[Killataru]

ok so the other day i got a random augment from that chest:

Nitid Choker
Attack +1 (for me)
Pet Accuracy +3 Ranged Attack +3

Thought great until realized I'm using a Sacrifice Torque in my BP Physical Macros. Now I'm also working on Phys Acc Merits (2 so far, might drop for magic not sure yet). I'm just curious if people think the +3 is worth using this instead of the attack boost from the sac torque? I've always thought Acc was prefered but....

[Meian]

ok so the other day i got a random augment from that chest:

Nitid Choker
Attack +1 (for me)
Pet Accuracy +3 Ranged Attack +3

Thought great until realized I'm using a Sacrifice Torque in my BP Physical Macros. Now I'm also working on Phys Acc Merits (2 so far, might drop for magic not sure yet). I'm just curious if people think the +3 is worth using this instead of the attack boost from the sac torque? I've always thought Acc was prefered but....

Summoner Torque??

[Killataru]

it's +7 smn magic, wouldn't +3 pet acc be better for accuracy boost? what's the ratio again?

Also is there a cap for smn magic boosts?

[Meian]

Had always been told (and read somewhere I can't remember now) that each SMN skill over cap was 1 ACC (I assume magic acc as well).

Magic boost? You mean MAB?

Hmm, I assume SMN merits count as over cap lol

[Umisame]

Nitid Choker with pet acc+3 can be good when avatar melee, for BP change it to smn. torque.

[DarkRift]

I am a firm believer of sac torque for Physical BP's, and Summoning torque for magical BP's. The only reason to macro summoing torque in for Physical Bp's is for the added acc.

in terms of pure acc... imo... Summoning torque > w/e it is your wearing.


Also for merits I would do Physical Att, and Magical Att 5/5 .... or maybe Magical attack, and magical acc 5/5... Physical BP's with proper smn magic skill gear and merits should be enough that you do not need those merits in acc. Magical BP's (the merit ones) rock, and with proper gear and merits are pretty impressive. I was able to out nuke a full Morrigan blm (single nuke, on sharks in sea).

[Pergatory]

Had always been told (and read somewhere I can't remember now) that each SMN skill over cap was 1 ACC (I assume magic acc as well).

There is no logic behind this assumption. No one has ever posted ANY testing, let alone testing that hinted at 1 smn skill = 1 accuracy. Someone just made it up. There's no way to know whether 7 skill is better or worse than 3 accuracy, but it doesn't much matter since I agree with DarkRift that Sacrifice Torque is the way to go for physical BP's.

[AphriniTheGreat]

umm...Sac torque...for the BPs at least if you want to use the acc for your avatar when it is out fighting then sure, go for that but for the BP Sac torque all the way.

[Meian]

Varies for how evasive the mob is. Sac torque increase is minimal on its own. If the mob isn't evasive or if not using multihit BP, then sac torque. Otherwise, better safe than sorry with SMN torque

Btw, no need for hostility Perg

[AphriniTheGreat]

Varies for how evasive the mob is. Sac torque increase is minimal on its own. If the mob isn't evasive or if not using multihit BP, then sac torque. Otherwise, better safe than sorry with SMN torque

I have to respectfully disagree on this, the minimal you are talking about is about an average of 100-300 more dmg per pact be it Pred claws or spinning dive on VT imp type mobs per what I have tested myself on this. that would roughly be 10-30% ish more damage. Also our avatar acc is very high to begin with and with merits/ acc gear to put acc over attk I believe to be counter intuitive. I do generally use my Smn torque while letting the avatar melee for the very slight, and it is slight acc bonus it gives but on the physical pacts using anything other than Sac torque is silly.

[Meian]

I have to respectfully disagree on this, the minimal you are talking about is about an average of 100-300 more dmg per pact be it Pred claws or spinning dive on VT imp type mobs per what I have tested myself on this. that would roughly be 10-30% ish more damage. Also our avatar acc is very high to begin with and with merits/ acc gear to put acc over attk I believe to be counter intuitive. I do generally use my Smn torque while letting the avatar melee for the very slight, and it is slight acc bonus it gives but on the physical pacts using anything other than Sac torque is silly.

I used both repeatively on the same mobs and saw a small increase (WITH afv2 boots) of about 100-200 max.

Before the update for SMN magic, landing Predator claws on evasive crap like Kirin and such made it impossible. It is just "silly" to use something else on such evasive mobs unless you enjoy going back to using only Spinning Dive.

[Killataru]

Hmm good tips for an against in here, I think I'll stick with sac torque for bp physicals.. seems like the general consensus however would be to use smn torque for acc instead of the +3 from this neck piece if I was to go that route. One less item to carry about, thanks ppls

As for Merits DarkRift I'm leaning towards full magic loadout, I find I use my 5/5 Magic BP's more and more these days, especially with some of the gear we're getting.

[AphriniTheGreat]

I used both repeatively on the same mobs and saw a small increase (WITH afv2 boots) of about 100-200 max.

