[pathwriter]

I'd been thinking about that and, really, the advantage I like from using a bow over a crossbow or gun is that I can actually stand back and ping the mob without losing damage. Since I don't have a Kraken Club, being in melee range or damn near it on anything with AoE is a nuisance at best and death at worst (nothing like Sweep in Dynamis to make me hate playing melee, especially with how I pull aggro on my DD jobs). It's a situational advantage, like most advantages in this game are, but as I've had to deal with imps lately, being able to pop off Sidewinder and Barrage to take down the mob when it really needs to die has been a great deal more helpful than losing damage for firing from too far away or being close and nailed constantly with Abrasive Tantara.

[Greeber]

Why are people so up in arms over trying to outclass Ebow with this augment crap, when Obow has been doing it for years?

because there isent a fey crossbow to compare to Obow?

Imola, i like how u post a DL pic when u said u can do 4k to a lolbri w/o a cor. And also that pic dosent prove what weapon u were using, it just shows ur dmg output lol.

Ive never really looked into this...but i belive theres a cap u to the amount of dmg u can do to a certian type of monster. Take a wild rabbit in east ronfaure, u can blast those bunnys for 3k easy w/o any extra buffs (ex: zerk, warcry, brd/cor songs/rolls). But if u try to add any of those buffs and blast the same bunny, ur dmg will be the same regardless of what buffs u have up.

Ive tried it before, just for shits and giggles, and i could never do more no matter what str/att boost i added. I even went as far to add a coeurl sub to the mix and i still dident do more then 3.4k.

And on another note...wouldent a 4k slugwinder one shot a greater colibri? lol.

[samir]

we had this topic more than enough times so i won't go with details, obow has never outclassed ebow, obow is better in some situations (hi2u acid bolt) ebow is better in others (most endgame activity), that's all about it.

personal preferance + playstile decides what you use. have fun with it.

[Kaparu]

because there isent a fey crossbow to compare to Obow?

Imola, i like how u post a DL pic when u said u can do 4k to a lolbri w/o a cor. And also that pic dosent prove what weapon u were using, it just shows ur dmg output lol.

Ive never really looked into this...but i belive theres a cap u to the amount of dmg u can do to a certian type of monster. Take a wild rabbit in east ronfaure, u can blast those bunnys for 3k easy w/o any extra buffs (ex: zerk, warcry, brd/cor songs/rolls). But if u try to add any of those buffs and blast the same bunny, ur dmg will be the same regardless of what buffs u have up.

Ive tried it before, just for shits and giggles, and i could never do more no matter what str/att boost i added. I even went as far to add a coeurl sub to the mix and i still dident do more then 3.4k.

And on another note...wouldent a 4k slugwinder one shot a greater colibri? lol.

Ranged attack isn't going to increase your damage against a Wild Rabbit, your pDIF is long since capped. The fact that you eventually do end up capping your ability to raise damage in that way could lead you to believe it was 'capping', but adding strength will always keep upping it.

[Villian]

I use my gay fendawa with +4str/12ratt/ws damage +4% most of the time now due to my hatred toward salvage and refuse to do salvage. 5 hits build with /sam/mekki/rose strap/brutal/rajas/cobra feet, will upgrade to hachi legs/feet soon. Can do ACP body with snapshot/stp/ebow but I feel like I need racc on stuff like ixion/jol/etc. (8sword/8club/4gun merits)

[Hoshiku]

what makes you say that pic is shopped? culverin + cannon shells was already doing very comparable damage on DL. I have no idea what kinds of numbers ebow does on DL because my shell requires culverin but I'd imagine it does fairly high numbers as well.

[Greeber]

Ranged attack isn't going to increase your damage against a Wild Rabbit, your pDIF is long since capped. The fact that you eventually do end up capping your ability to raise damage in that way could lead you to believe it was 'capping', but adding strength will always keep upping it.

Good to know. it was years ago when i did it (when i first got my osode lol)

what makes you say that pic is shopped? culverin + cannon shells was already doing very comparable damage on DL. I have no idea what kinds of numbers ebow does on DL because my shell requires culverin but I'd imagine it does fairly high numbers as well.

P.S. Merit wise I have 5/5 STR, 3 on Archery, just made it 4 few minutes ago from the merit pt. I have to merit down marksmanship since that was at 4 merits. everytime I add a merit on Archery have to bring down a merif of maks since I used to be a marksmanship whore. Bullets just got too expensive for me >.> and I had E-bow too. Working on capping Snapshot, and rapidshot have few merit on them, but I maxed out my MNK first so and I hate meriting..

well i thought it was a compareson between fey and E/Vbow dont know y he would post a DL pic, especially when he claimed to break 4k w/o a cor and he dosent even have capped merits for rng.

[Jiyo]

what makes you say that pic is shopped? culverin + cannon shells was already doing very comparable damage on DL. I have no idea what kinds of numbers ebow does on DL because my shell requires culverin but I'd imagine it does fairly high numbers as well.

