[Demoncrest]

Well well long time no see everyone on KI! Hope that everyone is doing well and yes I am pretty much back from the dead, I haven't been playing FFXI for a couple of years now and have just been toying around with D2 since there isnt much else worthy of playing right now imho (FFXI is an exception, I don't feel like re-dedicating myself and remaking my chars lol).

Anyways! Sorry for the lengthly intro, the main point of this is now that I was wandering back onto these forums, I noticed there is a FFXIV forum now WOOHOOO!!! So this is my take on how the "Job" (it's in quotes since SE says there are no "Jobs") System should be like!!!



** Please note all examples are just for the use of explaining... I am in no way saying each ability that I mention deserves to be in FFXIV etc. lol **



Theory/Intro:
Alright, so the main thing my theory/outlook is based upon is how FFXIV devs have announced that abilities/character growth are more-so based on the weapons that you equip which determine how your character grows. With that being said, in my mind using old FF systems (they will surely add their own new twists but for simplicity sake), filtering around with that leaves the ability based system through weapons in FFTactics, and mainly FFIX in my mind.

Speculations:
I believe that in order to make a character grow according to the weapons that they have equipped it will have to be like above noted FFT or FFIX, in the way that let's say I equip a basic rod it will have basic BLM spells, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder or, if I was to equip a basic sword it would have Power Break for example. With this being said, I believe that each weapon will be used much like a job class, in otherwords people learning many abilities from shields will be following the path of a Paladin for example.

In FFT we did have job classes which then learn different abilities from different weapons for example daggers would likely have Thief abilities, while fencing swords would likely have Red Mage abilities. So from here, I believe that this is how the weapons will grow your character into the "Path" so-to-speak of becoming that job class, even though there is no set job-classes.

The other thing that I would like to speak about would be how they say certain tier abilities would be used for each weapon as well, or to quote from Tanaka's interview, "Whatever weapon you equip will change the commands you have. For example, I have a sword equipped now, once I equip a staff the commands automatically changes to magic ones". I believe that along with the abilities contained in each piece of equipment, there will be a set type of skills per equipment as he notes here. Having a mace for example may activate the Green Magic and Geomancer Abilities, and then the individual maces will have their own uniques abilities which you would learn from.

FFXIV announced that as you learn different abilities and go along through however you grow your character, you will gain different titles which makes sense like this. If you are to learn 5+ abilities from great katanas and have one equipped, you will be given a title of "Samurai" for example. All that this truly shows is that you choose to favor in that ability tree therefore are considered to be following the path of the Samurai.

How Would It Play Out?:
Well, so let us do a quick summary here involving some FFXI character models, Paladin for example:

Headgear: A holy helm of some sort, may give Clear mind-like, healer traits.
Body: A thicker plated armor would give more tanking traits such as an HP+ xxx trait.
Main-Hand: 1-Handed Sword any basic war/pld/dd abilities
Off-Hand: Shields would likely contain abilities in them to learn such as Provoke, Cover, Rampart, Sentinel for example sake.

other slots for equipment may just be simple and not contain abilities, rings may contain Poison Resistance+ etc., or hell maybe to be 100% with what they have said so far (as of Alpha), ONLY weapons/offhands (shield being the exception) would contain abilities.

A Rough Outline Of My Thoughts:
1H/2H Swords -> Warrior/Gladiator job path
Daggers -> Thief job path
Rods/Staves -> BLM/WHM job path
Maces -> Geomancer/GreenMage job path
Fencing Swords -> Red Mage job path
Scythes -> DRK job path
Shields -> Paladin job path
Rings -> Open up status resistance options/other traits

Thats a quick outline, I am sure the rest of you can piece together what would be what for example Lances for DRG etc.



How Would Abilities Then Be Learned?:
This is why I mentioned FFIX along with FFTA, because I believe very strongly and ever since I have heard SE announce that character growth will be dependent based on what weapons you equip while you fight, I even placed a bet down with my friends that it will come down to this system.

Abilities if you ask me will be learned through the various weapons "/ equipment" (speculation) in the same manner as FFIX and FFTA where as you fight you would gain Ability Points which are then used towards learning the different abilities which you have active in your weapons and again "equipment".

Other Benefits Of This System?:
Many people say hmmm, I don't think that the sub-job system will make it into FFXIV, and to be honest I completely agree. Why? Because there is no need for a "sub-job" when you potentially have access to any/a large amount of abilities and spells from other classes due to your weapon " / equipment" being what limits you in FFXIV. What this will do is create an easy to equip subclass which we will maybe see even more variety that before since in FFXI, a subjob meant half of one other job's skills. Now it may be an even larger combination of skills from a bunch of different paths you have chosen to level up!