Before the update for SMN magic, landing Predator claws on evasive crap like Kirin and such made it impossible. It is just "silly" to use something else on such evasive mobs unless you enjoy going back to using only Spinning Dive.

....no no you are right on those many occasions when you often bump into you know, gods, and hnms and such you know like when you are walking around saruta and such then yeah...but on the very rare occasions you are not going up against the god of gods then yeah use the sac torque >.<.

You make a valid argument on things like Kirin or Odin or any other HNM or god type mob however even in those situations I have not really had too much a problem with my ACC, I have full merits in ACC plus my gear and have little problems with missing. Your point however definitely stands in these situations because they are VERY high in evasion, but it is "silly" to imply that it should be the norm which is what you were implying in your posts.

[Acturus]

....no no you are right on those many occasions when you often bump into you know, gods, and hnms and such you know like when you are walking around saruta and such then yeah...but on the very rare occasions you are not going up against the god of gods then yeah use the sac torque >.<.

You make a valid argument on things like Kirin or Odin or any other HNM or god type mob however even in those situations I have not really had too much a problem with my ACC, I have full merits in ACC plus my gear and have little problems with missing. Your point however definitely stands in these situations because they are VERY high in evasion, but it is "silly" to imply that it should be the norm which is what you were implying in your posts.

If you don't have capped Accuracy (~95%), then equipping accuracy is a good idea when considering multi-hit bloodpacts.

What's the point in getting an extra 100 damage on the first two swings of Predator Claws only to miss the third?

And there are a great many mobs between Sarutabaruta and Halzaham Testing Grounds. Seeing as how Avatar base accuracy on merit mobs hovers around 75%, I'd not be so quick to dismiss the value of a Summoning Torque on non-HNMs.

[Pergatory]

If you don't have capped Accuracy (~95%), then equipping accuracy is a good idea when considering multi-hit bloodpacts.

What's the point in getting an extra 100 damage on the first two swings of Predator Claws only to miss the third?

While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, in practice it can be quite misleading, particularly when applied to Summoner theory as the mechanics of Summoner are notoriously mysterious and damn near impossible to test.

To clarify what I mean, we have no idea what kind of accuracy boost the Summoning Torque gives, and so it's foolish to conclude that just because Smn Torque gives accuracy and Sac Torque gives attack, that the Smn Torque is superior unless you have capped accuracy. I would not be surprised at all if the relation between summoning skill & avatar accuracy ends up in the neighborhood of 3:1, that is to say that every 3 skill = 1 accuracy. If this is true, an avatar's accuracy would have to be utterly abysmal for the Summoning Torque to perform better than Sacrifice Torque. I'd much rather have +50 damage per hit than +2 accuracy.

Of course this is moot since we don't even know what accuracy boost Summoning Torque grants, and even if we did we have no real understanding of how to calculate avatar damage or measure what kind of effect Sacrifice Torque actually has. So it's just a case of the blind leading the blind; use what your experience tells you is better. But I want to caution against adopting an "accuracy > attack" demeanor across the board. It's all guesswork for Summoners at this point. We don't have enough info to say X accuracy is equal to Z attack under ABC conditions like the melees are able to do.

[Acturus]

While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, in practice it can be quite misleading, particularly when applied to Summoner theory as the mechanics of Summoner are notoriously mysterious and damn near impossible to test.

To clarify what I mean, we have no idea what kind of accuracy boost the Summoning Torque gives, and so it's foolish to conclude that just because Smn Torque gives accuracy and Sac Torque gives attack, that the Smn Torque is superior unless you have capped accuracy. I would not be surprised at all if the relation between summoning skill & avatar accuracy ends up in the neighborhood of 3:1, that is to say that every 3 skill = 1 accuracy. If this is true, an avatar's accuracy would have to be utterly abysmal for the Summoning Torque to perform better than Sacrifice Torque. I'd much rather have +50 damage per hit than +2 accuracy.

Of course this is moot since we don't even know what accuracy boost Summoning Torque grants, and even if we did we have no real understanding of how to calculate avatar damage or measure what kind of effect Sacrifice Torque actually has. So it's just a case of the blind leading the blind; use what your experience tells you is better. But I want to caution against adopting an "accuracy > attack" demeanor across the board. It's all guesswork for Summoners at this point. We don't have enough info to say X accuracy is equal to Z attack under ABC conditions like the melees are able to do.

It's almost as if you're suggesting that a couple Summoners go out and test this type of stuff, isn't it?

[AphriniTheGreat]

...well i guess the best thing would be to say is know your Mobs?? Well most summoners DON'T which is horrible and your most experienced summoners already practice this, the underlying question was which is better to which I suppose the correct answer is it depends BUT most the time Saq Torque for physical pacts over Smn torque but make sure you know your MOBS and how they react, also how often you miss...I don't generally ergo for me Saq almost always.