[Corrderio]

No I haven't because for the most part I never like Western game companies since most seem to only copy shit, SE has already said it'll be fairly original with a mix of WoW and XI as well.

[Godin]

I love the "cant find a group? make some friends" argument. Cuz, y'know, you only want to make friends with people who play the right jobs. Needless to say, in FFXI, you could not jump on WAR, invite your MNK and DRK friends, and get decent xp/hr. Its just not gonna happen. I believe in FFXIV, this sort of thing will be possible.

[Corrderio]

Funny story about the friend thing, you know how many people will kiss your ass and ask to be your friend if you level BRD?

[Varizen]

My god lock this thread before Rambus see's the part about service.

Rambus and Icerat said they'd never post again after we railed so hard against them in the other thread. If they do, then they broke a swear.

[Kleiner]

LOTRO: failed because it's honestly boring. The classes are very bland and uninteresting. the game's lore is severely limited by the game's adherance to the Lore's story of the time between the Fellowship set out, and the fellowship accomplishes its task. The races are lackluster because, again, it's forced to stick to LoTR lore. the only thing in the game that's fun is monster mode, where you take on a monster and get to kill players and other people as monsters.

LotRO's major failings were in making it interesting. In all honestly they did SOME things from WoW BETTER than WoW. The graphics are quite pretty when played at max, and detail put into alot of the equipment succeeds alot of what WoW puts into the game. Character creation is much more defined, and inclusion of features like Vanity armor and other vanity additions make the game interesting. the issue is that it came out at a bad time, and while is surpassed itself visually, and lacked something to hook the players. the fantasy of WoW can be stretched and played out because it's taking place in an open end; LoTRO has to stay within confines of the story. it was doomed to fail.

AoC: Wanted to be a "mature" version of WoW. more adult themes, more violence, more graphic nudity and ect. essentially, it wanted to appeal to a nerd's sense of "OH MY GOD THIS GAME HAS BOOBIES AND BLOOD" over "I'm a level 15 half elf wizard who knows fire level four!". Essentially, most people want to be a half elf wizard with level four fireball, over a half naked beefed up warrior looking at pixelated boobies. most of us can get real ones.

The problem is, these games INTENTED to be WoW clones. They didn't pioneer anything, they didn't change anything. Cowboy is right; if any MMO comes out purposely intending to be a clone of WoW, it will fail. WoW is already there and ingrained into the MMO market. However, FFXIV won't. FFXIV is being made by Square Enix, a company who has always put their japanese players first. It is their largest player base, and they spend generally more time in this game than we NAs do. FFXIV is, again, going to be multicultural, and this is what will stop it from being a WoW clone. the JPs hate WoW.. it's too easy, it's too quick, and it doesn't feel rewarding. Also, it's not social. the japanese as a whole have becoem extremely xenophobic especially on the internet. Not only that, but they've become more and more ANTI social in the real world. their homes are reducing to tiny, tiny effenciency apartments that barely have room for them to live. their commute to work is walking there with their heads looking at the sidewalk, so they can AVOID eye contact with one another. However, humans are social beings, and much of the younger generation that are now MMO addicts with the rest of us look for their social interaction online.

SE is smart enough not piss off their JP base with a game that is nothing like what their JP players want. Yes, SE will make the game more casual; something it needs. Cowboy, the option to solo to 75 is already here. Campaign and FoV make this incredibly easy. it's just not done much because hell, i forgot FoV was there for a long ass time.

Good things to take from WoW:
questing. something that FFXI lacks to make content more solo friendly, is quests. yes sure they're usually just grindy, but they help. foVs essentially quests, without the fun text.
crafting. Cowboy, you complain the WoW crafting can be leveled up in a few hours ,and you wont make money from it. Yes, if you are already level 80 and have a few thousand gold to spend, sure, you can cap a new craft skill in a day. But that requires you blow insane amounts of money on the AH. and so what if you wont make money from it? that's not the point of crafting in WoW. WoW's crafting system is more designed for helping the player using the craft than for making money. Example.. leveling up my druid, i used Herbalism/Alchemy. all gathering crafts (herbalism, enchanting sort of, Mining, fishing, ect) can be used for good money because they are BASE ingredients. if i was broke, i sold some of my herbs for money and was good. Because i was alchemy, i always had a constant supply of mana pots and health poits and my favorite buff pots (no mage with me? i have Arcane Intelligence in a bottle! Am i soloing? DEF elixir! am i in a group? My +Healing elixir!) At 80, i swapped and began using Enchanting and Inscription. Enchanters get special enchants they giveo nly to themselves: ring enchants. I was a healing druid, so i enchanted my rings with +Healing. Inscriptionists got special enchants for their shoulder items. They had some they could give to anyone, and they had powerfull ones they could only give to themselves. With those two together, i had a very strong buff to my healing, and had some utility on both. My guild needed enchanting or specific inscriptions made, i was their man.