Another point also (one that I am not sure if SE has considered but I will sure lay it out for them) is that using a system like this will benefit crafters and the economy in general. There will no longer be a time when not many people care about crafting lowbie equips because even people of higher levels may need a basic sword or bow to learn a specific ability! Sure maybe there will be some weapon which isnt used often due to some not so needed ability being attached to the item but every item will always have at least a small demand for it. This will help the economy, while always making sure that a wide variety of crafted items are deemed useful instead of only shooting for certain equips. Eventually I understand someone of higher level will only spend time crafting higher level items but at least they know that there will always be a demand since every item will be useful in it's own way!

Random looting from mobs may all of a sudden bestow you with not only a new weapon to use but a new ability to learn that will benefit your class even more!

In Conclusion!
I know towards the last point I was almost sounding like someone who is just making up extra reasons to push his idea further and further like how pushy that damn Sham-Wow guy is on the tv infomercials... lols...

But anyways the main point here is that I hope FFXIV does stick to somewhat of a class oriented ability system/job system even though they have specified many times that there is no such "job-system" implemented.

I am eager to hear each new detail about FFXIV as I am super excited about it but at the same time I have this knot in my stomach about it as well because I don't want SE to go and pursue some idea which actually may ruin the hope for the title... this really is a gut-wrenching experience lol, and hopefully many of you know the feeling I have as well.


All in all I hope this is the system that carries through and that isn't only so I can win the bet with my friends, but so that we can all have one hell of an awesome time playing and enjoying FFXIV TOGETHERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Thanks for reading all!!! Comments and Responses are encouraged

PS:
One last thought about FFXIV that I have to include is that I am not impressed (as far as alpha stage race art and graphics go) for Taru's as they have lost their little itty bittyness and cute values. They no longer look like you want to rough up their hair and pull on their cheeks... they aren't cute anymore ... *runs off and cries yelling "PLEASE FIX IT SE!"*

< / Demoncrest's Mind>

[Demoncrest]

A quick reply to myself here just to make a distinction based on what has been revealed and to explain a bit why this may not work (SE's possible idea) here we go!

As SE has noted abilities are to be dependent based on your weapons that you have currently equipped. Now put aside how I believe it will be in a FFTA / FFIX fashion above, and let's say that equipping a type of weapon just ENABLES various commands that contain abilities (these would be then learned in a different way). For example, equipping a rod enables the use of the "Black Magic" command, or equipping a whm staff would open up the "White Magic" command.

This would be a way to sort of make a community-agreed title of what job class you are playing to use those examples above, playing a Black Mage or a White Mage. But there is one thing that I can see being a problem if this is the case, and that would be solo play.

Without the use of a subjob system, soloing would be messy and cluttered making it more complicated than it would need to be, see this example:

Newcomer A is playing as a "Warrior" using a 2H-Sword, and decides to go off killing things for some exp. When he gets low hp, due to having Sword-family weapon equipped, doesn't have access to even a measly cure spell. This would then mean that just to toss a cure on himself, his macros would have to involve swapping in his whm staff/mace, casting cure, and then swapping back on his sword.

To me that sounds more irritating than benefitial, so I am just noting that hopefully it doesn't turn out to be based more-so like this sytem, and instead is a AP and Weapon based system like FFTA and FFIX and along the lines of what I have mentioned in the original post I made above this one.

[N_for_Ninja]

Gee kid you don't give up! I see ur point man but you have to look at it this way! Game is still in development all that shit can still change, yeah Im a little disappointed at some of the shit that they have done, but im gonna wait and not critasize cause the game is still underdevelopment. My point of view is, that I was hoping for something more fast pace like FF XIII but it's not. It's FF XI but with better graphics, and yeah switching jobs in the game kinda makes the game to easy but idk it may change so give it time man.

[Metticus]

Hmmm you remind me of those types of people on onemanga.com that writes fanfics and tries to pass them off as spoilers for my favorite mangas.

[Demoncrest]

Hmmm you remind me of those types of people on onemanga.com that writes fanfics and tries to pass them off as spoilers for my favorite mangas.

Haha, I only provide what my mind is formulating here, and what I hope will be spoilers that are currently ahead of their time lol.

