the mobs at, whether or not sa or ta is up, you just go. we have powerful multihits, access to some of the best ws gear in the game. there's absolutely no reason to be playing like a slob.

[pathwriter]

doesn't matter what % the mobs at there's absolutely no reason to be playing like a slob.

Speaking of poor decision-making process.

[nefarious.lover]

I have no means of preventing aggro being on me. When two punches drag hate right off that fresh Provoke someone laid down, feeding the birds is no longer fun for me. I'm not going to pay thousands of gil to get an extra fifth of a merit per hour (nice job latching onto bullshit forum numbers, by the way, food doesn't translate to 5,000 XP/hour unless you'd otherwise be getting 6k/hour on Greater Colibri). Merits are where I go to relax, not stress out and shit money away. So, obviously, I'm not going to merit on Ranger.

The super casual player who thinks he knows everything but is too relaxed to be hardcore about it routine gets old.


Needless to say anyone who shares your mentality isn't really welcome in my merits.




Then again I prefer to not have MNK in my merit in the first place.

[pathwriter]

That's ok, I wouldn't merit with a Thief if I was paid to do so.

At what point did treating a game as a source of leisure and enjoyment become "super casual" and an insult, anyhow? Have you guys forgotten what leisure is? You aren't being paid for this shit.

[Cream Soda]

doesn't matter what % the mobs at,

Absolutely wrong.

If you tp a mob a under 15%, you either have a very shitty ws or you're wasting tp.