Leatherworking got special things, smithing got special things.. all of them did. the point was that every craft had a use for you, no matter what class you played. and I loved that. I could have went with Leatherworking for special glove enchants and leg enchants. or i could go with smithing, to add extra gem slots to my equipment. I just prefer Inscription and Enchanting.


you also comment that the Raid UI system added into WoW only came later, and that it first required player made additions, and you dont want that in FFXI: I ask you this.. why?

One of the BEST things WoW ever did was open the LUA scripting system to the public. They were able to maintain it by all addons having their scripts checked by the ingame engine for anything that could be potentially dangerous, and it gave WoW ideas of what their players wanted. When EVERY SINGLE RAIDER in the game is using an addon to have a Raid UI, Blizz had the intelligence to say "hey. this is a really good idea!" I personally did not like the look and feel of Blizz's built in UI, so i used one i downloaded and then customized to my liking. QuestHelper was great for quest grinding because I hated quest grinding and it removed alot of the tedium of wiki-ing where certain mobs were, or where i had to go next. No addon was able to be gamebreaking or drastically altering because it used a system that Blizz created and MAINTAINED.

and soon to be Aion are absolutely flourishing in this western market

Alot of the western market are extremely excited about Aoin. Personally, i hate 90% of all MMOs that are made in korean because they're the biggest grindfest bullshit ever and Aion appears the same to be, but Aion is the first one of its kind to receive some real publicity amongst MMO players. It has a shot.


Also, there is a difference between wanting to play your best, and elitism. In FFXI or WoW, i want to play my best. I theorycraft, i crunch numbers, i learn all the little things to make me a better player. On WoW i visited elitistjerks and numbercrunched all of my healign formulas to the point i knew every little detail about my spells, and alot of my boyfriend's shaman's spells. However, i didnt become an asshole. i didnt become cookie cutter. I still carried my "for fun" bear and kitty gear around for shits and giggles, i still loved doing raids that didnt give me anything because they were fun to do.

elitists try to play their best, and let it make them into assholes who look down on others. The rest of us try to play our best, without being like that.

[Brayker]

I'm waiting to see how many people see something similar to WoW in any way in XIV and shout "WOW CLONE WOOOOOOW CLOOONE!" *turns it off*

What people don't seem to realize is that alot of the things in WoW... dont BELONG to WoW specifically. I'm playing in the AION closed betas right now and I see alot of similarities to what we see in WoW but I realize that they were in other games too. The enemy health/mana bar system started in everquest, the 'go here kill these' fetch quests started in everquest (I think) along with the 'Arrow over the head quest giver/turner-iner' system.

The only reason people think that other MMOs stealing from WoW is because thats the only experience that they've had with an MMO and the fact that its the most popular one atm. So they think that what they see in WoW was created by Blizzard and is the first of its kind that people are trying to leech off of. I believe thats why FFXI isn't as popular as WoW, simply because it didn't take the 'popular' formulas that most other MMO's use. SE wanted something different, love it or hate it its there.

[Vigilous]

LOTRO, AoC, Warhammer and soon to be Aion are absolutely flourishing in this western market.

Actually, they are. And Aion is developed by the same people who developed City of Heroes/Villains, which is enjoying pretty good success atm.

Honestly, if your idea of "success" is a few commercials involving z-list actors and an aging, drug-addled rocker, you need to have your head examined.

And here's a protip for: WoW actually doesn't have 10 million subscribers.

[Kleiner]

And here's a protip for: WoW actually doesn't have 10 million subscribers.

it has 10 million accounts. Active, or inactive, they account them all~

[Ariakas]

The problem with the ability to solo your way to a max level is simply this... You don't have the opportunity to learn your class the way it was intended to be played. For example, anyone that has ever gotten a character to a cap level in Warcraft, whether it be level 60 in vanilla, 70 in Burning Crusade, or 80 in Wrath of the Lich King, AND has done instance runs or especially raids, knows that there are about a bazillion hunters (and the case now, death knights) but only a very, VERY small percentage of the hunter/death knight population can handle their jobs the way they were meant to be played. Why those 2 jobs in particular? You can literally use about 3 abilities of your entire ability list and get to level 80 without blinking an eye.

I've gotten to 80 and had a new healer or tank get a group killed in a REGULAR instance, not even heroic, due to lack of knowledge of the class. Does this mean they won't or can't get better? No, of course not. I've seen DPS warriors go from 800 dps to 3k+ dps in literally overnight by doing a bit of research... but is it sad that you have to get to cap level before you even start to learn your class? Yes. That's what's good about FFXI... in GENERAL, you learn your class early and continue to learn the class as you level... the success of the group depends on it. Does this mean there are never terrible high level players in FFXI? Of course not. To assume so would just be ignorant... but I can promise you this... I have seen many.. MANY more competant players lvl 60+ in FFXI than I ever saw at level 80 in Warcraft. This is not an understatement and it is not a biased one. I have years under my belt with both games because I tend to bounce between the 2. Both games have their fantastic players and both have their terrible ones... but the ratio of good, and even competant players, is much better in FFXI.