Eh, I keep up to date with everything that is going on and I just hope that with all the hype FFXIV has at least with me that they don't try to make something so different that it screws some things over. Like I said I am basically wetting myself in excitement yet also tearing myself up on the inside because I don't want to see something weird come out as a new idea for FFXIV that SE is trying to push lol. I am 90% sure that they know what they are doing and what they can change and tweak around without losing touch with their fanbase


PS: Not to worry, I am not one of those idiotic 10 year old kids yelling OMFG I LIEK MAGES HOPEFULLY PURPLE MAGE IS A NEW CLASS!!! THAT AND CHOCOBO KNIGHTS!!! AWESOME! lol


Also,

Gee kid you don't give up! I see ur point man but you have to look at it this way! Game is still in development all that shit can still change, yeah Im a little disappointed at some of the shit that they have done, but im gonna wait and not critasize cause the game is still underdevelopment

Yeah haha, I don't ease up only because I feel this will at least open a discussion for everyone and who knows, even in a longshot start up some huge topic that everyone gets their thoughts on and contributes which eventually SE may look at for material in what the community is looking for in FFXIV .

I look at it the same way as you though, by all means I am not harping on the game before it's even beta lol, it's pointless since so much can change but there is still a meaning to expressing how I feel about it as of now lol. At this point all most people are doing is b*tching about how this looks weird or that idea is stupid haha, I'm just giving suggestions, ideas, and constructive criticism on whats known to this point


My brain interprets the ideas, my dreams sync them together, and my voice spreads the word ... so yeah, more to come from my thoughts as more info is released~!

[Agena]

My brain interprets the ideas, my dreams sync them together, and my voice spreads the word ... so yeah, more to come from my thoughts as more info is released~!

You're special you know that?

[Demoncrest]

You're special you know that?

Show me the love

[Demoncrest]

Soso, upon more thought and slight boredom I just felt like making a more complete list of the possible paths which the various weapons would follow! Please also reply with anything I may have missed or else suggestions on what could be a possibility!


anything asterisked is just an complete guess or idea.

The tough part about doing this is that some jobs are associated with using more than one type of weapon for example DRK from FFXI could be efficient using either Scythes or 2-Handed swords as well... for that reason I will just list the more not "cliche" weapon for the class as "???"

More obvious ones first:

Falchion/Sabre's -> Path of the Blue Mage
Sword & Shield -> Path of the Paladin
Fencing Swords -> Path of the Red Mage
Daggers -> Path of the Thief
Claws/Knuckles -> Path of the Monk
Scythes -> Path of the Dark Knight
Katana -> Path of the Ninja
Great Katana -> Path of the Samurai
Lances/Spears -> Path of The Dragoon
Musical Instruments -> Path of the Bard

Uncertain for a specific class, or else on what weapon the class skills would come from

2-Handed Swords -> ??? (Gladiator?)
**Whips -> Path of the Dancer

Some things that this makes me think about is if certain things will conflict. For example, WHM's are known for using Hammers/Maces in FFXI, yet in other FF titles, such as Tactics, Green Mages use them. If SE is thinking of introducing Green Magic as a catagory, which for some reason I have the hunch that they will since FFXII had it as it's own catagory so they may just carry that over. If they ever decide to add Geomancer's as well, that would also complicate with hammers. To me this would make the weapon listings something like the following:

Axes -> Path of the BeastMaster / **Geomancer
Maces -> Path of the Green Mage
1H Staves/Rods -> Path of the White Mage
2H Staves/Rods -> Path of the Black Mage

... as far as Summoners go, I am a bit tired to think more deeply on this lol....


****I am going to post this as incomplete since I have to go out right now to have an epic night on the town, but feel free to add to anything such as missed classes. (I know I missed Scholar etc etc... no time must go lol)****


Or else just comment, or even tell me how useless this may be since they could soon reveal more in depth what the details of the Armory system is and how it works and my theories will look stupid

Thanks all! Will be back later!!!!

[rambus]

They said it is going to be jobless, the only thing i can come up with them using a system like FFIX / FFXII.

you will equip a weapon for a while to learn an ability, even while learning it you can equip it but loose that ability when you change gear till you permently learn it ( FFIX) there will be a limit of abilites you can "equip" costing a different amount of points. if you never played IX picture blu with traits this on top of there might be some "unlocking" system like FFXII with lisinance ( they said something about getting them from a "guild"

by the way your sounding it would take more time to "level" then what SE intends.

in FFIX your power was linked more with gear then with actall level, level in that game did not do much but boost your hp, mp and ability points. equipping select gear boosted how your base stats would level ( small amount it was like fractions of a point, you only see maybe extra point of increase after wairing something for about 10 levels or more). DEF and your attack was more related to the weapon damage and gear used then your actual level effecting things.