Because:

*Fay Gendawa DMG 72, absolute best Augments = STR+5, WS DMG+5%, Rng Att negligible when capped pDIF (unless Fay Gendawa has some unknown hidden factor of making pDIF not cap)
*Patriarch Protector's Arrow DMG 40, Again Rng Att negligible
*Capped fSTR = 32
*Highest possible WSC would be around 35-40, lets use 40 to say he has the best gear possible.
*Assume he has Anwig Salade with WS DMG+2%, for a total of WS DMG+7%

(72+40+32+40) = 184

Assume he uses sea gorget,

184*5.1*3 = 2814

Add in the WS DMG+7%,

2814*1.07 = 3010~

Choke, Angon and Dia account towards fSTR/pDIF, so don't say "Dia 3 will make it do more dmg". Also, don't say "Well I've seen ppl do 3k+ on Colibri before". That's because there's a 1.25 piercing bonus towards Colibri. So, unless this guy knows something nobody else knows, or he had an OBSCENE amount of Rng Att and Fey Gendawa ignores the normal pDIF cap, he shopped that DL shot. Cannon Shell + Culverin+1 barely reaches the 3k mark with the best gear/buffs. It is pretty much impossible to do more than 3.1k dmg on any normal monster with any ranged weapon.

[Kaparu]

For fuck's sake people, look at the damage of the people around him. Half of the things required to produce such an ungodly amount of damage would be benefiting everyone, which is clearly not the case.

[pathwriter]

For fuck's sake people, look at the damage of the people around him. Half of the things required to produce such an ungodly amount of damage would be benefiting everyone, which is clearly not the case.

This. I saw the damage on Tachi: Gekko and immediately lost interest. With full zerg buffs/debuffs, a Samurai would have to be damned near naked to do that little damage (along with everyone else) while he's popping off an impossible Sidewinder.

[Lambtor]

i think the only possible way you can break 5k on DL is flashy shot barrage w/AF+1 hands and a relic. 5k on MCP final boss? sure.

[Spider-Dan]

what makes you say that pic is shopped?

Let's suppose the poster in question is Elvaan RNG/WAR with full STR merits, and the aforementioned STR+3/RATK+14/WSDMG+3% Fey Gendawa. With the best possible gear in the game, you would have:

STR 74+71
AGI 66+30

Let's presume capped fSTR2 (+32 for D72 bow) and a PPA, as well as capped pDIF and no level-penalty (Flashy Shot).

max Sidewinder damage = [(72+40) + (32) + int(int[(145 * 0.16) + (96 * 0.25)] * 0.83) * 5.1] * 3 * 1.05 (for Fey/Anwig +WSDMG)
= (112 + 32 + 39) * 5.1 * 3 * 1.05
= 2939 max damage against neutral target
= 3673 max damage against piercing-weak target (e.g. colibri)

This is why I knew that he was lying about Sidewindering G.Colibri for 4k damage; you can't even Sidewinder a LV0 Tiny Mandragora for that much. (And that's with the best gear in the game; with the stats that Imola posted, the best you can do, presuming still-capped fSTR2, is 2787 vs. neutral/3483 vs. piercing-weak.)

So re: 5.8k WS on DL, one of two things is the case:

1) DL takes some sort of undocumented extra damage
2) shoop da woop

In either case, pic is mightily irrelevant.

[Antithesis]

Isn't Marksmanship (as a general term for Gun and Crossbow) the overall better weapon for Ranger instead of Bow? The only situations where I find bow more useful than Marksmanship is during a kited fight or one that requires you to stay at a fairly long distance to avoid AoE's.

[pathwriter]

The only situations where I find bow more useful than Marksmanship is during a kited fight or one that requires you to stay at a fairly long distance to avoid AoE's.

Which describes, what, every fight in the game except for merits?

[Villian]

Ixion, Odin, Jailer of prud?, jailer of something?, toau kings, Sandworms doomvoid NMs?, all that's in my head atm. You can still use obow but i think bow does more damage per shot after certain distance? i'm not sure about it

[Kaparu]

You don't need to be that far away for most of those mobs.

[Lambtor]

i don't know many good shells that'll let you TP vs Khim as RNG. nobody fights hydra. cerberus they'll usually ask you to come as a mage job instead and throw SAMs at it.

prudence's aoes are often absorbed by shadows. most other jailers actually take an ok amount of additional dmg from holy bolts, unlike sky gods (including prudence). you're best served by a longbow vs love though.

ixion and odin are where longbow really shine. doomvoid NMs i can understand, but prefering archery over marksmanship takes away your ability to SC the other half of light if you sacrifice access to trueflight. TF > atonement is a handy SC for those mobs; especially if you've decided to go mage heavy for damage.

thread is derailed. e-bow is the best you can get unless you've got yoichi.

[Villian]

You can get away with ixion with obow if you use distance plug in to know where to stand. Also I agreed on xbow is extremly useful for SC purpose esp with 5 hits /sam. Was able to keep up with a sam on Sandworm/guivre on distortion SC, Trueflight > Gekko or Trueflight > kasha. Also agreed on e/vbow is best bow till relic but I'm still using fay gendawa b/c it's easier to get 5 hits build with it w/o gimping myself too much on racc.

[Greeber]

any self respecting rng should have both a V/E/S bow and an Obow anyway. its all just left to player prefrence. i think path said it best, SE will never release weapons to be V/Ebow, hagun or destroyers. they will make compareable ones but its been years now and they never did.

[Spider-Dan]

Which describes, what, every fight in the game except for merits?

Not DL, Baha v2, Kirin, or any other zerg fight.
Not Proto-Ultima, Fafhogg, KS99 Wyrm, or any other fight where holy effect is not heavily resisted.

Furthermore, there are a lot of attacks like Floodlight, Ululation, Veil of Chaos, etc. which require you to stand out far enough (15-20'+) that bow's distance benefit is essentially lost.