Now people can argue that in WoW, you can run instances to help your skill as you level, and with that, you are 110% correct... but that further proves the point that 100% soloing is bad for learning your job. I'm sure there are several people out there that think that they soloed to 80 100% and was perfect with their class when they hit capped level. To you, I ask that you put the glass down, for you've had one too many glasses of crazy.

[MattelotLeviathan]

Funny story about the friend thing, you know how many people will kiss your ass and ask to be your friend if you level BRD?

That was the case in FFXI... people who you could care less about are all-the-sudden your best buddy because you're a Brd. I still hope Brd is a playable job in FFXIV just because I loved its utility and I never sat around waiting for invites Then again... it could be in FFXIV and not be as wanted as FFXI. We'll see

[Shippou]

The problem with the ability to solo your way to a max level is simply this... You don't have the opportunity to learn your class the way it was intended to be played. For example, anyone that has ever gotten a character to a cap level in Warcraft, whether it be level 60 in vanilla, 70 in Burning Crusade, or 80 in Wrath of the Lich King, AND has done instance runs or especially raids, knows that there are about a bazillion hunters (and the case now, death knights) but only a very, VERY small percentage of the hunter/death knight population can handle their jobs the way they were meant to be played. Why those 2 jobs in particular? You can literally use about 3 abilities of your entire ability list and get to level 80 without blinking an eye.

I've gotten to 80 and had a new healer or tank get a group killed in a REGULAR instance, not even heroic, due to lack of knowledge of the class. Does this mean they won't or can't get better? No, of course not. I've seen DPS warriors go from 800 dps to 3k+ dps in literally overnight by doing a bit of research... but is it sad that you have to get to cap level before you even start to learn your class? Yes. That's what's good about FFXI... in GENERAL, you learn your class early and continue to learn the class as you level... the success of the group depends on it. Does this mean there are never terrible high level players in FFXI? Of course not. To assume so would just be ignorant... but I can promise you this... I have seen many.. MANY more competant players lvl 60+ in FFXI than I ever saw at level 80 in Warcraft. This is not an understatement and it is not a biased one. I have years under my belt with both games because I tend to bounce between the 2. Both games have their fantastic players and both have their terrible ones... but the ratio of good, and even competant players, is much better in FFXI.

Now people can argue that in WoW, you can run instances to help your skill as you level, and with that, you are 110% correct... but that further proves the point that 100% soloing is bad for learning your job. I'm sure there are several people out there that think that they soloed to 80 100% and was perfect with their class when they hit capped level. To you, I ask that you put the glass down, for you've had one too many glasses of crazy.

Most people do not only solo to 80. Most run instances on the way up there. Really, if you want to talk about people sucking ass, let's talk about the majority of RDMs that apparently don't have the Refresh spell. Let's talk about the NINs that can't blink tank at level 75. Let's talk about the WHMs that still don't know how to heal efficiently.

People don't understand that yes, you're going to come across a lot more idiots on any given WoW server, why? Because there are millions of more players than in FFXI, so yes, the odds of you seeing more morons are going to increase.

Also, lol at the western market comment from Cowboy. Like someone else pointed out, your comment made no sense, at all. Western culture is very much into the, "I'll do it myself" mentality, unlike Eastern culture.

[Whitney]

I have no qualms at all regarding solo play being more prevalent the next time around, though it would be rather counter productive in an MMO to have NO necessary combining of forces.

At least make things doable with a small, cohesive group rather than an alliance of 18 people and 20 more standing around for a given HNM, who are all out to get the one or two uber items everyone there has a massive erection for, and have to try for months or years to struggle and keep a dkp high enough to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the item even though your job or school won't allow you to make the events that people with no obligations can all the time...meaning you can never freaking catch up, unless you join some JP shell that does things in the morning, and good luck communicating...