[Demoncrest]

They said it is going to be jobless, the only thing i can come up with them using a system like FFIX [...]

I understand it's jobless, which makes me lol at the people starting threads like "What jobs/classes do you want in FFXIV", so yeah I will take that as a general reply not directed at me or something . The only time when I would tie a so call "class" to anything is just since you open up abilities with certain weapons aka like I would classify it learning GKT abilities pretty much labels you a "samurai" ... and as FFXIV said there will be certain Titles gained when growing further along each path !

you will equip a weapon for a while to learn an ability, even while learning it you can equip it but loose that ability when you change gear till you permently learn it ( FFIX) there will be a limit of abilites you can "equip" costing a different amount of points. [...]

exactly like how I see it! To me how they even showed in the Guild Leve screenshots where it is noting "BP" as a reward, that tells me it will be exactly like we say, an Abilty Point system where each type of equipment has "class" skills (again in quotes since they could be catagorized as x and y skills being BLM skills etc. lol).

Hopefully it will be an ability point system learning various skills from various ewuipment... I can just picture how awesome it would be !

[rambus]

I understand it's jobless, which makes me lol at the people starting threads like "What jobs/classes do you want in FFXIV", so yeah I will take that as a general reply not directed at me or something . The only time when I would tie a so call "class" to anything is just since you open up abilities with certain weapons aka like I would classify it learning GKT abilities pretty much labels you a "samurai" ... and as FFXIV said there will be certain Titles gained when growing further along each path !



exactly like how I see it! To me how they even showed in the Guild Leve screenshots where it is noting "BP" as a reward, that tells me it will be exactly like we say, an Abilty Point system where each type of equipment has "class" skills (again in quotes since they could be catagorized as x and y skills being BLM skills etc. lol).

Hopefully it will be an ability point system learning various skills from various ewuipment... I can just picture how awesome it would be !

ya i really did not get your path upgrages unless you have a pre reque for some like say you need to equip a staff to learn fire , thunder , etc , once you learn those you can equip a mage staff to learn fira ( fire II ) , if you equip a mage staff before learning fire, you can't learn fira. a bit off topic but i miss that as well fire II is so lame , where is fira, oh yay they put cura so late in game lol, i swore a game had a 4th cure like curaja or something, maybe im nuts

I think having pre reque would be in place to prevent just plain weird things, like you equip a GKT to play sam like while equiping the enitre thunder serius of spells ( like have all the thunder spells but thats it) to allow spending on cure spells.

you play FFIX? thats how that game works, it is really a neat game

[_Tarel_]

I also dislike the fact you basically have to switch main weapons (outside of battle only) in order to use cure or any other magic related spells while soloing in the Fighter class. I used to think the same way you do about how the spells/abilities are gained, once you master it it should be yours to use whenever. The way I speculate it based on many things they've said even if you learn cure(just an example) by "leveling up" your character with a rod, if you were to switch to another weapon like a staff, you'd still have your cure spell avalible for use only because the staff corresponds to the same sorcery-class type weapon. However, switching to a Great Katana would make your spells dissapear(whether you've fully mastered them or not) seeing as that type of weapon belongs to the Fighter class.

This job system is supposed to be more advanced, and in many aspects it is, but what I dislike about it is the whole "jump to sorcery-class weapon" thing in order to cast a simple curing spell-

[_Tarel_]

[double post due to limited writing space, on PS3 atm]
and it must be done outside of battle... That's why I'm starting to get the idea that armor may also hold spells in addition to different types of abilities(and job traits?). When you look at their system that way you could see XIV through XIs basic job style: Weapon = Main job, Armor = Sub job. I hope it'll be something like this anyways.

[rambus]

[double post due to limited writing space, on PS3 atm]
and it must be done outside of battle... That's why I'm starting to get the idea that armor may also hold spells in addition to different types of abilities(and job traits?). When you look at their system that way you could see XIV through XIs basic job style: Weapon = Main job, Armor = Sub job. I hope it'll be something like this anyways.

oh no, ps3 limitations!

[Demoncrest]

I also dislike the fact you basically have to switch main weapons (outside of battle only) in order to use cure or any other magic related spells while soloing in the Fighter class.

Yeah this doesn't make sense to me either... think of it in FFXI content. When you solo you can just sub a healing class to give yourself cures and reduce downtime while soloing and increasing survivability as well.

The FFXIV version restricting these things to weapons will be interesting and as much faith I have that SE will make it ownage I have equally as much concern that it may turn out to be a screw up lol...

What this means anyways since we will want cures while soloing, we would have to switch to a weapon with white magic (cures) enabled on it...BUT WAIT! You can't switch weapons in battle... so that means you won't have access to cures until after battle... to me this is useless. Sure it reduces downtime which is a good thing, but soloing would be a biatch without being able to cure yourself, you would only be able to fight the things u can kill without regaining any HP.

Even if they were to change it to you ARE able to switch weapons in battle, I think that would be pretty stupid as well since every macro would involve swapping in a staff, casting cure, and then swapping back your melee weapon ... sure we gear swapped in FFXI but I mean all that just to cast a simple cure on yourself lol????


This is the point where I am hoping it's like FFIX where in the beginning you will have to keep that item equipped to cast cure from it, but when u gain enough points to master/learn the skill from the weapon then you will have it available with whatever you are using (since there would be so many abilities and spells to learn, if this is the case I am guessing they would have an ability equipping screen so you can only activate a certain amount of your learned skills at a time)

you play FFIX? thats how that game works, it is really a neat game

played FF series since Final Fantasy Adventure on Gameboy lol ... and yeah... that's where I am getting the AP system from, IX and Tactics.

[treelo]

Hate to break this to you, but the few examples SE have given about the "armoury" system has involved swapping equipment, not weapons, to change your job/playing style. Likewise they have suggested that mixing various styles of armour will create hybrid jobs capable of fulfilling more than one role.

Weapons will probably play a similar role to that found in FFXI. Skilling up will unlock the various weaponskills/combat abilities, equipping certain pieces of equipment to match your job to the weapon improves your effectiveness and provides you with the "job specific" abilities like Berserk, Souleater, whatever.

Without any specific information about any equipment it's impossible to make a judgement on how things will work, we have no prior experience with a system of this nature. I'm struggling to think of a single game where the equipment decides your job rather than your job deciding your equipment.

[Velhart]

Hate to break this to you, but the few examples SE have given about the "armoury" system has involved swapping equipment, not weapons, to change your job/playing style. Likewise they have suggested that mixing various styles of armour will create hybrid jobs capable of fulfilling more than one role.

Weapons will probably play a similar role to that found in FFXI. Skilling up will unlock the various weaponskills/combat abilities, equipping certain pieces of equipment to match your job to the weapon improves your effectiveness and provides you with the "job specific" abilities like Berserk, Souleater, whatever.

Without any specific information about any equipment it's impossible to make a judgement on how things will work, we have no prior experience with a system of this nature. I'm struggling to think of a single game where the equipment decides your job rather than your job deciding your equipment.

Sounds like what we do now, just a bit more detailed.

[rambus]

Hate to break this to you, but the few examples SE have given about the "armoury" system has involved swapping equipment, not weapons, to change your job/playing style. Likewise they have suggested that mixing various styles of armour will create hybrid jobs capable of fulfilling more than one role.

Weapons will probably play a similar role to that found in FFXI. Skilling up will unlock the various weaponskills/combat abilities, equipping certain pieces of equipment to match your job to the weapon improves your effectiveness and provides you with the "job specific" abilities like Berserk, Souleater, whatever.

Without any specific information about any equipment it's impossible to make a judgement on how things will work, we have no prior experience with a system of this nature. I'm struggling to think of a single game where the equipment decides your job rather than your job deciding your equipment.

FFIX and FFXII

FFIX had set jobs but you " learn" job traits, abilities and magic from equiping select gear for an extanded mount of time, if you have not learned the ability yet you could use it as long as you had the gear equiped

FFXII allowed your "tank" to become a mage by gear changing, you could have your PLD like chr equip a bunch of cloth gear and such cast a nuke, then go back to melee. chaning "jobs" like that is what annoyied me about the game , made ti too easy that everyone could be anything so early but FFXII had such a system.

granted you still had the spells regardless of gear but they where weak, like nukes, unless you changed to mage gear.

it is also possable you might have enchments for gear, like WoWs thing or our agurments ( it is possible they thow this system so late was to have more experiment for FFXIV), I will be shocked if the system is way different then the ideas im thowing out, im sure it would have some basis on it

[Jurojin]

This reminds me of Redmane12

[Agena]

I'm not interested in this sort of job class at all.