I'd like to see groups closer to the usual Final Fantasy party system- 3 or 4 players, preferably each with a key role, fewer jobs- 8 to 12, but expand on the importance of the jobs more so than 'trying to keep them all on equal footing'- make strategy and party planning far more important than just throwing 18+ people at it, most of which are Sam's or Blm's. You would have a key tank (Paladin or Warrior), a key healer (Whm or Rdm), a key DD (Monk, Warrior, Summoner should really be one as well, though in more of the back-line BIG spike damage way)- I'm talking Bahamut spiraling down out of the clouds and using Megaflare for more dmg than any Blm spell, but at a higher MP cost- or rather, he fights for X amount of time or MP, then uses his ultimate, or Phoenix reviving and doing a moderate amount of fire damage, etc. Summoning became that thing you do real quick to unload a BP, then release it until the BP timer is up again. I don't think that's right. Either the Summoner should disappear and BECOME the avatar with it's own set of moves, or the Summon should fight with you until MP or timer is up then use a big move. Beyond that key DD, you'd have a final 'specialist' job, depending on the fight. Thf for hate control and stealing (and Steal should be made a much more important JA, perhaps the only way to get some items), or Time Mage to majorly slow the enemy, or haste the party, or cast Float, etc...Ninja should not be a tank, but more of a stealth expert who relies on throwing items a lot more...you get the idea.

I do hope Uematsu does the area music as well... SE has forgotten, of late, how much of a role music plays in a scene or area to make it more memorable. What is the Sephiroth fight without One Winged Angel? Cosmo Canyon Without Red XIII's theme? Ultimecia without Fithos Lusec? The Opera house in VI without the music? No Dragon theme in V? I could go on. Music is just as important as visuals at times.

Oh, and what the crap happened to scan? It'd be nice to read an enemy's HP%, weaknesses, family, etc. One more thing...f#ckin' Chocobo breeding and racing. None of that trading cards crap, or watching from the sideline and hoping your bird wins. Let us build their stats and breed better, faster ones based on rank of parents, color, food, culminating in a Gold Chocobo (an idea that worked so well they made a spin-off of it that we sadly never got in the US...I still downloaded Chocobo Stallion though!).

[firefeng]

Actually, they are. And Aion is developed by the same people who developed City of Heroes/Villains, which is enjoying pretty good success atm.

Honestly, if your idea of "success" is a few commercials involving z-list actors and an aging, drug-addled rocker, you need to have your head examined.

And here's a protip for: WoW actually doesn't have 10 million subscribers.

NCsoft didn't develop CoH, Cryptic did. NCsoft bought the rights and maintains it; it's famous for being the steward of MMOs, f2p or otherwise. Likewise, NCsoft didn't develop Aion, a Korean-grind MMO company did, and if you've played one Korean/Chinese WoW-copy, you've played 'em all. I greatly doubt Aion will exhibit anywhere near the success of even FFXI, much less WoW.

[Crispleaf]

That was the case in FFXI... people who you could care less about are all-the-sudden your best buddy because you're a Brd. I still hope Brd is a playable job in FFXIV just because I loved its utility and I never sat around waiting for invites Then again... it could be in FFXIV and not be as wanted as FFXI. We'll see

You spoony bard!

Actually, it would be nice if no matter what job you took you'd always be welcome in a party.

[Velhart]

At least safe to assume that 14 won't use WoW's interface system that almost every MMO has ripped off of. Since we use a PS3 controller for the game, would imagine using a WoW interface with a controller can be quite difficult.

There are some certain elements WoW has that I wish they imply in 14, but not "that" much.

[MattelotLeviathan]

You spoony bard!

That comment never gets old I hope they add FFV to the virtual console...

Actually, it would be nice if no matter what job you took you'd always be welcome in a party.

I agree and hopefully they'll have learned from that mistake. All those poor Dragoons way back in the day thought their job was awesome... which it was fun to level and play, but end-game, you didn't do much but be forced to sit out while being told you HAD to show up. I even felt sorry for a one particular Drg who came to everything and someone actually had the balls to tell them "why don't you level a real job so you're actually useful?"

At least safe to assume that 14 won't use WoW's interface system that almost every MMO has ripped off of. Since we use a PS3 controller for the game, would imagine using a WoW interface with a controller can be quite difficult.

There are some certain elements WoW has that I wish they imply in 14, but not "that" much.

I'm pretty sure when they said "aspects of WoW" that they were referring to the more swift combat phases. In FFXI, battles took so long but in WoW, you could plow through mobs, spam buttons for different moves instead of waiting for TP and/or CD timers.

[Corrderio]

They probably will add FF4 to the VC, however I hae a bad feeling in my gut they'll call it FF2 when Nintendo slaps it on the VC

[MattelotLeviathan]

I could care less what they call it, but adding it would be cool because it was classic. From what i've read, SE are being very stubborn about it. Why wouldn't you want to? It's more income on a game that has not been popular in damn near 20 years. VC is one of the smartest things Nintendo added to the Wii.

[Corrderio]

FF1 has been confirmed to come to the US. Whereas JP already has FF1/2 out.

I hope to god we get the NES titles though, I'd gladly pay 15 dollars for each if FF3 came to the VC.

[MattelotLeviathan]

The NES titles would be cool and i'd buy them. Getting the two SNES ones (US releases) would be extra cool since those were back in my glory gaming years. I have them both on ROMs but they're just not the same as playing them on your TV with a controller.